hextall has to get his own coach

[radoran]

Hitch was the wrong coach for that team.

 

You spelled "Laviolette" wrong

[King Knut]

B-A-R-B-E-R

How else can you spell it?

You spelled "Laviolette" wrong

[Bakanekimiwa]

That much?? Sorry, but I can skate in on warm-ups and practice my dekes all day long.

 

What do you think happens on a penalty shot??

 

10-15 pts due to shoot outs lost??? Show me the evidence that supports that claim.

 

Exactly this^ I don't get it, that's the first thing me and my teammates would do when our goalie entered the crease, start running breakaways on him before peppering him with shots the rest of the way. Maybe that wasn't nice, but there's your breakaway time right there... pre-game warmups. Why does the condition of the ice matter that much to Berube? that's a confusing statement to make. 

 

I think he basically does not want to discuss any type of coaching strategy with the press, and really... who would? It's insulting, pretentious and condescending for a member of the press to suggest where he should spend his time coaching the team. 

[Vanflyer]

The Capitals, Maple Leafs and Islanders finished in the top 5 in shootout wins last year. They did not make the playoffs. Bruins, Flyers, Ducks, Stars, Rangers, 4th through 8th fewest shootout wins, all made the playoffs. It's not Hockey and needs to go.

 

I think it would be interesting to see (if even provable) how many additional fans the NHL (or any league) generated since implementing the shootout.

 

While seemingly gimmicky, I like the new rules in the AHL Its not as gimmicky as the shootout.

 

I also do remember pre-shootout when both teams would turtle once in OT, just contented to get the 1pt.

 

Truthfully, what I would do is go back to those days. The difference would be instead of an automatic 1pt for each team to make it to OT, I would change that if you lose in OT, you lose that point / if you win in OT you get the 2 pts. There has to be some sort of a carrot for teams to want to compete at that juncture.

[AJgoal]

Truthfully, what I would do is go back to those days. The difference would be instead of an automatic 1pt for each team to make it to OT, I would change that if you lose in OT, you lose that point / if you win in OT you get the 2 pts. There has to be some sort of a carrot for teams to want to compete at that juncture.

 

But that in itself is a new rule. Used to be if you lost in OT, you lost. No points. That changed in the 96-97 season, I think.

[OccamsRazor]

I say by the 12-15th game if there isn't a dramatic improvement Hextall may be forced to show Berube the door. Not saying its right or wrong. But he may be forced from unseen pressure *cough* Snider*cough*......if they continue to slide something will have to change.

They said they were not going to rush the young so that only leaves Berube left.

[murraycraven]

I say by the 12-15th game if there isn't a dramatic improvement Hextall may be forced to show Berube the door. Not saying its right or wrong. But he may be forced from unseen pressure *cough* Snider*cough*......if they continue to slide something will have to change.

They said they were not going to rush the young so that only leaves Berube left.

I am thinking the same thing. If this keeps up Hextall might be forced into the decision.

Although, my trust in Berube is dwindling. All we ever hear is skate hard and pressure the puck. I am not sure what his system is... For all the talk about he being a defense first coach it certainly does not show on the ice.

Then again I cringe to think of who they might bring in.

[radoran]

All we ever hear is skate hard and pressure the puck. I am not sure what his system is... For all the talk about he being a defense first coach it certainly does not show on the ice.

 

Where did Berube get a "defense-first" label? He was the power play coach under Laviolette.

 

It is disturbingly Barberesque watching this team out there. Especially when up against a top flight coach like Quenneville. The Blackhawks were skating circles around the Flyers and the team has no counter to it at all. For the life of me, I can't see even the merest hint of a "system" being employed. Players continue to do thing that I can only assume are what the coach wants - because they keep doing it.

 

The whole "skate hard/work harder" thing isn't coaching.

[murraycraven]

Where did Berube get a "defense-first" label? He was the power play coach under Laviolette.

 

It is disturbingly Barberesque watching this team out there. Especially when up against a top flight coach like Quenneville. The Blackhawks were skating circles around the Flyers and the team has no counter to it at all. For the life of me, I can't see even the merest hint of a "system" being employed. Players continue to do thing that I can only assume are what the coach wants - because they keep doing it.

