Fighting in the NHL is down 20% from last Season

[hf101]

... and I think that number will continue to drop throughout the season.

 

From ESPN's Pierre LeBrun:

The total number of fighting majors through Tuesday's games was down 20 percent compared to the same number of games (135) a year ago.

 

If you go back to the first 135 games in October 2003, fighting majors are down 44 percent.

 

 

Contributing factors:

 

1. Teams have decided not to hold a roster position for the one dimensional player.

2. Teams want players on the 4th line who can move up and down the roster and play 10 - 12 minutes a night.

3. Referee's are breaking up fights before they start.

4. Rule changes to penalize the removal of helmets. 

 

So the question is have you missed the Enforcer this season?

[flyercanuck]

I have no problem with fighting in hockey. I'd also never miss enforcers if they got rid of them all.

[B21]

I have no problem with fighting in hockey. I'd also never miss enforcers if they got rid of them all.

 

Spot on, FC.

[FD19372]

My prediction is this: their will be less fighting this season, as team's make more of an effort to dress their enforcers.  The problem will be that stick swinging and cheapshots also will go up. If you want to sacrifice your best players for fighting for injured teammates, than be in favor of it. I would not be. Like it or not, fighting is a part of the game, and it isn't just to "goon it up" and turn into the WWF. Stop trying to sissify the sport and turn it into the ice capades.  I understand the game is faster, the players are bigger to an extent. I also understand there are players paid more money presently than at any other time in NHL history.   That being said, I think dressing an enforcer that can't play is a waste of a roster spot.  However, when we play a team like Pittsburgh, we all know the game is going to be nasty. We have a right to protect ourselves from mean, nasty players like Crosby.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I am still a firm believer that fighting in the NHL does serve a purpose...and that is to deter the rat players from becoming the main focus of any given hockey game.

 

That said, I DO like the direction many teams are taking where the 4th line is now more of an actual skating line, though they still have checking duties.

I see this going on with my teams, the Bolts and Wild, and it can be seen throughout the league more and more, and I expect the trend to continue.

 

I have nothing against the traditional 'enforcer' role, per se, however, in today's NHL, it has become very clear that a player who is just a pair of fists on skates with little else to offer IS a waste of a roster spot.

That DOESN'T mean the enforcer role has to go away.

Just means the enforcer has to also be able to not only check, but he has to skate, or kill penalites effectively....just be able to generally contribute in positive ways to the team.

In short, the 'enforcer' has to evolve....and I think he has and continues to do so.

 

And just for clarification, because some people have this dense idea that just because someone is labeled 'enforcer' it automatically means "goon".....that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

If we are talking evolved enforcers, then those guys would be players that can actually play the game of hockey (scoring, checking, special teams) yet can be counted on to stick up for teammates, and if necessary, get into a fight.

Not going to open up a can of worms by naming players, but look around the league....see what players are actual hockey players, do everything you want from an actual hockey player....yet you KNOW can and will drop them if need be....THAT is the modern enforcer.

 

Fighting in the NHL can stay.

If the NHL wants to tailor rules to phase out or discourage carrying a Cro-Magnon on their roster...then fine.

But to flat out make a decree "There shalt me no more fighting in the NHL....and if you do, you will be fined, suspended or banned from the league", or anything like that, IMO, would be plain stupid.

 

May as well ring the dinner bell for every rat player and his vermin uncle, because that just opens the door to new levels of cheap shot shittery and THEN some...

Can you imagine.....guys like Matt Cooke, Brad Marchand, Alex Burrows, Jordin Tootoo with free run to do whatever manner of heinous acts knowing full well that they may get a penalty for something, but don't have to worry about someone touching them because if a player did, they'd be gone for a period of time??

 

And take that one step further, and say you have a player who plays good hockey, but happens to stick up for a linemate or his goaltender, and gets an unfair suspension, because he did nothing but drop the gloves with a rat player who acted like he would do the same...only to turtle up, take a double minor or even a major for something, while the good hockey player who also enforces goes away for a game or three? That would just suck.....advantage: Rat Players!

 

Sure, curb the role of the common goon by making it so carrying one on the roster is more of a hassle than it is worth, but leave fighting in there.

If there are less knuckledraggers in the league, fighting will naturally go down as it has, but rat players will STILL need to mind their manners because there will still be players able and willing (and NOT automatically suspended) to knock their heads off for doing stupid things on the ice to star players....which of course, the NHL wants to keep ON the ice and not on IR due to some rodent maliciously slew footing, spearing, ramming into the boards head-first, etc, etc.

[fanaticV3.0]

Wow, 20%! That's kind of sad. The sport is truly changing and I don't know if it's for the better. Fighting has dropped enough in the last 10-15 years and I'm fine  with it, but 20% last year, when there are barely any fights anymore? That's kind of pathetic. I don't want the 70s or anything, but the league has gotten too small and pussified lately.

 

Also, I call BS on everyone who claims to hate goons. Most of you are older than me and grew up idolizing some very dirty Flyer teams from a very dirty era of hockey. You loved that, but hate a single goon-on-goon fight? Please.

[CoachX]

I'm not a fan of the goon vs goon staged fight. What I like is a guy who beats the piss out of you for getting near his teammate. the sports will suffer if fighting continues to diminish.

