Rinaldo is back

[OccamsRazor]

Goon hockey is dead......

 

 

 

 

...this guy is going to take Zac's job maybe he doesn't fight as well but he is a better hockey player it's what the NHL is evolving to.

[Samifan]

This guy could also take Rinaldo's job!

[OccamsRazor]

This guy could also take Rinaldo's job!

Its that the guy they are trading Coburn for?

[Samifan]

Only if the chimp will accept a 6yr $36 million contract

[OccamsRazor]

Only if the chimp will accept a 6yr $36 million contract

Done....but it must have a NMC.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Again, I do think there is a problem, I just don't think the league is going to do thing #1 about it.

 

I though the five for "fighting" was definitely overblown, but given that they were going to (and did) give the Flyers a power play for it, they had the choice for a "fighting" instigation to Chimera or a double minor roughing to Chimera (rarely happens) and a roughing to Rinaldo. I don't think they could have gotten away with just giving Chimera a roughing and letting Zac off scott free.

 

As much as Zac must be embarrassed to have been dropped so easily, I simply don't agree with the idea that he did "nothing".

I think the 5 minute penalty for both players was an afterthought by the Referee. After a fight, each linesman takes a combatant to the penalty box. That didn't happen. Zac was sitting on the Flyers bench getting a drink when the linesman came over to get him. You could read Zac's lips when he asked the linesman "For what?". This was a horseshit call.

I agree with Rod. Reputation will get you called for borderline infractions. Zac did not deserve a penalty on this play.

By the way, Chimera got the 2 mins for roughing, not instigation. Instigator penalty carries a 10 min misconduct (along with 2 min minor).

[Adamflyers]

A sucker punch is a sucker punch...doesn't matter who is on the receiving end of it. If a guy is tied up, gloves still on and not throwing punches, he should not be punched. It is a cowardly move and Chimera should be embarrassed. Going by the vid I posted earlier in this thread, Chimera seems to have no problem throwing sucker punches, so I guess he finds it acceptable.

The truth is, they are just as dangerous as a head shot or check from behind. Same damage can be caused if you take an unexpected punch to the face. The fact that Chimera only got an extra 2 min was surprising and Rinaldo getting 5 was a complete joke! At worst, they could have given him 2 for roughing.

[TedZep]

Zac did not deserve a penalty on this play.

By the way, Chimera got the 2 mins for roughing, not instigation. Instigator penalty carries a 10 min misconduct (along with 2 min minor).

 

...which he obviously deserved.

 

You have players like Malkin, Neal & Chimera who are actually dirty players who don't have a "reputation" for it, despite abundant video evidence, and you have Rinaldo whose "reputation" is half based on smoke and mirrors, the Caps game being the perfect example of referees making up calls and ignoring the correct calls on the opposition.

They are assassinating poor Zac's character!  Or besmirching it a little, at least.

 

All I ask, Ref, is call a fair and honest game.  You did not do that.  Rinaldo will still give you plenty of opportunities to put him in the box, no need to make schtuff up.

[murraycraven]

A sucker punch is a sucker punch...doesn't matter who is on the receiving end of it. If a guy is tied up, gloves still on and not throwing punches, he should not be punched. It is a cowardly move and Chimera should be embarrassed. Going by the vid I posted earlier in this thread, Chimera seems to have no problem throwing sucker punches, so I guess he finds it acceptable.

The truth is, they are just as dangerous as a head shot or check from behind. Same damage can be caused if you take an unexpected punch to the face. The fact that Chimera only got an extra 2 min was surprising and Rinaldo getting 5 was a complete joke! At worst, they could have given him 2 for roughing.

 

 

I loathe Rinaldo and literally feel like spitting if I have to defend him but the call was ridiculous.   Still - Rinaldo needs to be shunned away to the AHL or another Team stupid enough to take him.   

[fanaticV3.0]

1. Rinaldo has created his own reputation. If he's a target, he has no one to blame but himself.

 

2. That sure looked like an attempted elbow to me.

 

2. He did not deserve a fighting major. He did not fight. He did not even get his gloves off. That was an absolutely awful call.

[radoran]

2. He did not deserve a fighting major. He did not fight. He did not even get his gloves off. That was an absolutely awful call.

I can get on board with this, but there was simply no way that the Flyers were going to wind up with a five minute major power play or anything more than a two minute power play in that exchange*. Which they got.

In the video above, Rinaldo retaliates with the stick at 33 seconds (yes, he does) and subsequently has his hand/arm around Chimera's head.

The officials don't get to watch replays or slow motion from different angles. They see what they see when they see it and from where they are. They do make mistakes.

I do think Chimera was in the wrong. I do think it should be subject to evaluation by the league in terms of head injury.

But this is a league in which "blows to the head" are illegal and subject to suspension (even in the event it wasn't a called penalty), while fighting with blows to the head being the centerpiece of the action is sanctioned.