 

The whole "skate hard/work harder" thing isn't coaching.

 

 

That is what I was trying to get at...   Every presser you see The Cheif speak is the same and that is fine if that is how he plays the media.  But when adjustments are not made on the ice it appears the "system" is really all not there.   I am not sure what the "system" is here.   At least w/ Lavy you knew he was going to run and gun but w/ Berube I am not really sure what they are trying to do.  Every good Coach is going to figure out a way to play against a system but a good Coach also knows how to play against different systems when needed.  

 

It is all very confusing...  Give me a few million and I will telll them they need to "skate hard, keep thier feet moving and pressure the puck."   For pete's sake that is what you Coach at the Mite level.

[Bakanekimiwa]

I cannot begin to evaluate Berube as a coach because I have exactly ZERO knowledge of what is going on there behind the scenes. Quenville sure does look good... but let's not forget, he's got quite a talented team there. Berube does not. That alone can make any man behind the bench look good. The talent on CHI is really quite incredible. That was a men against the boys scenario last night. 

 

I believe CHI will strongly contend for the cup this year... in fact, they are my pick to win it all. Let's not lose sight of the fact that we may have just played the best team in the league right now. Sure they got their A-holes handed to them, but using it as a barometer for where the Flyers need to go... we're a long way away. And.. we need some of CHI's luck. I mean.. getting Kane at all was a coup. Landing Toews, what?, the very next year!? Then you watch the young guys they have coming up... Saad... TVR!? 

 

Basically, it's borderline just plain unfair. 

[radoran]

I cannot begin to evaluate Berube as a coach because I have exactly ZERO knowledge of what is going on there behind the scenes. Quenville sure does look good... but let's not forget, he's got quite a talented team there. Berube does not.

 

I'm not trying to "bash Berube" - I'm looking at how his team is playing on the ice. And, quite frankly, it stinks so far this season.

 

The Flyers aren't exactly hurting for talent. Giroux, LSchenn, BSchenn, Voarcek and Couturier were all fairly recent first round picks - and all of them except G (22nd) were top 10. Mason won the Calder. Simmonds was a 2. Hell, Umburglar was a 1 at some point in the distant past

 

But then you have undrafted FAs Read, Bellemare, Raffl, Akeson - how many times can they go to that well?

 

And the blue line is an obvious disaster.

 

I put the vast majority of the blame onto the GM that constructed this roster - and that's Paul Holmgren.

 

But the onus is on the coach to put players in positions to succeed regardless. I look at a Buffalo and at least I see some inklings of what Nolan is trying to do even though the "talent" they have can't execute it effectively. I don't see that on the Flyers.

 

The onus is on the coach to take a player who makes boneheaded plays and turnovers and floats at the blue line instead of backchecking (*cough* Brayden Schenn *cough*), sit him down, say "you're scratched tonight because you're not doing what I'm telling you to do and if when I put you back in the lineup next game and you still don't do what I tell you, you're going back to the press box."

 

The onus is on the coach who decides to play a 29yo rookie winger at center for the first time in his career - on the second line.

 

The onus is on the coach who decides to put Nick Schultz out for half of the final two minutes of a game and then 1/3 of overtime. Nick Schultz shouldn't ever be on the ice in overtime - or, arguably, at all.

 

I'm not blaming Berube for "all of it" - but I am willing to say that his "management" has left a lot to be desired regardless of the "talent" he has.

 

And I'm certainly not basing this all on one game against Chicago.

[briere48]

Where did Berube get a "defense-first" label? He was the power play coach under Laviolette.

 

It is disturbingly Barberesque watching this team out there. Especially when up against a top flight coach like Quenneville. The Blackhawks were skating circles around the Flyers and the team has no counter to it at all. For the life of me, I can't see even the merest hint of a "system" being employed. Players continue to do thing that I can only assume are what the coach wants - because they keep doing it.

 

The whole "skate hard/work harder" thing isn't coaching.

