OccamsRazor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I will NEVER say the Flyers GM did a good job again.You guys are all right. Hextall is an idiot. Timonen's past makes him an instant Norris candidate this year. He has twenty games left this year, and he's sure to win the hardware by season's end. He's the holy grail of defensemen. My children and I will pray to him at supper tonight. Amen. REPORTED!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Did Chicago overpay? Yeah maybe...but no worse than LA overpaying for Sekera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Because 10 goals, 37 assists and plus 11 in 55 games... 1 point from leading all defensemen in 6 less games... Overrated by whom?C'mon Polaris.... You should know I am messing with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 C'mon Polaris.... You should know I am messing with you!I'm not. Letang (apparently French for "the Mike Green") IS overrated. And Polaris has had it in for timo and emery for literally years. Neither is an ace, but both play their parts very very well.Polaris has every right to voice his opinion on Timonen, as we on Letang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I don't think Chicago overpaid at all. The 4th is a throwaway, and I sincerely doubt the Hawks make it out of the 2nd round without Kane. They might very well be one and done. The 2nd round pick is essentially a 3 in 30 chance of landing a serviceable NHLer - 2nd/3rd liner, 2nd/3rd pairing defenseman. And in that 3 of 30, I would say that maybe once every 3 years or so you find an absolute stud. A Weber, a Keith, a Subban. You can't bank on finding those studs... it's a crapshoot. So is two to three months of Timonen as your 2nd/3rd pairing defender worth the risk of possibly losing out on a future 2nd/3rd line forward or 2nd/3rd pairing defenseman? Those guys are a dime a dozen. Don't do it every year, but once in a while, if you believe your team is poised for a Cup run, why not? There's no way that's overpayment. The return is *potentially* a mediocre NHLer, but very likely to be a player that plays a handful of NHL games or none at all and has no impact on the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 @B21I can't even say their GM did good without getting criticized for it. I even put orange tinted glasses on looking at this one! Fine then! How the he-- could Hextall only get a 2nd and possibly a 2nd 2nd for a guy who is 39 and hasn't played in a year? #warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 the other way to look at this is as a 40 year old (gulp) the fact that he hasn't been playing means he's not worn down from 50 + games in the NHL.70 % of Timonen is still better than all of Runblad, if Timonen is in fact able to play without dying from his blood clots. I do and would share your apprehension about his not playing this year, he is a wildcard, unknown ... I will be interested in seeing where and how he fits in in that d corps, they are dynamic 1-4 so if he slots in in that bottom pairing i think the hawks lose nothing from this deal, he gives them 10+ a night and allows Quennville some options on the powerplay... the curious part for me is why they are not looking for some scoring unless they think they have that on the farm. in win now mode i don't think this is a horrible trade, provided Timonen has something left in the tank. If he were 5 years younger I might agree....but 40? Time off or not there are a lot of miles on those tires. It's a 20-some game scramble for the Hawks and then a game every other day for as long as they hang on (which I don't think is going to be very long). You don't give up a 2nd+ for that much of an unknown. Look at the Pends deal...a 2nd+ for Winnick. You know what you are getting. The risk is will that translate to the Pens. Timmonen? Who know's. I don't have problem with the aquisition...just the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Timonen could be just what Blackhawks need......... http://www.tsn.ca/timonen-could-be-just-what-blackhawks-need-1.218465 In Chicago, Timonen should step into a top-four role right away, potentially pairing with Niklas Hjalmarsson on what is the Blackhawks' shutdown pair. Timonen is also capable of contributing on the power play, with 37 of his 64 points (57.8%) in the past two seasons coming with the man advantage.Provided he's healthy, he's a nice upgrade for a Blackhawks team that has run into some problems on the blueline this year. A second-round pick that falls in the last 10 picks of the round comes with a nearly three-in-five chance of landing an NHL player.A fourth-round pick in those same circumstances only offers about a 14.0% chance of turning into an NHL player. Nice opinion here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I'm at a gun bash drinking heavily... You Flyers fans are pushing me to drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 @Polaris922 I don't think anyone is disputing Hextall made a good trade. Most are just saying Timonen can help Chicago, while you're saying he's done. Maybe he is...none of us know at this point because he's been out all year. He's got 20 games to get back into shape before playoffs, and if he can play at the level he did last year, this is a win-win trade. Did Chicago overpay? Most do at this time of year. I think the problem is that too many posters seem to have issue with someone dare saying something negative about Jesus Timmonen (#warrior). Polaris' opinion (with which I agree) is that it's an overpayment by the Hawks to add a 40 year old who has not played in over a year. That's not some over the top assessment. It's a fair, logical and unbiased assessment. Period. At the end of the day - how negative is it to think a 40 year coming off blood clots might not have anything left in the tank after a year off? But again, #warrior. The best part is, we are giving credit to the Flyers for making a deal in their favor. And of course, somehow Letang gets dragged into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I'm not. Letang (apparently French for "the Mike Green") IS overrated. And Polaris has had it in for timo and emery for literally years. Neither is an ace, but both play their parts very very well.Polaris has every right to voice his opinion on Timonen, as we on Letang. Of course....provided Letang had anything to do with the Hawks' aqusition of Timmonen. Clearly someone doesn't like anyone saying bad things about Timmonen. #warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 TSN article on the trade: http://www.tsn.ca/timonen-could-be-just-what-blackhawks-need-1.218465 Over his previous two seasons, Timonen had been a positive possession driver, with nearly 54% of shot attempts at even strength. On a team that struggled with him off the ice, Timonen was among the very best in terms of relative shot attempts.For defencemen that played at least 1500 5-on-5 minutes since the start of the 2012-2013 season: TOP DEFENCEMEN, RELATIVE SHOT ATTEMPTS, 2012-2015 PLAYER TEAM SAT% REL. SAT% Jake Muzzin Los Angeles 60.5% +6.3% Anton Stralman Tampa Bay 56.5% +6.0% Lubomir Visnovsky N.Y. Islanders 55.5% +5.9% Kimmo Timonen Philadelphia 53.9% +5.2% P.K. Subban Montreal 52.4% +5.1% T.J. Brodie Calgary 50.0% +5.0% Kevin Shattenkirk St. Louis 54.7% +4.8% Marc-Edouard Vlasic San Jose 55.2% +4.6% Mark Giordano Calgary 50.0% +4.6% Patrick Wiercioch Ottawa 51.1% +4.4% In Chicago, Timonen should step into a top-four role right away, potentially pairing with Niklas Hjalmarsson on what is the Blackhawks' shutdown pair. Timonen is also capable of contributing on the power play, with 37 of his 64 points (57.8%) in the past two seasons coming with the man advantage.Provided he's healthy, he's a nice upgrade for a Blackhawks team that has run into some problems on the blueline this year.Also, reading through the Hawks forum on hfboards, most Hawks fans seem to like this trade. It doesn't sound like they've been overly happy with any of their defensemen who are not named Duncan Keith this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I will NEVER say the Flyers GM did a good job again.You guys are all right. Hextall is an idiot. Timonen's past makes him an instant Norris candidate this year. He has twenty games left this year, and he's sure to win the hardware by season's end. He's the holy grail of defensemen. My children and I will pray to him at supper tonight. Amen. You have one hour to apologize for your transgressions or you'll be sent to solitary confined to a chat room with Buffalo Rick for a one week period... ......we're waiting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Timonen could be just what Blackhawks need......... http://www.tsn.ca/timonen-could-be-just-what-blackhawks-need-1.218465 In Chicago, Timonen should step into a top-four role right away, potentially pairing with Niklas Hjalmarsson on what is the Blackhawks' shutdown pair. Timonen is also capable of contributing on the power play, with 37 of his 64 points (57.8%) in the past two seasons coming with the man advantage.Provided he's healthy, he's a nice upgrade for a Blackhawks team that has run into some problems on the blueline this year. A second-round pick that falls in the last 10 picks of the round comes with a nearly three-in-five chance of landing an NHL player.A fourth-round pick in those same circumstances only offers about a 14.0% chance of turning into an NHL player. Nice opinion here. Damn you, just posted the same article. The table didn't come out too well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I think the problem is that too many posters seem to have issue with someone dare saying something negative about Jesus Timmonen (#warrior). Polaris' opinion (with which I agree) is that it's an overpayment by the Hawks to add a 40 year old who has not played in over a year. That's not some over the top assessment. It's a fair, logical and unbiased assessment. Period. At the end of the day - how negative is it to think a 40 year coming off blood clots might not have anything left in the tank after a year off? But again, #warrior. The best part is, we are giving credit to the Flyers for making a deal in their favor. And of course, somehow Letang gets dragged into this. I think we all feel it's a good deal for the Flyers. Timonen is retiring after this year and the Flyers aren't winning the Cup, so in that sense anything they could get for him would be a good deal. Overpayment? That depends on your point of view. He fits their system well. Both Hextall and Bowman have been quoted as saying that this has been in the works for some time now, so apparently he's someone the Hawks like. It will obviously take him some time to get his game legs back, but once he does he will improve their blue line. If they do end up winning the Cup (no guarantee obviously) I don't think anyone in Chicago will be complaining about the two 2nd round picks they gave up to get him. There is risk for Chicago, yes. But there is also the possibility of significant reward. The Hawks (as a serious contender) are in a position to be able to take that risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The table didn't come out too well though. Yeah it didn't............funny why the Legendary Letang isn't listed in that group!!!