If he's a target, he has no one to blame but himself.

And it was Zac Rinaldo. Zac Rinaldo isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt. Ever.

We can "dislike" that and say "it's not fair" and wail and gnash teeth until the cows come home, make a nice dinner, have some fava beans with their chianti and settle in for a long winter's nap. It won't change a damn thing.

* NOTE: apologies for the incorrect recitation of the penalties assessed above. IMO, they blew that call, too. Chimera was clearly the instigator in that environment in every important way, shape and form. Two minutes for "roughing" and a five minute major? That's just redundant. And stupid.

That said... Rinaldo's actions - "gloves on" or "not" - do "according to the rulebook" and given the "wide discretion" provided to the referees, constitutes "fighting."

"A fight shall be deemed to have occurred when at least

one player punches

or attempts to punch an opponent repeatedly or

when two players wrestle in such a manner as to make it difficult for

the Linesmen to intervene and separate the combatants.

The Referees are provided very wide latitude in the penalties with

which they may impose under this rule. This is done intentionally to

enable them to differentiate between the obvious degrees of

responsibility of the participants either for starting the fighting or

persisting in continuing the fighting. The discretion provided should be

exercised realistically

And, as for Chimera, he was a textbook "instigator"

An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his

actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria:

distance traveled; gloves off first; first punch thrown; menacing

attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats; conduct in retaliation

to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous

incident in the game or season.

[murraycraven]

"And it was Zac Rinaldo. Zac Rinaldo isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt. Ever.
We can "dislike" that and say "it's not fair" and wail and gnash teeth until the cows come home, make a nice dinner, have some fava beans with their chianti and settle in for a long winter's nap. It won't change a damn thing."

 

THIS!

 

 

I still think Rinaldo comes off like a little bi-atch complaining after the game.  Suck it up dude... you made your own bead so you have to sleep in it.  Criticizing the refs in the media will not help the situation one bit.  Suck it up and candy-coat it and try to redeem yourself as an actual NHL worthy player and just not some cheap-shot dolt that should be in the AHL.

[OccamsRazor]

Can someone explain to me why Zac is in the lineup??

It doesn't make sense if they are trying to win. If they are playing for a draft pick then i guess it does...but i know they ain't tanking.

Zac should be waived.

[murraycraven]

Can someone explain to me why Zac is in the lineup??

It doesn't make sense if they are trying to win. If they are playing for a draft pick then i guess it does...but i know they ain't tanking.

Zac should be waived.

 

 

If you can figure this one out OR you may be the winner of the interwebs.   Frank S (who I am not fond of) had a decent article today if you want to read:

 

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/flyers/Why-is-Zac-Rinaldo-still-in-the-Flyers-lineup.html

[Samifan]

If you can figure this one out OR you may be the winner of the interwebs.   Frank S (who I am not fond of) had a decent article today if you want to read:

 

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/flyers/Why-is-Zac-Rinaldo-still-in-the-Flyers-lineup.html

 

Dont say this often about Frank S. but good article.

 

Berube dresses Rinaldo because, "he finishes his checks" then benches him for extended periods of time during the game because he wants more production from the 4th line. That's great Chief!

 

Memo to "One of the brightest minds in hockey"; By dressing and benching Rinaldo you are basically playing with 11 forwards. You're playing with a short bench yet you wonder why the team runs out of gas in the 3rd periods of games.

 

Hey Hexy, the bright light is burned out please get us a new lamp!

[murraycraven]

Dont say this often about Frank S. but good article.

 

Berube dresses Rinaldo because, "he finishes his checks" then benches him for extended periods of time during the game because he wants more production from the 4th line. That's great Chief!

 

Memo to "One of the brightest minds in hockey"; By dressing and benching Rinaldo you are basically playing with 11 forwards. You're playing with a short bench yet you wonder why the team runs out of gas in the 3rd periods of games.

 

Hey Hexy, the bright light is burned out please get us a new lamp!

 

 

I have to admit Sami - Berube is never not up for a stupid quote.  

[JackStraw]

Can someone explain to me why Zac is in the lineup??

 

It's what we call a "known unknown".

[murraycraven]

Here is a great read on the idiocy that is Z Rinaldo

 

http://buzzonbroad.com/flyers/whos-to-blame-for-zac-rinaldo/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[fanaticV3.0]

I can get on board with this, but there was simply no way that the Flyers were going to wind up with a five minute major power play or anything more than a two minute power play in that exchange*. Which they got.

In the video above, Rinaldo retaliates with the stick at 33 seconds (yes, he does) and subsequently has his hand/arm around Chimera's head.

The officials don't get to watch replays or slow motion from different angles. They see what they see when they see it and from where they are. They do make mistakes.

I do think Chimera was in the wrong. I do think it should be subject to evaluation by the league in terms of head injury.

