Penguins sign Carcillo to tryout contract

[jammer2]

@B21   I will be cheering for Car-bomb to make the final cut.......GOOOOOOO CARBOMB!!!  He is a secret weapon in the enemy camp. He still reports to Snider ....

[flyercanuck]

@jammer2

 

Imagine playing the Pens and skating by Carcillo and Letang and having both of them doing the whiplash thing to the refs? 

[nossagog]

@B21   I will be cheering for Car-bomb to make the final cut.......GOOOOOOO CARBOMB!!!  He is a secret weapon in the enemy camp. He still reports to Snider ....

Okay that settles it, if he makes the opening night roster, I'm drinking Irish Car Bombs for the night.

[mojo1917]

@jammer2

 

Imagine playing the Pens and skating by Carcillo and Letang and having both of them doing the whiplash thing to the refs?

It is amost too perfect...Make it happen new no name Pens coach! The league needs to see tandem whiplash, it could be judged like figure skating and used in lieu of the shoot out to break ties. I am excited by this possibility !

[flyercanuck]

@mojo1917

 

It would be like being at the worlds smallest metal concert.

[Vanflyer]

Oh, look at my other post... Rutherford is an idiot and I think is going to be a short term failure for the Pens.  I agree but at the same time Mario was the most vocal about those types of players while employing some of the worst offenders - so yes, I would say he is a hypocrite.   I dont think you will find many Flyers fans loving Ed either but the fact remains Mario comes across looking a bit two-sided on the issue.  

 

100% correct (and I also agree with Polaris on his points). The thing is that Mario is in fact a hypocrite. I have never been so disappointed in what i regard as perhaps the 2nd best center to ever play the game. This is not a Flyers / Pens thing. This is a Mario thing. He blasts away at the NHL for latency of protection and BS hits. But then employs the exact kind of players that he despises. 

 

For me, I could give a rats arse on who he employs- its his team and his right to make a team that can win. What chaffs me is that he pisses and moans about cheap shot artists gunning for his stars. Malkin and Crosby are extreme talents, but neither are angels. I actually respect that. You want to be a hockey player- play like a hockey player. Both players do BS stuff- as they should because the are runned at all the time. 

 

I think the Pens took a huge step back this upcoming year and wasted a year of two of the best players in the worlds talents in doing so. I say that as a hockey fan and not a Flyers fan. 

[B21]

@B21   I will be cheering for Car-bomb to make the final cut.......GOOOOOOO CARBOMB!!!  He is a secret weapon in the enemy camp. He still reports to Snider ....

 

LOL.  In all seriousness, he's an AHL body.  I don't see him beating out anyone for an opening night roster spot.  Harry Z - The Sequel.

[Polaris922]

Hypocritical? Or just giving up on the hopes that the league will protect its stars? Perspective is everything.

This is an interesting albeit vulgar take on it....

http://thepensblog.com/2014-archives/proteautype-produces-woefully-horrid-article-calls-mario-lemiuex-a-hypocrite.html

[B21]

Hypocritical? Or just giving up on the hopes that the league will protect its stars? Perspective is everything.

This is an interesting albeit vulgar take on it....

http://thepensblog.com/2014-archives/proteautype-produces-woefully-horrid-article-calls-mario-lemiuex-a-hypocrite.html

 

Bingo.  If you can't beat them, join them.  I hate the Downies and Carcillos of the world - but if that is what it takes to "protect" our stars? So be it.

[flyercanuck]

Bingo.  If you can't beat them, join them.  I hate the Downies and Carcillos of the world - but if that is what it takes to "protect" our stars? So be it.

 

Join them? A team that has employed two of the dirtiest players in the league over the past 7 or 8 years isn't "joining" anything. They're already full blown members driving the bus.

[B21]

Join them? A team that has employed two of the dirtiest players in the league over the past 7 or 8 years isn't "joining" anything. They're already full blown members driving the bus.

 

The same team who traded away one for pennies on the dollar and did not resign the other even after he had appeared to "reform".  Both of those guys played for other teams prior to the Pens and had teams willing to take them on after the Pens were done with them.  Lets not make this seam like every other NHL team is full of choir boys.

[flyercanuck]

@B21

 

Uh, I'm not. It's Mario.... and you guys saying if you can't beat em join em. The Pens (including some of it's star players) are as dirty as any team. But pretend they're somehow above that type of play. Malkin is one of the dirtiest elite players in the league. And before you say look at all the abuse poor Geno and Sidney take, are you telling me Giroux doesn't, Stamkos, Toews, etc etc? Yet they're not throwing elbows like Mr. Malkin. And if that's the way he's going to play, fine. Just stop with the Pens holier than thou crap.. It's laughable.