 

 

berube is not a defensive coach, if you look at Quenneville, he's a defensive coach because if you look at his career, he was a defensemen, berube is not a defensemen, he was a winger/energy guy and that's not what this team needs. they need someone that's a defense first professional coach and nows how to put players in postion to win games, is it me or does berube coaches like andy reid putting players out of postion?

[pilldoc]

, is it me or does berube coaches like andy reid putting players out of postion?

 

Brilliant...that is probably the best analogy I have seen yet!

[Bakanekimiwa]

I'm not trying to "bash Berube" - I'm looking at how his team is playing on the ice. And, quite frankly, it stinks so far this season.

 

The Flyers aren't exactly hurting for talent. Giroux, LSchenn, BSchenn, Voarcek and Couturier were all fairly recent first round picks - and all of them except G (22nd) were top 10. Mason won the Calder. Simmonds was a 2. Hell, Umburglar was a 1 at some point in the distant past

 

But then you have undrafted FAs Read, Bellemare, Raffl, Akeson - how many times can they go to that well?

 

And the blue line is an obvious disaster.

 

I put the vast majority of the blame onto the GM that constructed this roster - and that's Paul Holmgren.

 

But the onus is on the coach to put players in positions to succeed regardless. I look at a Buffalo and at least I see some inklings of what Nolan is trying to do even though the "talent" they have can't execute it effectively. I don't see that on the Flyers.

 

The onus is on the coach to take a player who makes boneheaded plays and turnovers and floats at the blue line instead of backchecking (*cough* Brayden Schenn *cough*), sit him down, say "you're scratched tonight because you're not doing what I'm telling you to do and if when I put you back in the lineup next game and you still don't do what I tell you, you're going back to the press box."

 

The onus is on the coach who decides to play a 29yo rookie winger at center for the first time in his career - on the second line.

 

The onus is on the coach who decides to put Nick Schultz out for half of the final two minutes of a game and then 1/3 of overtime. Nick Schultz shouldn't ever be on the ice in overtime - or, arguably, at all.

 

I'm not blaming Berube for "all of it" - but I am willing to say that his "management" has left a lot to be desired regardless of the "talent" he has.

 

And I'm certainly not basing this all on one game against Chicago.

 

I know you're not... and I really have to agree with your assessment as well. I mean, that's certainly what it looks like's going on on the ice right now. Nothing I would characterize as organized. I just know that a superior team can make another team look really really bad. I mean, I almost felt sorry for the guys last night. They had the look of knowing they were simply outmatched. 

 

Sure, we do have some talented guys... UPFRONT. That falls apart like a house or cards with a D group that can only kindly be described as 'below average'. So, I guess my basic feeling is that.. yah, it could be that Berube is not the right guy. But, it could also be that our team D is not sufficient to stay in games against most teams in this league for 60min. That's with any coach, imo. 

[murraycraven]

berube is not a defensive coach, if you look at Quenneville, he's a defensive coach because if you look at his career, he was a defensemen, berube is not a defensemen, he was a winger/energy guy and that's not what this team needs. they need someone that's a defense first professional coach and nows how to put players in postion to win games, is it me or does berube coaches like andy reid putting players out of postion?

 

 

so let me get this straight - if you are a former player that is now Coach your previous position dictates how you Coach the game?   brilliant...   so I guess Hitch doesn't coach either b/c he did not play?  just brilliant...

 

TF84®

[Vanflyer]

But that in itself is a new rule. Used to be if you lost in OT, you lost. No points. That changed in the 96-97 season, I think.

 

We are saying the same thing. Win in OT, the winner gets two, the loser gets 0. Tie after OT, each gets 1 pt. I guess the only thing is that most games that went to OT, each team was content on keeping the point in their pocket. I hate the shootout, but how do you give incentive to not put cruise control on in OT???

 

Its the one bird in hand is better than two in the bush thing. I have to go look at what the AHL is trying- but if I remember correctly, its far better than a shootout.

[Vanflyer]

Exactly this^ I don't get it, that's the first thing me and my teammates would do when our goalie entered the crease, start running breakaways on him before peppering him with shots the rest of the way. Maybe that wasn't nice, but there's your breakaway time right there... pre-game warmups. Why does the condition of the ice matter that much to Berube? that's a confusing statement to make.

