Did the Leafs Ruin Their Season by not making a big trade sooner?

[WordsOfWisdom]

Let's wind the clock back to December. The Leafs were 1st in GPG, 30th in GAA (or close enough), and it was clear that despite holding one of the bottom playoff spots, the team wasn't good enough to win.

 

At that moment in time, had the Leafs dealt Kessel (and some other bodies) for a top tier defenceman or done something to shake up the mix like I said they should have, it's possible that the Leafs might be sitting in 8th place in the East right now instead of 15th. (Or they could have started the rebuild even sooner and nabbed two more top prospects before even getting to the draft lottery.)

 

Much of success has to do with work ethic and team chemistry and the Leafs didn't have either.

 

So assuming they lose the draft lottery (and odds are they will), how much will the Leafs have really lost this summer when they go to trade Kessel and Phaneuf? Their trade value in December was at least decent. Today, their trade value is the lowest it has ever been for both players. Nobody is going to give up anything decent to Toronto to get either player, certainly no first round draft pick, and certainly no impact player.

 

 

[JagerMeister]

Why would you trade the face of the NHL?

 

 

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

You make some interesting points, @WordsOfWisdom , but let's not forget:

Contracts such as those of Kessel and Phaneuf for instance, are simply NOT that easy to move.

Not without the Leafs eating a majority of it and basically giving away those players for nothing.

 

Leafs Mis-Management has made many errors through recent seasons, I highly doubt they wanted to compound things further by letting guys like Kessel and/or Phaneuf, such as they are, walk for just about nothing.

Teams know the Leafs are in a bind and certainly were going to do NOTHING to help their situation...but would be there to do EVERYTHING to try and gain from their misfortune.

 

If anything, perhaps the Leafs should have made a series of smaller moves to try and shake up the status quo that way.

Thing is, no matter how you slice it, TALENT doesn't seem to be the problem with Toronto.

Seems the main problem is team cohesion and what is going on between the ears of both players and mis-management.

 

Let's say the Leafs are, in fact, "blown up" in the off season....would it REALLY surprise you to see it's many scattered parts do well elsewhere?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least....even a guy like Dion Phaneuf, whom I regard as a big, tough, but very LIABLE, player.

 

Toronto may explore unloading big contracts like Dion's and Phil's in the off season, but as for their value, honestly, the Leafs simply may have to be prepared to not get as much as they think they should.

Other teams are simply going to wait them out.

Seems to me, that was the situation in December and it will be so this summer.

 

Like it or not, the Leafs may very well have to take a few hits on the nozzle for a few seasons, build through the draft and minor moves in NHL players and go from there.

The mess that has been created in Toronto...well, there simply is no easy solution for it.

[WordsOfWisdom]

You make some interesting points, @WordsOfWisdom , but let's not forget:

Contracts such as those of Kessel and Phaneuf for instance, are simply NOT that easy to move.

Not without the Leafs eating a majority of it and basically giving away those players for nothing.

 

If anything, perhaps the Leafs should have made a series of smaller moves to try and shake up the status quo that way.

 

Let's say the Leafs are, in fact, "blown up" in the off season....would it REALLY surprise you to see it's many scattered parts do well elsewhere?

 

They're not easy to move, but they're still moveable. I guess my point is, the Leafs are probably going to try to move them this summer, and it'll be more difficult then versus having done it last December. In fact, I'm predicting that Kessel will go public with a trade demand out of Toronto this summer -- further crippling any potential returns and guaranteeing that Toronto gets screwed both in acquiring and trading away Phil Kessel. A double whammy. 

[flyercanuck]

@WordsOfWisdom

 

Let's see, do i want a one dimensional fat guy who'd rather eat cookies than work out, makes $8 million a year for 6 more years and turned on his fans and quit on his team? Where do I sign? 

 

Demand a trade? Good luck.

 

http://media.giphy.com/media/YewvFDvRqZXrO/giphy.gif

[jammer2]

@WordsOfWisdom  Phaneuf should be moved at all costs....if they only get a 3rd rounder back, the savings cap wise would be worth the trade. Kessel is a different story. He should also be dealt, but the stuff coming back *has* to be respectable. He's a top 10 scorer (most years) and the return should show that. Just giving away Kessel would be horrible for the Leafs, the guy is indeed the franchise....what they get back will determine if the rebuild will be long and horrible, or a 2-3 year project.

[Commander Clueless]

@WordsOfWisdom

 

Let's see, do i want a one dimensional fat guy who'd rather eat cookies than work out, makes $8 million a year for 6 more years and turned on his fans and quit on his team? Where do I sign? 

 

Demand a trade? Good luck.

 

http://media.giphy.com/media/YewvFDvRqZXrO/giphy.gif

 

Well, I mean, the guy does score a lot. So there's that. Sometimes people need the scores, yo. 

 

Also, in response to your signature there, the Leafs didn't tank either. They're just this bad. 

[flyercanuck]

@Commander Clueless

 

Kessel scores, sure. And it's not like that's nothing. But as the 10th biggest caphit in the entire league.... for a guy who's just totally given up...well, I can name at least 25 guys I'd rather have on my team thanks. And you guys aren't the first team that's given up on him.

[WordsOfWisdom]

@WordsOfWisdom

 

Let's see, do i want a one dimensional fat guy who'd rather eat cookies than work out, makes $8 million a year for 6 more years and turned on his fans and quit on his team? Where do I sign? 

 

Demand a trade? Good luck.