 

Oh and Cooke "appeared" to reform....not appeared to "reform". He's still a dirty cheapshotting gutless punk trying to injure his fellow NHLPA members.

[B21]

@B21

 

Uh, I'm not. It's Mario.... and you guys saying if you can't beat em join em. The Pens (including some of it's star players) are as dirty as any team. But pretend they're somehow above that type of play. Malkin is one of the dirtiest elite players in the league. And before you say look at all the abuse poor Geno and Sidney take, are you telling me Giroux doesn't, Stamkos, Toews, etc etc? Yet they're not throwing elbows like Mr. Malkin. And if that's the way he's going to play, fine. Just stop with the Pens holier than thou crap.. It's laughable.

 

Oh and Cooke "appeared" to reform....not appeared to "reform". He's still a dirty cheapshotting gutless punk trying to injure his fellow NHLPA members.

 

Not getting into a Cooke debate but he had been "clean" since his "talking to" until he left the Pens.  That was what  - 2 seasons? And to act like Mario is the only owner to complain about this kind of thing is nonsense.  It bigger news because he's Mario.  Period.

 

The Neal and Cooke comparisons are off anyway...kinda.   The Pens didn't sign Cooke and trade for Neal to come in and be dirty players or to protect Crosby or to intentionally target the other team's best player.  They signed Neal to be a top 6 winger for Crosby (and eventually Malkin) and brought in Cooke to be a 3rd line checker and top PK guy.  Guys like Downie and Carcillo tend to serve one purpose and one alone. Hence: Can't beat them? Join them.   

 

It took too long but Cooke got his ultimatum and Neal was dealt for less than fair market value - I'm sure in no small part because of the kind of player he (Neal) had become. My hunch is there are few examples of a team dealing a 40 goal scorer because of his dirty play.  Except the Pens did.  The Pens got no cap relief from that deal and got lesser players back.  What else should they have done with Neal? Sat him? Outright released him? When has any NHL ever done something along those lines?

 

The Canucks hung onto Bertuzzi after the Dominic Moore incident.

Chris Simon - arguably the worst offender of all time - managed to play for 8 different teams in spite of his rap sheet. 

Cooke found work elsewhere.

The Flyers brought back Downie.

 

None of them being better players than Neal.

 

Hmmm.

 

Has "hypocritical" Mario ever complained about a suspension for a Pens player being unfair?  I can name quite a few owners who have.

 

I also recall him being quoted as being "embarassed" by the Neal/Asham incidents in that series with the Flyers.

 

Bringing in guys like Downie and Carcillo do not make him a hypocrite.  Putting up with the kind of play from them that he despises would. Downie is on a 1-year deal and Carcillo is on a tryout contract and almost certainly headed for the AHL.  That does not a hypocrite make. Let's see how things play out before judgement is passed.

[flyercanuck]

@B21

 

I don't have a problem with the Pens bringing in whoever they want. Cooke was regarded as arguably the leagues dirtiest player while a Pen. Neal was regarded right up there as a Pen. Malkin throws elbows as bad as anyone. I'd just like to see people affiliated with the Penguins stop the bs "we're just trying to protect our stars" when the team is as dirty as anyone else...INCLUDING some of it's stars.

 

As for pennies on the dollar in the trade, isn't that a "time will tell" scenario? Neal is hardly a "great" player. He's a shooter who benefitted from playing on a team with 2 first line centers. The pennies you acquired for him never had ONE top line center, as far as talent goes. Neal could well end up the lesser scorer out of this, we'll see.

[B21]

@B21

 

I don't have a problem with the Pens bringing in whoever they want. Cooke was regarded as arguably the leagues dirtiest player while a Pen. Neal was regarded right up there as a Pen. Malkin throws elbows as bad as anyone. I'd just like to see people affiliated with the Penguins stop the bs "we're just trying to protect our stars" when the team is as dirty as anyone else...INCLUDING some of it's stars.

 

As for pennies on the dollar in the trade, isn't that a "time will tell" scenario? Neal is hardly a "great" player. He's a shooter who benefitted from playing on a team with 2 first line centers. The pennies you acquired for him never had ONE top line center, as far as talent goes. Neal could well end up the lesser scorer out of this, we'll see.

