King Knut Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 but, but a new Coach will make EVERYONE better.... get a clue dude. You really believe you take any player off this Team and put them on a new Team they would not know how to play hockey. That is seriously a comment on TF84 would make.Please.... Who said that? The fact that they can put these guys on new teams and they DO know how to play hockey almost immediately is exactly what's informing my opinions. Coburn was slow, old, past his prime, washed up, has been, never was, lazy, bum, worthless, a pylon and a lump on this board last year. All year I kept arguing with people here, saying... "No, He's not worthless or that slow or a bum. He's out of position and when you're out of position you will always look slow and unable to make a play." Then he gets traded and low and behold, under cooper's system he knows where to skate to and when and he looks faster and more skilled and suddenly is a huge contributor and a huge key to the Bolts making the finals. When I say they don't know how to play hockey I mean the TEAM doesn't know how to play a winning successful modern hockey. It's not '87 anymore. It isn't up and down, chase the puck and hit 'em harder and make stuff happen. It's much more of a chess game with moving pieces AND all of the old stuff too. They know how to skate and pass and hit and poke check and shoot (though clearly they don't know how to score on a breakaway or P.S.). That doesn't mean they know how to play hockey in today's league. Jake and G were the best players on the ice last year, but they were playing pond hockey and the rest of the league was playing professional hockey. Of course they can play the kind of game they need to. They need a damn coach. I HAVE to believe that Hakstol is going to do this. I simply can't accept that Hextall would go through the trouble of firing his old team mate (under whom this team looked so awful and clueless) and replace him with an x's and o's guy from college, JUST to have the new guy play the same formless shapeless out of position system as Chief had them play. I know it's not true because of (if nothing else) where the Defensemen are playing. I can only hope the "tweaks" to the neutral zone are far more than tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 @ Brelic.... I thought this was an interesting blurb on BSH about Gudas and I agree: Radko Gudas has been a major disappointment so far. While his career stats paint a picture of a defenseman with offensive instincts, Gudas has looked horrific with the puck on his stick in preseason. Rumors have surfaced that Luke Schenn may be on the trading block, but if the plan is to replace Schenn with Gudas, the organization may want to hold off until Gudas shows signs of improvement. And that's not impossible - don't forget that Nick Schultz was painful to watch during last year's preseason, and he became a steady contributor in the regular season. But it would still be nice to see something from Gudas before the puck drops next Thursday. I agree that Gudas has looked every bit as bad as Schenn, but I disagree about keeping Schenn. If we're going to have mediocre on a bottom pairing, I'd rather the team have $990k than $3.6M committed to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 @ King Knut The system, or the lack thereof, can certainly make a night-and-day difference in the final outcome of the game, and eventually, the season. But if the player is just not good, no system and no coach will change that. McDudd is the primary example. The guy plain stinks. He can't play. Even if you bring the team full of best coaches ever, nothing will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 You mean like Wayne Simmonds was talking about?Which isn't at all what the captain says.Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I have seen GREAT systems Coaches who are horrible managing the game. In fact, I played for one in College... The guy was a great tactician but a complete idiot when it came to actually teaching the system. You can have an amazing system but if you can't Teach that system it is for nothing. There is a difference b/t understanding the system and TEACHING people how to execute it. Same message but it is delivered two different ways... Nobody is ripping Hak here... but if the Players are saying the system is nearly identical maybe it was the way Berube was teaching the system. And to Rad's point this Team is still Homers mess. Hextall literally is handcuffed w/ these contracts. Until he can move (God willing) some of these horrid deals we really wont know what Hextall is going to bring. They literally have no salary cap to work with... You need a Coach who can actually coach and teach. And you need the players to execute the system. Period - the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 @ King Knut The system, or the lack thereof, can certainly make a night-and-day difference in the final outcome of the game, and eventually, the season. But if the player is just not good, no system and no coach will change that. McDudd is the primary example. The guy plain stinks. He can't play. Even if you bring the team full of best coaches ever, nothing will change that. as the old saying goes - talent wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 as the old saying goes - talent wins More often than not, yes, that is usually the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 It's not me "being right" it's what the captain said Quite possible that he's