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Overpayment? That depends on your point of view. Thank you. It will obviously take him some time to get his game legs back, but once he does he will improve their blue line. Maybe. Maybe not. There is a reason there aren't a lot of 40 year olds left in the NHL let alone 40 year olds who haven't played in a long time so I agree to disagree. Just because he's had a nice career doesn't mean he will do anythign significant now. The Hawks (as a serious contender) are in a position to be able to take that risk. Agree about the risk part (that the Hawks should take it). I just think it's too much to give up for too big of a risk. Oh, and Letang is Letang is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I think the problem is that too many posters seem to have issue with someone dare saying something negative about Jesus Timmonen (#warrior). Polaris' opinion (with which I agree) is that it's an overpayment by the Hawks to add a 40 year old who has not played in over a year. That's not some over the top assessment. It's a fair, logical and unbiased assessment. Period. At the end of the day - how negative is it to think a 40 year coming off blood clots might not have anything left in the tank after a year off? But again, #warrior. The best part is, we are giving credit to the Flyers for making a deal in their favor. And of course, somehow Letang gets dragged into this. Look at the bright side...it wasn't Crosby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I love Kimmo... Honestly goes down as one of my favorite all time Flyers. It was a good deal for the Flyers when looking to the future. A 2nd is needed in this draft since Homer feet the need to give away another for McDud. All in all it was a good deal and I hope that Kimmo does well in Chicago. I hope he gets a ring... The time is now to look at the future. Kimmo was not a part of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 TSN article on the trade: http://www.tsn.ca/timonen-could-be-just-what-blackhawks-need-1.218465 Over his previous two seasons, Timonen had been a positive possession driver, with nearly 54% of shot attempts at even strength. On a team that struggled with him off the ice, Timonen was among the very best in terms of relative shot attempts.For defencemen that played at least 1500 5-on-5 minutes since the start of the 2012-2013 season: TOP DEFENCEMEN, RELATIVE SHOT ATTEMPTS, 2012-2015PLAYER TEAM SAT% REL. SAT%Jake Muzzin Los Angeles 60.5% +6.3%Anton Stralman Tampa Bay 56.5% +6.0%Lubomir Visnovsky N.Y. Islanders 55.5% +5.9%Kimmo Timonen Philadelphia 53.9% +5.2%P.K. Subban Montreal 52.4% +5.1%T.J. Brodie Calgary 50.0% +5.0%Kevin Shattenkirk St. Louis 54.7% +4.8%Marc-Edouard Vlasic San Jose 55.2% +4.6%Mark Giordano Calgary 50.0% +4.6%Patrick Wiercioch Ottawa 51.1% +4.4% In Chicago, Timonen should step into a top-four role right away, potentially pairing with Niklas Hjalmarsson on what is the Blackhawks' shutdown pair. Timonen is also capable of contributing on the power play, with 37 of his 64 points (57.8%) in the past two seasons coming with the man advantage. Provided he's healthy, he's a nice upgrade for a Blackhawks team that has run into some problems on the blueline this year.Also, reading through the Hawks forum on hfboards, most Hawks fans seem to like this trade. It doesn't sound like they've been overly happy with any of their defensemen who are not named Duncan Keith this year. Hope that helps a bit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Hope that helps a bit..... But where is Letang????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I don't think Chicago overpaid at all. The 4th is a throwaway, and I sincerely doubt the Hawks make it out of the 2nd round without Kane. They might very well be one and done.This is why I don't at all think it is an overpayment. The 4th is immaterial.If the Hawks get to the third round because Kimmo is playing 50% of games, they're likely to get Kane back and have a credible shot.At that point, the other second would be well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 At that point, the other second would be well spent. Yes indeed. And as a #4 or #5. And Hjalmarsson will be his best partner in more than a 8 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 @Polaris922Check out sergei gonchar in 2008And kimmo isn't going to be relied upon at all to the degree pittsburgh relied on go char i 2008... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 But where is Letang????? So your argument is positive shots? You do realize that's just shots not points? And compared to a team state? While Letang has say out large portions of both of those seasons, yet was the only defenseman OVER a point per game in 12-13? And it's over 1500 minutes 5 on 5 to be included, which due to so many games missed he probably didn't qualify. Ok just making sure you realize that's not points, goals, wins, or any other stat that actually matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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