Trade rumors

[Podein25]

Might have a little something to do with the TEAM he's currently on, huh?

Sure, but let's not kid ourselves: Phil works hard to earn his minuses.

[J0e Th0rnton]

LOL.  You guys are the ones with "slanted" views, regarding Kessel, and it's slanted BADLY.  Sure, he's a bit of a one dimensional forward, but that dimension he has is ELITE.

 

Ovechkin = 206 goals

Stamkos = 202 goals

Perry = 178 goals

Kessel = 151 goals

Nash = 151 goals

Tavares = 150 goals

Kane = 129 goals

Malkin = 125 goals

Crosby = 119 goals

 

Only three guys in the entire NHL have scored more goals than Kessel in the last 5 years.  He also has 339 points over that time, which is good enough for top-10......over the last 5 years.  Not just last year's performance is noted......FIVE YEARS.  He may be what you call "fat" but he's dominated most scorers as that "fatty".

 

Some teams are out there with cap space, or plans for cap space, and will be jumping at the chance to add a scorer like him.  7 years isn't that bad when you'll only be 35 when it's all over.  Guys play until they're 40 all the time these days.  And in a few years, 8 million is CHEAP for a consistent top-4 goal scorer, and top-8 point getter in the NHL.

 

 

You are aware fat out of shape NHLers decline much more rapidly right? Like fall off a cliff rapidly.

 

He will possibly be an elite scorer for 2 more years, then fall off. That much is near certain. The history of NHL players shows that the best offensive years are behind you. Possibly off a cliff at 30-31, possible merely to 2nd liner status. but you will be paying 8 million to a second line player. Right now, it looks like the decent has already begun. The reason leaf fans want to trade him is 25 goals and 61 points while minus-34 is HORRID for an 8 million dollar player

[J0e Th0rnton]

Might have a little something to do with the TEAM he's currently on, huh?

Let's not kid ourselves

 

Kessel's line was the only one on the team with a +/- remotely close to that bad. Largely because of him personally. Christ, Winnik was +15 and he only had 25 points. I guess on another team, Winnik could have been +60?

 

Kessel's line got largely outpossessed because of how afraid of board contact he is. Not that he is alone on that line. When your highest paid player is a shrinking violet that would rather avoid the hit than retrieve the puck and backchecks like he is on his way to a funeral, others are going to follow his example.

[J0e Th0rnton]

LOL.  You guys are the ones with "slanted" views, regarding Kessel, and it's slanted BADLY.  Sure, he's a bit of a one dimensional forward, but that dimension he has is ELITE.

 

Ovechkin = 206 goals

Stamkos = 202 goals

Perry = 178 goals

Kessel = 151 goals

Nash = 151 goals

Tavares = 150 goals

Kane = 129 goals

Malkin = 125 goals

Crosby = 119 goals

 

Only three guys in the entire NHL have scored more goals than Kessel in the last 5 years.  He also has 339 points over that time, which is good enough for top-10......over the last 5 years.  Not just last year's performance is noted......FIVE YEARS.  He may be what you call "fat" but he's dominated most scorers as that "fatty".

 

Some teams are out there with cap space, or plans for cap space, and will be jumping at the chance to add a scorer like him.  7 years isn't that bad when you'll only be 35 when it's all over.  Guys play until they're 40 all the time these days.  And in a few years, 8 million is CHEAP for a consistent top-4 goal scorer, and top-8 point getter in the NHL.

 

Guys only play until they are 32 all the time too. The guys playing till they are 40 generally maximize their physical health to get the best possible results. Given how the Canadian dollar is plummeting and how the cap may reach a standstill for several years, 8 million will NEVER be cheap. The likelyhood is, you are witnessing Kessel go the road of Glen Murray/Bill Guerin. In 3 years, you will likely be complaining about spending 8 million on a 20 goal, 45 point 2nd liner

 

As for "top goal guy last 5 years" Sure, now let's look at top 3 worst +/-  guys for the last 5 years.

 

Sam Gagner -75

Nail Yakupov -72

Phil Kessel -71

 

That's some elite company right there.

 

I get that you are a leafs fan. It is fine. But let's not pretend Kessel has value right now. His contract is negative value. He just had a horrid year in the first year of his new contract and they just hired a coach who will bench him if he does not play defense.