full of it, but that sentiment (that it's pretty much the same system) has been echoed by other players and reporters. Of all the players that "Hextall" brought it you can include: Schultz, del Zotto, Umburglar, Gagner, Medvedev, Bellemare, Gudas, White, Porter and Neuvirth. Of that we can include del Zotto as a "top tier talent" with the jury out on Medvedev at the moment. This is still very much Holmgren's team. I do believe that Hakstol is going to demand more accountability and that he's a better coach than Berube. But if this team is going to go with the "no doubt we're a playoff team" mentality after one round in three years then they're in trouble. They need to be pedal to the metal all game, every game. Accountability alone isn't going to help. He needs to enable them to enact when he expects. And frankly if he doesn't have a better system in mind, then none of this will mean anything.I know he does. It may not feel drastically different to them and maybe that's a good thing, but the defense is already playing differently. I hope the transition game is smarter and that guys like Jake and G waste less time and energy uselessly trying to play every position on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Bingo!Bingo what? What's Bingo? They're not going to do anything differently? We're happy about this? THis is the point you're trying to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 as the old saying goes - talent wins There's more than one kind of talent at work in a hockey game and not all of it is on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 We're happy about this? I'm certainly not happy with it. I'm not happy with what's going on in Syria, either. But that doesn't mean talking about it means you're "happy" with it. And it does remain to be seen if it's ("it" being "the same system") accurate. And while, yes, the topic of this post is a preseason game, it wasn't terribly reassuring to see the team blow a 2-goal lead on the road in the third period and then lose (another) shootout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 What rad said.... I am over this discussion that keeps going in circles...Boohoo... the wangers pwayed tough hockey against the poor fwyers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 They need some snarl and meanness on the back end. Gudas and Schenn just aren't that. They really need Morin back there. At this point, I could care less if Sam ever develops into a 20 point scoring defenseman. I want him to be mean, physical and just a nightmare for the opposition to play against. They get that much needed heavy back there, and that toughness will spread. I get what Hextall is trying to do but damn, get some toughness on this team. Not good/Rosehill toughness, but toughness like a Lucic or letting Morin develop with the Flyers instead of the Phantoms. Get someone on this team that will be a nightmare for the opponents to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 What rad said.... I am over this discussion that keeps going in circles...Boohoo... the wangers pwayed tough hockey against the poor fwyers...Just seemed kinda desperate to me. That's all. Be an ass in two weeks. Now it's just kind of a dick move with no real purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 They need some snarl and meanness on the back end. Gudas and Schenn just aren't that. They really need Morin back there. At this point, I could care less if Sam ever develops into a 20 point scoring defenseman. I want him to be mean, physical and just a nightmare for the opposition to play against. They get that much needed heavy back there, and that toughness will spread. I get what Hextall is trying to do but damn, get some toughness on this team. Not good/Rosehill toughness, but toughness like a Lucic or letting Morin develop with the Flyers instead of the Phantoms. Get someone on this team that will be a nightmare for the opponents to play against. But. But bit Are you crazy! We can't jeopardize the future by playing Morin now! Maybe when he's 30 we can give him a go, but now? He might get confused or down in himself or some other B.S. That everyone here keeps spewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 But. But bit Are you crazy! We can't jeopardize the future by playing Morin now! Maybe when he's 30 we can give him a go, but now? He might get confused or down in himself or some other B.S. That everyone here keeps spewing.He would be playing if he was good enough. He isn't. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatic Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 If this is truly the game they mean to play, Hextall should be fired immediately and replaced with a GM who has never worn Flyer Orange in his life. These players are capable of more. If Hakstol's goin to run with the same lack of a system as last year then shame on him, shame on hexy and shame on all of us for thinking different was possible. A new system will take time to implement, but I can't really see the wisdom of not at least starting to try. Maybe they're going to go in dribs and drabs and tiny tiny increments, but I just don't see why.KK, Hakstol's system requires the forwards to backcheck deep into the defensive zone and d'men to penetrate/pinch deep into the offensive zone. In camp the rookies could do it. They can and expect to skate hard. It was exciting hockey. Unfortunately, last and this years Flyers just aren't good enough to implement the changes necessary to make the system effective. Therefore