 

Thanks. You and I are on the same page. I just don't get. The only difference is that shootouts start at center ice and not the blue line (like we are discussing re: warmups). Yet, does that really make a difference- especially since it seems most players are going in reverse on shootouts anyway?

 

Just get rid of the damn rule. Its idiotic to have a game decided by individual skills v. team. I mean does baseball have a home run contests in extra innings? Football a field goal contest in OT?? I would say something about basketball, but I just can't go there.

[Vanflyer]

No...Bryz and Leaky aren't NHL goalies. Nor would any other goalie that regularly lets a Blair Betta score on them. Every breakaway doesn't score, and that's because of NHL level goalie talent.

 

I am not saying every shot, my point is that 1-on-1, percentage wise, an NHL player should be able to score at least 50% of the time regardless of line designation.

[radoran]

I am not saying every shot, my point is that 1-on-1, percentage wise, an NHL player should be able to score at least 50% of the time regardless of line designation.

 

Patrick Kane. 1 for 11.

 

Niklas Backstrom 7 for 17

 

Alexander Ovechkin 2 for 16

 

Zach Parise 5 for 14

 

Daniel Alfredsson 2 for 10

 

Thomas Vanek 3 of 8

 

Sidney Crosby 3 of 8

 

Vincent Lecavalier 2 of 8

 

Mike Richards 1 of 8

 

Of the 73 players who hit on 50% or more last season, nine took 10 or more attempts. 40 took 3 or less.

[Vanflyer]

Of the 73 players who hit on 50% or more last season, nine took 10 or more attempts. 40 took 3 or less.

 

Perception is everything.

 

Thanks for posting that. Its interesting. So, I guess it goes to say that practicing the shootout won't help anyway! :-P

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer  I think one of the interesting things that needs to be studied is how different goalies react to change of speeds and see how they respond to the shooter going wide. This gives valuable insight into how to approach the net and which moves will give you the most daylight.

[radoran]

Thanks for posting that. Its interesting. So, I guess it goes to say that practicing the shootout won't help anyway! :-P

 

Could be that it is just a crapshoot (I am saying it is a horrible way to end a hockey game).

 

315 players made at least one shootout attempt last season. 140 of them failed to score even once. 60 of those took multiple attempts.

 

I don't know that there is a magic solution to the shootout. No team seems particularly "better" at it on average top to bottom than the others.

 

I do, however, know that whining about "when do we do it?" and talking about ice surfaces at different stages of practice won't help.

 

@Vanflyer  I think one of the interesting things that needs to be studied is how different goalies react to change of speeds and see how they respond to the shooter going wide. This gives valuable insight into how to approach the net and which moves will give you the most daylight.

 

If they have "books" on major league pitchers, they should certainly have "books" on goalies.

[Vanflyer]

I think one of the interesting things that needs to be studied is how different goalies react to change of speeds and see how they respond to the shooter going wide. This gives valuable insight into how to approach the net and which moves will give you the most daylight.

 

I guess. But in warmups (when I played), I would do everything (fast  / slow / backhand / forehand / topshelf- bottom shelf etc.). 

[Vanflyer]

If they have "books" on major league pitchers, they should certainly have "books" on goalies.

 

Roger Neilson says hello.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Could be that it is just a crapshoot (I am saying it is a horrible way to end a hockey game).

 

315 players made at least one shootout attempt last season. 140 of them failed to score even once. 60 of those took multiple attempts.

 

I don't know that there is a magic solution to the shootout. No team seems particularly "better" at it on average top to bottom than the others.

 

I do, however, know that whining about "when do we do it?" and talking about ice surfaces at different stages of practice won't help.

 

 

If they have "books" on major league pitchers, they should certainly have "books" on goalies.

 

 

Dunno if this was ever posted here... but, seems relevant again. 

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/10/15/6980029/philadelphia-flyers-shootout-stats-bad

 

EDIT: we all seem to hate the SO. My friend is an Avs fan and he loves the SO. It's usually an extra point for them.