 

Any team who takes him will demand you retain salary or take one of their horrid contract dumps in return.

[Holymakinaw]

You are aware fat out of shape NHLers decline much more rapidly right? Like fall off a cliff rapidly.

 

He will possibly be an elite scorer for 2 more years, then fall off. That much is near certain. The history of NHL players shows that the best offensive years are behind you. Possibly off a cliff at 30-31, possible merely to 2nd liner status. but you will be paying 8 million to a second line player. Right now, it looks like the decent has already begun. The reason leaf fans want to trade him is 25 goals and 61 points while minus-34 is HORRID for an 8 million dollar player

 

LOL.  I don't know, Man.  I've showed you his actual achievements, and like always, you throw out a bunch of personal opinions, based on.......not much, other than your personal opinion.  Do you ever argue your points with an unbiased view?  

 

Kessel is obviously not perfect, but has led the Leafs in scoring the last SIX seasons, and led most of the NHL in goals the last FIVE seasons .  And he makes the same or less than most of the guys he's on my list, who he outscores.

 

Now go ahead.........tell me how fat and useless he is, and how no one wants him.  It's hilarious.

 

[J0e Th0rnton]

LOL.  I don't know, Man.  I've showed you his actual achievements, and like always, you throw out a bunch of personal opinions, based on.......not much, other than your personal opinion.  Do you ever argue your points with an unbiased view?  

 

Kessel is obviously not perfect, but has led the Leafs in scoring the last SIX seasons, and led most of the NHL in goals the last FIVE seasons .  And he makes the same or less than most of the guys he's on my list, who he outscores.

 

Now go ahead.........tell me how fat and useless he is, and how no one wants him

 

He is 28 dude. Entering the phase of his career where his best days are behind him. 90% of NHL players see a drop from that age on, over half of them dramatic drop. And you are paying him like he will be in his prime for 7 more years. That is not personal opinion, that is simple history.

 

That's why his contract is so dangerous

[Holymakinaw]

He is 28 dude. Entering the phase of his career where his best days are behind him. 90% of NHL players see a drop from that age on, over half of them dramatic drop. And you are paying him like he will be in his prime for 7 more years. That is not personal opinion, that is simple history.

 

That's why his contract is so dangerous

 

No, he's 27.   Annoying facts.  

 

And that is NOT old, by anyone's standards, anywhere.  Except yours.  He's good to perform at a high level for 5, 6, or maybe even 7 years.  If he trails a bit when he's 34, he'll STILL be a deal at 8 million, in the year 2021.

 

See the Sedins, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Thornton, Parise, Sharp, Carter, Spezza, Ribeiro, St. Louis, Hossa, Iginla..............for MANY examples of guys who play well and perform, into their 30's.

[J0e Th0rnton]

No, he's 27.  

 

And that is NOT old, by anyone's standards, anywhere.  Except yours.  He's good to perform at a high level for 5, 6, or maybe even 7 years.  If he trails a bit when he's 34, he'll STILL be a deal at 8 million, in the year 2021.

 

See the Sedins, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Thornton, Parise, Sharp, Carter, Spezza, Ribeiro, St. Louis, Hossa, Iginla..............for MANY examples of guys who play well and perform, into their 30's.

 

 

 

 

And then see the 10x as many examples of forwards who have a steep dropoff in production after age 27

 

He is 28 at the start of next season bud. His birthday is in October and he just had his worst season since age 21. It begins

[Holymakinaw]

And then see the 10x as many examples of forwards who have a steep dropoff in production after age 27

 

He is 28 at the start of next season bud. His birthday is in October and he just had his worst season since age 21. It begins

 

Well.......you're basing your whole argument on what MIGHT happen, or if you'll ever be honest, what you HOPE will happen, rather than on the facts to date.

 

Not surprising at all.

[yave1964]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

I jumped out of this one. Hard to try to have an adult conversation with someone who is trying to be abrasive and refuses to face facts.

 

Kessel:

Over the last five years has averaged 30 goals a year, an admirable stat.

 

That's it. That is the plus.

 

No leadership.

Slipped badly last year

Poor checker, poor defensive player

Makes 8 million a year for the next seven years.

Is third in that time in Minus rating behind two guys who played for the Oilers.