 

See - the Pens have said and done the exact opposite.  If the Cookes and Neals of the world were there to "protect" stars - why were they not resigned/traded and guys like Downie and Carcillo brought in especially considering the Pens main goal this offseason (by far) was to get tougher and to get players to protect their stars??  I'm not arguing that Neal and Cooke were not dirty players but protecting the Pens stars was not at all part of their job description.  They were players with various skills sets who (at the risk of sounding like I am minimizing what they did) just happened to be dirty players as well.

 

Downie and Carcillo? Not so much.  Sure - Downie had his best offensive season under Tocchet. But do we really think the Pens signed him because of his (cough cough) scoring abilities? And again - Downie is on a 1-year deal. Carcillo a try-out deal.  In other words, any shenanigans and it's bye-bye.  Or - in other words - not hypocritical of Mario.

 

And again - in the end, the Pens did not put up with them.  Sure - they took too long with Cooke but I ask the same question. What team has just cut bait with a player because of dirty play?

 

None.  Not even Bertuzzi and Simon.  Maybe the Yotes not resigning Torres after the Hossa hit? The closest example I can think of is the Bruins not bringing back McSorley after the assault on Brashear and even that is iffy.  He was suspended for over a year and was almost 40 when the suspension ended. Doesn't really count.

 

As for the Neal trade - sure, time will tell on that one.  Until it does, all I have to go on are the stat sheets and at the moment that means Nashville "won" that trade.  If Neal was a choir boy - are the Pens really trading him for Hornquist and Spaling? Absolutely not. Bottom line is that on the Pens, Neal was a 40 goal guy which in today's NHL makes you a "star" (not Crosby or Giroux star). Pennies on the dollar was hyperbole to make a point..I'll give you quarters on the dollar for now.

[B21]

@flyercanuck

 

An I am purposely ignoring the Malkin elbows.    Malkin - love or hate him - is the rare skilled player who tries to stick up for himself. Those elbows are almost all retaliatory. Not that it justifies them but still.

 

To quote Chris Rock on O.J. - "I'm not saying he shoulda killed her....but I understand."

 

Malkin plays with an edge and I have noooooooooooooo problem with it. He's not the only star that does.

[mojo1917]

Downie is an okay hockey player, he is strong on the puck and thinks the game pretty well, he's not the best skater and that may be a problem for him in Pgh.  He is pretty good along the boards and can be a nice cog in the cycle game.  

 

I think he is a case where his reputation from jr and the beginning of his career hampers his image.  What did he do last year for the Flyers that awful ?  he got his ass kicked by the Caps goon , came back from his concussion too early and never played his physical game effectively after that....he still takes the odd stupid penalty but I really don't think of him and Carcillo in the same instance. 

 

I don't think the 1 year deal for Downie was a bad move at all and i don't think Mario's signing him makes him a hypocrite.  He plays with an edge but he has shown in the past to have top 6 skill too.  I don't want him to be "great" for the Pens but I can see where he'd be signed and have value as a hockey player too.

[flyercanuck]

I guess we can go back and forth til the cows come home.

 

 Cooke was a member of the Pens, and the leagues reigning dirtiest player, while Mario was whining about other teams taking cheapshots at his stars. What about his players taking cheapshots at other teams stars? Neal, same thing. And he doesn't even HAVE to play that way...he's just a nutjob. Sure the Pens got rid of both. And so has every other team in the league eventually with their dirty players. (using that analogy the Flyers must really be squeaky clean, they got rid of Downie TWICE  ) The fact is, they had one super dirty player, then another and when they get rid of them they bring in Carcillo. So pretending that they're trying to play it clean while employing that lot is IMO hilarious. 

 

And no, Malkins elbows arent almost always retalitory. He throws elbows if things arent going his way. Sometimes it's because someone did something to him...sometimes it's cause he just feels like it. He's not the only great player who does it, but he is one of them.

[Podein25]

Those elbows are almost all retaliatory.

 

LMAO. So were Bobby Clarke's spears!! 

[B21]

I guess we can go back and forth til the cows come home.

 

 Cooke was a member of the Pens, and the leagues reigning dirtiest player, while Mario was whining about other teams taking cheapshots at his stars. What about his players taking cheapshots at other teams stars? Neal, same thing. And he doesn't even HAVE to play that way...he's just a nutjob. Sure the Pens got rid of both. And so has every other team in the league eventually with their dirty players. (using that analogy the Flyers must really be squeaky clean, they got rid of Downie TWICE  ) The fact is, they had one super dirty player, then another and when they get rid of them they bring in Carcillo. So pretending that they're trying to play it clean while employing that lot is IMO hilarious. 