we are stuck with what we had last year, and have presently, until Hextall figures out how to clear the pipes of the sludge. The definition of insanity: to expect different results when doing the same thing. The good thing is that 2016 is supposed to be another great draft year. Attrition of some players and wise trading of others might yield and exciting team in 2016/2017 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 He might get confused or down in himself or some other B.S. That everyone here keeps spewing. If by "everyone here" you mean, for example, the Flyers general manager and coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 He would be playing if he was good enough. He isn't. Deal with it.A) that wasn't my point b) that's not necessarily true and we all know it. c). I've dealt with it! I'm still going to be sarcastic from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 KK, Hakstol's system requires the forwards to backcheck deep into the defensive zone and d'men to penetrate/pinch deep into the offensive zone. In camp the rookies could do it. They can and expect to skate hard. It was exciting hockey. Unfortunately, last and this years Flyers just aren't good enough to implement the changes necessary to make the system effective. Therefore we are stuck with what we had last year, and have presently, until Hextall figures out how to clear the pipes of the sludge. The definition of insanity: to expect different results when doing the same thing. The good thing is that 2016 is supposed to be another great draft year. Attrition of some players and wise trading of others might yield and exciting team in 2016/2017 season."Simply aren't good enough" isn't a good enough explanation. Especially when half to a third of the defense is new. Coburn wasn't good enough last year. Until he got traded and suddenly was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 If by "everyone here" you mean, for example, the Flyers general manager and coach.Right because they always tell th complete truth and also are never wrong. Oh yeah, I'm being g sarcastic, so maybe it's best not tired to argue with my bitchy sarcastic frustration. Our team sucks. We got a new coach but apparently our team can't play his system because they suck too much despite having the best player in the world, the guy who out scored him, the best kind defensive forward in the league and the best player not in the NHL circa 2012. We've got a better team In the minors and juniors who cannily the system, but we can't rush them so we're not bringing them up, never mind the fact that we literally can't bring them up because of the cap. It's sorta kinda a frustrating situation. I think we all get a little leeway in the sarcasm front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Right because they always tell th complete truth and also are never wrong.Oh yeah, I'm being g sarcastic, so maybe it's best not tired to argue with my bitchy sarcastic frustration.Our team sucks. We got a new coach but apparently our team can't play his system because they suck too much despite having the best player in the world, the guy who out scored him, the best kind defensive forward in the league and the best player not in the NHL circa 2012. We've got a better team In the minors and juniors who cannily the system, but we can't rush them so we're not bringing them up, never mind the fact that we literally can't bring them up because of the cap.It's sorta kinda a frustrating situation. I think we all get a little leeway in the sarcasm front. KK, it *is* frustrating. That I won't argue. The team wasn't good enough last year. They are not good enough today, still. If anybody tries to sell that the Flyers are a great team - they are lying. We are reaping the fruits of what could have been the worst GM'ing in the history of this franchise. The mistakes of that magnitude are not easily erasable. But give it time. Rome wasn't built overnight. I, for one, believe in this GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 "Simply aren't good enough" isn't a good enough explanation. Especially when half to a third of the defense is new.Coburn wasn't good enough last year. Until he got traded and suddenly was.He wasn't anywhere near good enough in orange and black last season, and a change of scenery was "just what the doctor ordered for him. He was the "Good Coburn" in Tampa because his partner wasn't 40 (I say that even though Kimmo was still good up to his last days in Philly), playing with Garrison allowed him to relax and play his game, and also he was better coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 You forgot one thing Howie, the O and B still suck at shootouts.Yes....but with a new twist...a penalty shot. Peace, Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 He wasn't anywhere near good enough in orange and black last season, and a change of scenery was "just what the doctor ordered for him. He was the "Good Coburn" in Tampa because his partner wasn't 40 (I say that even though Kimmo was still good up to his last days in Philly), playing with Garrison allowed him to relax and play his game, and also he was better coached. Was Coburn really that night and day, or was it more of a confirmation bias? I don't believe for a second that a 30-year old player just magically changed his game. He was probably the same guy and the way people looked at him changed more than the player did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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