 

 I like Kessel, because the one skill he has is obviously key, scoring goals. It outweighs a lot of negatives. He makes for a better fantasy player than a real one.

 

I am not basing my argument on what may happen, I am basing it off Nonis giving out the worst contract in memory, and the player slipping to his lowest goals in a full season in years. If I were an NHL GM of course I would kick the tires and answer Shanny's calls, but the contract is an albatross that likely makes trading him all but impossible unless:

 

The Leafs settle for giving him away to get the contract off the books

Or

They eat salary.

 

There is no other way that he gets dealt. Give him away or if you expect anything back in return other than cap relief, you have to eat salary. No GM who wants to keep his job for five minutes would even think about doing more than that. Kessel would be suicide for a rival GM unless he gets him for nothing, and even then, it would have to be a GM who is fairly secure to explain to the owner that he is counting on a player who is out of shape coming off his worst year and who is known as a slouch throughout the league is worth spending 56 million dollars on. There are a lot of GM's willing to roll the dice but trading for Kessel might be the equivalent of playing Russian Roulette with a loaded gun.

 

Now is the time when Halibut boy junior jumps in his Lumina and drives to Applebee's where they have free wifi and retorts that Kessel is God. I think the two of them, Kessel's guy and Miller's guy need to meet up face to face and have a battle over who's hero is better.

[Holymakinaw]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

I jumped out of this one. Hard to try to have an adult conversation with someone who is trying to be abrasive and refuses to face facts.

 

Kessel:

Over the last five years has averaged 30 goals a year, an admirable stat.

 

That's it. That is the plus.

 

No leadership.

Slipped badly last year

Poor checker, poor defensive player

Makes 8 million a year for the next seven years.

Is third in that time in Minus rating behind two guys who played for the Oilers.

 

 I like Kessel, because the one skill he has is obviously key, scoring goals. It outweighs a lot of negatives. He makes for a better fantasy player than a real one.

 

I am not basing my argument on what may happen, I am basing it off Nonis giving out the worst contract in memory, and the player slipping to his lowest goals in a full season in years. If I were an NHL GM of course I would kick the tires and answer Shanny's calls, but the contract is an albatross that likely makes trading him all but impossible unless:

 

The Leafs settle for giving him away to get the contract off the books

Or

They eat salary.

 

There is no other way that he gets dealt. Give him away or if you expect anything back in return other than cap relief, you have to eat salary. No GM who wants to keep his job for five minutes would even think about doing more than that. Kessel would be suicide for a rival GM unless he gets him for nothing, and even then, it would have to be a GM who is fairly secure to explain to the owner that he is counting on a player who is out of shape coming off his worst year and who is known as a slouch throughout the league is worth spending 56 million dollars on. There are a lot of GM's willing to roll the dice but trading for Kessel might be the equivalent of playing Russian Roulette with a loaded gun.

 

Now is the time when Halibut boy junior jumps in his Lumina and drives to Applebee's where they have free wifi and retorts that Kessel is God. I think the two of them, Kessel's guy and Miller's guy need to meet up face to face and have a battle over who's hero is better.

 

LOL.  Wow.  What a complete joke.  No other opinions are worthy, huh?  Even if they happen to be right?  Instead of the possibility that you might be wrong, it's someone else who's "abrasive and refuses to face facts".

 

No sweat.  I get it.

 

[ruxpin]

Uh, Phil Kessel was in the top-8 in scoring for three straight years, and still had a 25 goal, 61 point season last year.

Toronto will not have to be "eating" even one bite of his salary, if they want to trade him. There will be some seriously interested teams out there.

No way--I mean no way--they move that cancer without paying nearly 50% of that utterly ridiculous contract. I don't care what team trades for him, I'm cutting myself if I'm a fan of that team.

You want to look for the epitome of the reason the Leafs stink, look squarely at Phat Phil.

[ruxpin]

Might have a little something to do with the TEAM he's currently on, huh?

No, the team is largely (deliberate word choice) because of him. They are actually going to have a much easier time (not easy. easi - ER) moving Phaneuf.

This isn't slant. This is honestly the view of the entire hockey world.

It's kind of ridiculous.

