brelic Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If these are true, O. M. G. I'm not sure it is possible to be less qualified and more idiotic than Holmgren. How can anyone in good conscience - old boys' network or not - promote this buffoon? http://thehockeywriters.com/6-league-altering-trades-that-almost-happened/ ---------- #5 Philadelphia trades Jeff Carter & 1st to Toronto for Tomas Kaberle Jeff Carter was in the midst of a semi-breakout season in which he scored 29 goals. However, his teammate Mike Richards had broken out that season, and with Danny Briere also in the fold, Flyers GM Paul Holmgren saw Carter as expendable. Needing another defenseman, the Flyers offered up the above package for Tomas Kaberle, who they had long coveted. However, Kaberle nixed the deal with his no-trade clause, and it never came to be. The next season, Carter broke out with a 46 goal campaign, and has since become one of the best two-way, goalscoring centers in the league. Kaberle’s point totals and TOI declined with each of the next five seasons before retiring. If Kaberle hadn’t nixed the trade, the Flyers never acquire Jakub Voracek and Sean Couturier, and it’s possible the Kings don’t win either of their cups. #4 Philadelphia trades Claude Giroux to Tampa Bay for Paul Ranger In 2009, Claude Giroux was in the midst of his first professional season in which he put up a respectable 27 points in 42 games. He showed flashes of brilliance, but some still questioned if his size would limit him at the NHL level. Again, needing defensemen, Paul Holmgren offered up the talented forward to Brian Lawton, then-Tampa GM straight up for Paul Ranger. Ranger, at the time, was seen as a minute munching top 4 defenseman that had logged 24 minutes a game that season. Lawton declined, as he admitted a few years ago on Sportsnet, and their futures couldn’t be more different. Giroux has the most points in the NHL over the last 5 years, and Ranger played just 8 games in 2009-10 before taking a 3 year hiatus from hockey for personal reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 This is Ed Snider and it should be Paul Holmgren on the business end of that rifle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Interesting article. Wowness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDI-Flyer Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Truly frightening... Again, if true then more proof that Homer should not be allowed anywhere near any kind of negotiation ever... Unless it's working for the NHL in the next CBA negotiations But what about the purported trade at No1? Montreal trades Carey Price, PK Subban, Max Pacioretty, 1st to Tampa Bay for Vincent Lecavalier Can you imagine what an impact that would have had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Interesting article. Wowness. I kinda wish he'd have flown back to Philly after the Vancouver game. The more time he spends with Hextall, the more chance his taint will infect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 But what about the purported trade at No1? Montreal trades Carey Price, PK Subban, Max Pacioretty, 1st to Tampa Bay for Vincent Lecavalier Crazy, isn't it? Tampa Bay = Stanley Cup favourite for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Notice how the Flyers under Holmgren are always "needing defencemen"? Remember how when Hextall asked how many draft picks were on the Phantoms, he didn't like the reply? There you go. That was the problem with replacing Bobby Clarke with "Bobby Clarke's protege" and expecting that something - anything - about the Phillyosophy of the organization* was going to change. Imagine this team without Giroux, Voracek and Couturier and with Kaberle and Ranger. Seriously? Kaberle and Ranger? #homercoaster * term used loosely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Notice how the Flyers under Holmgren are always "needing defencemen"? Hextall has done more with Del Zotto and Schultz than Holmgren ever did over the entire time he was here, picking up garbage like Walker, Lilja, Gervais, Foster, Gill, and on and on. The reason they were always "needing defensemen" is because Homer never took the time to "draft defensemen" and develop them properly. He finally got it in his last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 He finally got it in his last few years. Blind squirrels do find nuts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Dont understand why these are so shocking... I mean this is the same guy who signed McDud to a ludicrous contract, gave Ilya a terrible contract, signed VLC to a horrendous contract... does it really shock anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Dont understand why these are so shocking... I mean this is the same guy who signed McDud to a ludicrous contract, gave Ilya a terrible contract, signed VLC to a horrendous contract... does it really shock anyone? Yes, it does. Those were contracts to free agents, as horrible as they were. The two trades from the article show how short-sighted Holmgren really is. I mean, offering a 22 year old Carter who just had a breakout season with 29 goals and 53 points PLUS a 1st rounder for a 29-year old Kaberle who was purely an offensive defenseman with shoddy defensive skills. The Giroux offer is harder to judge because Giroux hadn't proven anything yet at the NHL level. But he showed more flashes of brilliance in those 47 games as a rookie than I've ever seen from Couturier and Brayden Schenn in their entire careers to date, so it would have been another short-sighted move for a mediocre finished product of a player. And to think the only reason they didn't happen was because they were blocked on the other end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Yes, it does. Those were contracts to free agents, as horrible as they were. The two trades from the article show how short-sighted Holmgren really is. I mean, offering a 22 year old Carter who just had a breakout season with 29 goals and 53 points PLUS a 1st rounder for a 29-year old Kaberle who was purely an offensive defenseman with shoddy defensive skills. The Giroux offer is harder to judge because Giroux hadn't proven anything yet at the NHL level. But he showed more flashes of brilliance in those 47 games as a rookie than I've ever seen from Couturier and Brayden Schenn in their entire careers to date, so it would have been another short-sighted move for a mediocre finished product of a player. And to think the only reason they didn't happen was because they were blocked on the other end. again - I am not surprised... it is Homer this is all conjecture as well... If he did try cut those deal it is just another day for #Homercoaster (thanks rad) in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The Giroux offer is harder to judge because Giroux hadn't proven anything yet at the NHL level. But he showed more flashes of brilliance in those 47 games as a rookie than I've ever seen from Couturier and Brayden Schenn in their entire careers to date this....is it giving up too early when there appears to be no "there , there"... and i say that with appreciation for Couturier's defensive game and good hockey iq. he is checked too easily, needs to use his frame better, when will he start to show that ? and Schenn....is improving marginally, but is still riding the coattails of one really great WJC tournament. I don't know, i think maybe we are "over valuing" some of the players on the untouchable core list. Let Homer go back to scouting, after all Giroux was his pick. Clarkie couldn't even pronounce is name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 this....is it giving up too early when there appears to be no "there , there"... and i say that with appreciation for Couturier's defensive game and good hockey iq. he is checked too easily, needs to use his frame better, when will he start to show that ? and Schenn....is improving marginally, but is still riding the coattails of one really great WJC tournament. I don't know, i think maybe we are "over valuing" some of the players on the untouchable core list. So what do you do? I mean, Couturier is a great 3rd line center, so keep him there. That's one less role we need filled. He's solid at it and in the off chance that he actually develops some offensive skill, even better. Schenn strikes me as a 2nd line winger. Again, we need those. So that means we're really looking for a top line winger (no surprise) and a 2nd line center. Laughton and Cousins *might* turn into one someday, but they aren't there now. So they either need to sign one in the offseason, or live with the growing pains. Maybe Martel can pull off that role. Of course I know exactly who should be in that role. And it will all become clear in a few weeks. McDavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Chip Kelly would trade Couturier for a Duck. Simple as that. I really like Couturier, but if you can package him for a bonafide scoring winger (I said package) then do it. I think the 3rd line center is probably easier to find/replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think the 3rd line center is probably easier to find/replace. We probably already have that in Laughton. But we know what Couturier can do defensively in the NHL. We don't really know that with Laughton. I honestly don't know how much trade value Couturier has around the league. Is it high? Low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 We probably already have that in Laughton. But we know what Couturier can do defensively in the NHL. We don't really know that with Laughton. I honestly don't know how much trade value Couturier has around the league. Is it high? Low? No idea to be honest. But I suspect it's a little lower than it was at this time even last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If this story is even remotely true ...then the Flyers need to have an order for protection for Homer. He should not even be allowed in the building. To think many of us gave him some credit years ago when he first took the job. Boy were we ever snookered. I am utterly fuming that Homer was given the reigns to this club. It will take years to clear the stench from thislocker room....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 If this story is even remotely true ...then the Flyers need to have an order for protection for Homer. He should not even be allowed in the building. To think many of us gave him some credit years ago when he first took the job. Boy were we ever snookered. I am utterly fuming that Homer was given the reigns to this club. It will take years to clear the stench from thislocker room....... In the Giroux trade, apparently Lawton admitted on Sportsnet that he nixed the trade. So it seems pretty legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 In the Giroux trade, apparently Lawton admitted on Sportsnet that he nixed the trade. So it seems pretty legit. I should be shocked...but deep down I'm really not. Homer has shown he has no clue on how to run a franchise...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I should be shocked...but deep down I'm really not. Homer has shown he has no clue on how to run a franchise...... I bet if they let him he'd have signed multiple players with torn ACLs and Tim Tebow. Nah...no one is THAT crazy or inept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 "no we just players to huge hand tieing contracts with NT/NMC handed out like candy.....oh...and we will do this not once but multiple times ...and for 1 player we won't even properly scout him....we just go out and sign him. then we are given a get out jail free card to dump said contracts and we turn around and do it again......... yeah...that is how INEPT our former GM was........" -----> all said in a sarcasm font! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 In the Giroux trade, apparently Lawton admitted on Sportsnet that he nixed the trade. So it seems pretty legit. And Kaberle nixed the Crater deal... At least two NMC/NTCs worked in the Flyers' favor for once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If these are true, O. M. G. I'm not sure it is possible to be less qualified and more idiotic than Holmgren. How can anyone in good conscience - old boys' network or not - promote this buffoon? http://thehockeywriters.com/6-league-altering-trades-that-almost-happened/ ---------- Aside from the abject terror, it's interesting how ALL of the other missed trades would have had an impact on the flyers in the long run. -If Schneider goes to Columbus, they most likely don't trade for Bobrovsky and probably would have traded Mason earlier.-If the Perry for Comrie deal goes down, we don't get him and keep Woywitka (no big deal) a First rounder and Syvret (no big deal either)-MDZ to Tampa... maybe he pulls it together for Tampa and doesn't get dumped but either way if the Rangers have Stamkos in 2010, there's no way we edge into the playoffs on the last day and therefore no cup finals.-VLC to Montral for Subban and co... Sweet Jesus why could this not have happened? WHY GOD WHY???!?!?- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I knew Berube wasn't the one when Paul gave him the kiss of death endorsement "one of the smartest hockey minds he knew" let me know right there to get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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