 

on a similar note, that brawl at the nascar event has me wanting to tune in to the next one

[B21]

Can you imagine.....guys like Matt Cooke, Brad Marchand, Alex Burrows, Jordin Tootoo with free run to do whatever manner of heinous acts knowing full well that they may get a penalty for something, but don't have to worry about someone touching them because if a player did, they'd be gone for a period of time??

 

Great post overall but....

 

Those guys have been playing that game for a decade.  Before them there was Kasparaitis, Avery, Claude Lemieux, Domi, Simon, et al. I'm sure others before them.  The NHL has always had players like that.  It's not like the decline in fighting has led to more incidents like the kind this bunch is known for.

 

Fighting doesn't solve that problem.  It never has. It never will.  The staged fights are pointless.  The spontaneous fights are great...basically because they are not staged...but at the end of the day what do they accomplish aside from pure entertainment?

 

Yet another example (I've posted on this repeatedly ).  Pens vs. Isles in mid-October.  Downie (who clearly falls into the above category) levels Franz Nielsen. Not a head shot. No arms up. Left his skates and was hit with a charging minor which is about what the hit warranted.  Almost immediately, Travis Hamonic engages, they scrap and that's it.  It was a decent scrap. Certainly not staged.  The crowd enjoyed it.  But really...did it accomplish anything?

 

Case for fighting: "It keeps players from taking liberties....".  Did the thought that he might have to drop the gloves deter Downie from making that hit? No.  If that were Tavares (star player) instead of Franz Nielsen is  Downie thinking twice about his next move? No.

 

Case for fighting: Get rid of the instigator and players will fight more. Hamonic was hit with the additional 2:00 AND a misconduct.  Did that stop him from fighting Downie on what was an illegal but not a dirty hit? No.

 

Case for fighting: It allows players to police themselves. Not. Name the player who took a cheap shot, got his arse beat and suddenly reformed his game.  Now, name a player who took a cheap shot, got suspended for a long time and reformed his game (hint: not thinking of Matt Cooke). Now, name a player who took a cheap shot, got his arse beat and can't play again.

 

I don't mind the spontaneous fighting but I'll never figure out the thought process that sees it as being a necessary part of the game.

[JackStraw]

Case for fighting: It allows players to police themselves. Not. Name the player who took a cheap shot, got his arse beat and suddenly reformed his game.  Now, name a player who took a cheap shot, got suspended for a long time and reformed his game (hint: not thinking of Matt Cooke). Now, name a player who took a cheap shot, got his arse beat and can't play again.

 

Good post. The fact is, the guys who are the "rats" know that getting in a hockey fight is not exactly like stepping into the ring with a young Mike Tyson. They know the refs will step in and if they really want to, they can just turtle (Avery). Suspensions and fines are more of a deterrent than a potential arse-whupping that most likely won't even happen and won't be that bad if it does.

[B21]

Good post. The fact is, the guys who are the "rats" know that getting in a hockey fight is not exactly like stepping into the ring with a young Mike Tyson. They know the refs will step in and if they really want to, they can just turtle (Avery). Suspensions and fines are more of a deterrent than a potential arse-whupping that most likely won't even happen and won't be that bad if it does.

 

Good point. It's rare that a guy gets seriously hurt during a fight (not meaning to discount the long term effects as far as concussions go). Even when it's a mismatch (thinking Cooke vs. Thornton) there is never a beat down that you can say was true "payback". Cooke wasn't even bloodied when he fought Thornton. Was that really "payback" for the Savard hit?

[JR Ewing]

Good post. The fact is, the guys who are the "rats" know that getting in a hockey fight is not exactly like stepping into the ring with a young Mike Tyson. They know the refs will step in and if they really want to, they can just turtle (Avery). Suspensions and fines are more of a deterrent than a potential arse-whupping that most likely won't even happen and won't be that bad if it does.

 

Agreed. Cheap shot artists have been in this game from the moment the first puck was dropped, and fighting has been around just as long. If players "policing" themselves worked, then the jackasses would have been driven out well over 100 years ago.

 

Why did third-man-in fights stop? The league started suspending players, hurting their bank account.

Why did bench clearing brawls stop? Same reason.

 

I feel essentially the same as others: I'm ok with two players with NHL skills fighting. The game doesn't need it, though I can more than live with it, and there's really no place for the dancing bear without major league calibre abilities. It's long gone, but when the salary cap era began, I made a post on another site, saying that I thought it would go a long way towards easing goons out of the game. My thought was, and is, that when a GM is pushing up against the cap, he just can't justify spending an extra million or two on a guy who can only fight while facing the risk of losing his top players, all while giving up a roster spot that could be used an actual NHL player. The same result could have been had if they had reduced the number of roster spots by one, though I'm not necessarily advocating that idea.

 

I just wish more people who hate that fighting is going down would just be honest and say "I like watching fights" rather than come up with the usual tired bullet points about ridding the game of cheap shot artists, the ice capades, and the flow being changed by the big KO.

[B21]

I just wish more people who hate that fighting is going down would just be honest and say "I like watching fights" rather than come up with the usual tired bullet points about ridding the game of cheap shot artists, the ice capades, and the flow being changed by the big KO.

 

This.