 

http://media.giphy.com/media/YewvFDvRqZXrO/giphy.gif

 

And yet players always demand a trade when they're not happy with their current team, thereby killing any trade value they may have had. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

@Commander Clueless

 

Kessel scores, sure. And it's not like that's nothing. But as the 10th biggest caphit in the entire league.... for a guy who's just totally given up...well, I can name at least 25 guys I'd rather have on my team thanks. And you guys aren't the first team that's given up on him.

 

The Hockey News ranked him as the 44th best player in the NHL on their annual TOP 50 list... and that was heading into the start of this season when he came off a 37 goal, 80 point, -5 season. Imagine what it will be next year!

 

To put that in perspective...

 

• Joe Thornton was 43rd.
• Victor Hedman was 45th.
• Chicago had Toews (3rd), Keith (10th), Kane (15th), Hossa (32nd), and Seabrook (47th).

 

Is it any wonder Toronto is 15th in the East? I think not. 

[yave1964]

@WordsOfWisdom

This team tanked, period, end of story, no discussion, period.

One of the things that killed them last season was lack of depth, the kids they threw out there were either not ready, or they were just used because they had nothing else. Adding Winnick, Komarov, Santorelli, Booth and Robidas addressed that and they played accordingly. At the quarter turn they were looking like a playoff team.

And then they fired Carlyle. Terrible move. Say what you want, the man can coach and is a proven winner. He was replaced by an unknown and with this team it was doomed to failure. With the egos and personalities in that locker room, it was a tank job pure and simple by replacing a coach who had them well within playoff range with a man who nobody in the locker room listens to.

I truly believe if Carlyle had coached the entire year they would be battling the Wings, Bruins and Capitals for a lower end playoff spot. With him gone the dye was cast. Santorelli, Franson, Winnick were all dealt, Kessel warts and all was underutilized, Kadri got in trouble with his team and with the league, they are unlikeable and boring and not even worth watching.

I truly think they see a one year window to get Mike Babcock and while I do not see them as bad enough to get McDavid or Eichel, but Noah Hanifin would look like a God on that Blueline for the next decade or Dylan Strome would fill the role of a number one center they have been looking for over the past decade.

So yeah, they made their move early, their move was wacking Carlyle and it made this season a fraud, the fans should be able to sue for the fraud that the organization perpetrated, pretending that this was a hockey season instead of what it really was.

[ruxpin]

What ruined the season was firing Carlyle. They weren't ultimately going to go anywhere, but firing Carlyle pretty much ended the season in Toronto

[ruxpin]

@yave1964

I hadn't read far enough to get to your post before I posted mine, but that was dead on accurate. Nice post.

[yave1964]

@yave1964

I hadn't read far enough to get to your post before I posted mine, but that was dead on accurate. Nice post.

That just proves that great minds think alike, lol. Either that or dumb and dumber, I reserve judgment to be pronounced by our fellow posters......

[WordsOfWisdom]

@WordsOfWisdom

This team tanked, period, end of story, no discussion, period.

One of the things that killed them last season was lack of depth, the kids they threw out there were either not ready, or they were just used because they had nothing else. Adding Winnick, Komarov, Santorelli, Booth and Robidas addressed that and they played accordingly. At the quarter turn they were looking like a playoff team.

And then they fired Carlyle. Terrible move. Say what you want, the man can coach and is a proven winner. He was replaced by an unknown and with this team it was doomed to failure. With the egos and personalities in that locker room, it was a tank job pure and simple by replacing a coach who had them well within playoff range with a man who nobody in the locker room listens to.

I truly believe if Carlyle had coached the entire year they would be battling the Wings, Bruins and Capitals for a lower end playoff spot. With him gone the dye was cast. Santorelli, Franson, Winnick were all dealt, Kessel warts and all was underutilized, Kadri got in trouble with his team and with the league, they are unlikeable and boring and not even worth watching.

I truly think they see a one year window to get Mike Babcock and while I do not see them as bad enough to get McDavid or Eichel, but Noah Hanifin would look like a God on that Blueline for the next decade or Dylan Strome would fill the role of a number one center they have been looking for over the past decade.

So yeah, they made their move early, their move was wacking Carlyle and it made this season a fraud, the fans should be able to sue for the fraud that the organization perpetrated, pretending that this was a hockey season instead of what it really was.

 

To respond to your points: 

 

1. From the trade deadline onward, the Leafs officially threw the season. ie: Tanked.  But it certainly didn't start out that way. The Leafs were aiming for 8th back in October.

 

2. Disagree on "looked like a playoff team". They were a bubble team when things were going well, and they were still being outplayed in most of the games they won. The players they picked up during the offseason were about the same as the ones they let go. It was just lateral moves over the summer in Leaf land -- like always.

 

3. The Carlyle firing is being viewed as the point at which the team sank, but the truth is, the losing streak began sooner. The losing streak led up to Carlyle being fired. And after he was fired, the team continued to spiral downward. It wasn't smooth sailing, fire Carlyle, then off the cliff. It was decent start, then cracks starting to show (winning games they shouldn't have), then weaknesses being exploited (mounting losses), then players tuning Carlyle out, then extended losing streak commencing, then Carlyle fired, and then downward spiral into the ground.

 

4. Re: Babcock. The timing is just all wrong for this. Only if Toronto got McDavid in the draft lottery would Babcock come here to coach. Otherwise I just don't see the appeal. 

[ruxpin]

Re: Babcock. The timing is just all wrong for this. Only if Toronto got McDavid in the draft lottery would Babcock come here to coach. Otherwise I just don't see the appeal.

 

Unless it's just for a huge paycheck (I wouldn't blame him) I can't see him going to either Toronto or Philly.  At this point I don't know why he'd want that kind of project.  Honestly, Philly might be in better position sooner, but I honestly don't foresee him going to either city.