But this is a league in which "blows to the head" are illegal and subject to suspension (even in the event it wasn't a called penalty), while fighting with blows to the head being the centerpiece of the action is sanctioned.

And it was Zac Rinaldo. Zac Rinaldo isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt. Ever.

We can "dislike" that and say "it's not fair" and wail and gnash teeth until the cows come home, make a nice dinner, have some fava beans with their chianti and settle in for a long winter's nap. It won't change a damn thing.

* NOTE: apologies for the incorrect recitation of the penalties assessed above. IMO, they blew that call, too. Chimera was clearly the instigator in that environment in every important way, shape and form. Two minutes for "roughing" and a five minute major? That's just redundant. And stupid.

That said... Rinaldo's actions - "gloves on" or "not" - do "according to the rulebook" and given the "wide discretion" provided to the referees, constitutes "fighting."

And, as for Chimera, he was a textbook "instigator"

 

They absolutely blew the call. The action in question is what matters (or should), not who it's done to. Maybe they gave him the major because they thought he deserved it because of what he just attempted to do? That's my only guess. Fair, no, but people aren't fair.

 

What I'm sorta interest in is how quiet people are about the fight considering Rinaldo didn't even connect with the hit. Many a Flyers fan on this very site object to retaliation for the hit on Laughton because it was a clean hit. I do believe what Rinaldo was attempting would have been a penalty had he connected, but he didn't, so like the Laughton situation Chimera was essentially responding to nothing (and nobody is outraged over that).

[radoran]

What I'm sorta interest in is how quiet people are about the fight considering Rinaldo didn't even connect with the hit. Many a Flyers fan on this very site object to retaliation for the hit on Laughton because it was a clean hit. I do believe what Rinaldo was attempting would have been a penalty had he connected, but he didn't, so like the Laughton situation Chimera was essentially responding to nothing (and nobody is outraged over that).

 

I think "Chimera is a douchebag" was kind of assumed early on in the discussion.

 

If we had a contingent of Caps fans around here, it might be different (although the "fight" did seem to affect momentum for a time). I don't see the point in dropping the gloves on a non-hit and putting my team on the penalty kill. Especially less than a minute after the Caps had cut the lead to 2-1.

 

Most Flyers fans, I'll wager, were perfectly fine getting the power play off a non-hit by Rinaldo.

 

If only the team had managed to do anything with it...

[brelic]

What I'm sorta interest in is how quiet people are about the fight considering Rinaldo didn't even connect with the hit. Many a Flyers fan on this very site object to retaliation for the hit on Laughton because it was a clean hit. I do believe what Rinaldo was attempting would have been a penalty had he connected, but he didn't, so like the Laughton situation Chimera was essentially responding to nothing (and nobody is outraged over that).

 

The broadcasters even said "Chimera responds by going after Rinaldo like any good teammate would."

 

I was rolling my eyes. Clean hits = retaliation now.

[radoran]

Clean MISSED hits = retaliation now.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

That NBC announcer was terrible. I didn't mind Anson Carter behind the glass tho.

[fanaticV3.0]

The broadcasters even said "Chimera responds by going after Rinaldo like any good teammate would."

 

I was rolling my eyes. Clean hits = retaliation now.

 

Well I do think Rinaldo attempted a dirty hit. After watching the video is sure as sh-t looks to me that forearm was raised, but since he never landed it it was sort of a reaction to nothing. If he was responding to what Rinaldo's intention fine, but be a man and let him get his gloves off.

 

Fighting in general is in this bizarre place right now. People who have followed the sport for years are suddenly against it. The game is about "speed and skill" now and there's no place for "staged fights", but we all know none of us complained about them growing up. It's like the league sold us on this borderline anti-fighting style of play and now fans seem to have bought into it. It's almost always wrong now. No room in the game for staged fights, but there isn't a single one of us who took issue with this. It's one of the most memorable moments of that era.

[radoran]

What's the old line?

 

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["a good hockey fight"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it."

 

[LegionOfDoom]

The Flyers like Zac, I would say Simmonds is more of an instigator and has more push back than Zac, Simmons doesn't take a lot of crap from other teams actions, he doesn't hit as hard as Zac, but is quick to respond to trouble, I would say B./L. Schenn as well, I think Zac is more neutral to what trouble goes on the ice, but is more like a shark in being opportunistic in getting his hits, but can be pointed to a certain direction and told to achieve certain goals.

I would like for Zac to put away the hard hits for now and focus on playing like he does in practice and warmups and go back to very selective hitting. Focus on his offensive and defensive play.

I would want for a practice line of

Zac, G, Simmer

Bell, White, Jake

Schenn, Coots, Read

Raff, Vinny, V V

This would spread job duties and skill sets across the board and each line would have toughness and skills for sustained forchecking.

This also would give the third line youngsters less pressure and grow to a powerful offensive/defensive line in a year or two with our defensemen upcomers, complementing them on breakouts.