[jammer2]

  I agree with most in this thread.....most players start dropping off at 28ish....that is historically when guys point totals start going the other way, and they exit their prime. There was only *one* year where Phil averaged a point a game, and that was 82 pts in 82 games...every other season, less than a point per game....that is a fact.

 

  Last year he had 60 pts in 82 games, so that very well could be the *start* of his decline. Phil "the thrill" (LMAO!!) is totally dependent on his wheels to produce points. As soon as he loses a half a step, he will get more and more useless. One of the great all time "peripheral" players. Phil never met a corner he liked....lol.

 

 Bottom line for me....he is an out of shape (thus more susceptible to father time IMHO) coward who will never give full effort unless he "feels" like it. In the playoffs, you kinda want your 8 mill a year player to be a leader, but Kessel is not even close to being that type of player...not even close.

 

 Remember last year, when Phil proudly told us "there is two sets of rules around here, one for the rest of the team, and one for me"......well, Phil the thrill.....meet Mr.Babcock....who does NOT tolerate that kinda crap!!  Can't wait to see Phil HAVE to toe the line....has to be in tip top shape...or be benched.

 

 Think about this....Phil is signed for 7 MORE YEARS, until 2022 for an even 8 mill a year....and he has already started to decline....IMPOSSIBLE to move this contract without the Leafs chipping in LARGE money....a fat stinky loser that is only going to get fatter.....UM...NO......PASS....PUFF...PUFF......PASSSSS!!!!!

[flyercanuck]

No, he's 27.   Annoying facts.  

 

And that is NOT old, by anyone's standards, anywhere.  Except yours.  He's good to perform at a high level for 5, 6, or maybe even 7 years.  If he trails a bit when he's 34, he'll STILL be a deal at 8 million, in the year 2021.

 

See the Sedins, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Thornton, Parise, Sharp, Carter, Spezza, Ribeiro, St. Louis, Hossa, Iginla..............for MANY examples of guys who play well and perform, into their 30's.

 

 

 

Maybe you're out to lunch?

 

 

Those guys are in shape. A better career that might follow the same trajectory would be someone like Mike "Nacho" York.

[hf101]

Let's refrain from posting personalized comments towards other members as they detract from the topic being discussed sending the thread off topic.

 

[flyercanuck]

@hf101

 

Should I have called him "Peppermint Fatty"?

[hf101]

@hf101

 

Should I have called him "Peppermint Fatty"?

 

I clarified my post.  As my point is to limit personalized comments directed at members of these forums

[jammer2]

@hf101

 

Should I have called him "Peppermint Fatty"?

 

 LMAO!!

[jammer2]

@flyercanuck  "The pudgy peppermint"??

[flyercanuck]

@hf101

 

 

Just yankin your chain HF. 

[ruxpin]

@yave1964

The Leafs settle for giving him away to get the contract off the books

Or

They eat salary.

I suppose door number three is they trade one problem child/contact for another kind of like Clarkson. The options would be very limited there and don't think it's ideal, but I suppose it's possible.

It's unlikely even that happens without significant money going with him.

[J0e Th0rnton]

@yave1964

 

 

I suppose door number three is they trade one problem child/contact for another kind of like Clarkson. The options would be very limited there and don't think it's ideal, but I suppose it's possible.

It's unlikely even that happens without significant money going with him.

 

Saw a good quote regarding Kessel today.

 

"I think you mean "A player coming off a 25 goal/61 point season that hurts your team defensively at even strength, can't kill penalties, doesn't take draws, and is signed for 7 years at 8 million per with a actual salary of 10 million this upcoming season"

Funny how every the majority of Leaf fans on these boards are trying to unload kessel, and over 90% of the Kessel threads have been started by Leaf fans, trying to convince the rest of the league that Kessel is worth every penny of his contract, and the solution to their team's woes.... yet they don't want to keep him for their own rebuild, even though he is signed for 7 more years"

[ruxpin]

Funny how every the majority of Leaf fans on these boards are trying to unload kessel, and over 90% of the Kessel threads have been started by Leaf fans, trying to convince the rest of the league that Kessel is worth every penny of his contract, and the solution to their team's woes.... yet they don't want to keep him for their own rebuild, even though he is signed for 7 more years"

 

Extremely telling, huh?

 

But you're just slanting.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Extremely telling, huh?

 

But you're just slanting.