 

And no, Malkins elbows arent almost always retalitory. He throws elbows if things arent going his way. Sometimes it's because someone did something to him...sometimes it's cause he just feels like it. He's not the only great player who does it, but he is one of them.

 

Mooooooooooo.

 

Missing my point. Then Pens got rid of Neal because of his dirty play.  Unless you have another reason the Pens traded away a PPG player getting less than market value in return?  Any other NHL team ever do that?  I also think that was part of the reason they didn't try harder to resing Cooke (cap issues as well).

 

When you trade away your dirtiest player (Neal) and chose not to resign the other - in part (i/m/h/o) - because of his history you are not a hypocrite just because you then bring in a Downie or a Carcillo on low risk contracts. Only point I am trying to make.

 

I'll agree to disagree on Malkin. It's no secret that it's easy to get under his skin (with legal and illegal hits).  His retaliation is usually the elbow. More often than not retaliating for something illegal done to him.  I watch more Pens games than you.

[B21]

LMAO. So were Bobby Clarke's spears!! 

 

So we agree then.  Both are OK.

[flyercanuck]

Mooooooooooo.

 

See, that's why I like you

 

Missing my point. Then Pens got rid of Neal because of his dirty play.  Unless you have another reason the Pens traded away a PPG player getting less than market value in return?  Any other NHL team ever do that?  I also think that was part of the reason they didn't try harder to resing Cooke (cap issues as well).

 

Ya, you got me there. I doubt it's ever happened where a team traded a ppg player and didn't get a great return on it....honestly, I think you guys traded Neal cause his boneheadedc penalties were costing you games. 

 

When you trade away your dirtiest player (Neal) and chose not to resign the other - in part (i/m/h/o) - because of his history you are not a hypocrite just because you then bring in a Downie or a Carcillo on low risk contracts. Only point I am trying to make.

 

Yes you are.  

 

I'll agree to disagree on Malkin. It's no secret that it's easy to get under his skin (with legal and illegal hits).  His retaliation is usually the elbow. More often than not retaliating for something illegal done to him.  I watch more Pens games than you.

 

But I watch them without my baby blue Sidney Crosby collector edition 3D glasses on.

[Polaris922]

Malkin rarely takes a penalty for going after anybody unless he's being beaten on. No tinted glasses needed to see that, just a clear tv screen. To label him dirty is wearing a different shade of tinted glasses... More on the orange side of the spectrum...

Downie is annoying but has potential. Carcillo? That one I don't get.

The Pens should be tired of trying to do right only to be wronged. Most Flyers fans won't understand that because if the emotion in the rivalry. But they DID correct Cooke for two seasons. They did go after Neal and then when he SCREWED up one more time, dealt him for less than value.

They've tried the clean approach and been beaten up for it. Flyers fans won't see that because its too easy to hate on. But anyone who actually watches the Pens regularly knows it to be true.

I hate Carcillo. Bring back Goddard.

(Edit: sorry it was SCREWED UP, not "s reward" lol)

[flyercanuck]

Malkin rarely takes a penalty for going after anybody unless he's being beaten on. No tinted glasses needed to see that, just a clear tv screen. To label him dirty is wearing a different shade of tinted glasses... More on the orange side of the spectrum...

Downie is annoying but has potential. Carcillo? That one I don't get.

The Pens should be tired of trying to do right only to be wronged. Most Flyers fans won't understand that because if the emotion in the rivalry. But they DID correct Cooke for two seasons. They did go after Neal and then when he s reward up one more time, dealt him for less than value.

They've tried the clean approach and been beaten up for it. Flyers fans won't see that because its too easy to hate on. But anyone who actually watches the Pens regularly knows it to be true.

I hate Carcillo. Bring back Goddard.

 

 

So in your opinion Malkin and Carcillo aren't dirty? 

 

Can I get your idea of the term?

[Polaris922]

So in your opinion Malkin and Carcillo aren't dirty?

Can I get your idea of the term?

In my opinion Malkin is not. He doesn't throw cheap shots and stuff any more or less than anyone but your lady byng candidates. Does he get edgy in some games? Yes. Do the Flyers crosscheck and abuse him to bring that out and get his mind off scoring? Absolutely. But that's hardly dirty.

Nowhere in my post do I say Carcillo isn't dirty. He's a piece of shyte and belongs in Flyers orange not Penguins gold. I hope he never sees a single minute with the Pens. I don't get why they signed him. It only convinces me Rutherford is a bigger idiot than I originally though.