brelic Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Why is everyone so quick to jump to conclusions....give it time...surely like you stated with basically the same roster you didn't expect Hak to come in and wave his magic wand and turn this group into a Cup contender. It will take time and i'm pretty sure some sort of roster turnover... I have been of the opinion since the beginning that this is not a playoff team. Middle of the pack like last year, may have an outside shot in best case scenario, but realistically just outside of the playoffs. And I am completely ok with that. Since it's basically the same roster as last year, there's not much to get excited about, is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 That's a nasty combination of faults right there. He should pick one of those to either improve on or stop doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 A coach can only do so much, but at the end it's the players who execute the plan. And if dump-and-chase is all these players know, no coach can change that. If this is true (and I honestly don't accept it as the "simplest" solution, then these offending players need to be traded, bought out or waived as the CBA allows. And I don't care if that means Giroux and Voracek. If you're telling me they can't learn anything other than Dump and Chase, then they need to go IMMEDIATELY before they're too old and no one will pay for their 8 million a year any more. I'm not losing patience - I am definitely on board with Hextall's approach, and I think we are headed for excellent teams in the long run. What is Hextall's approach exactly? I've just had it explained multiple times over the past few days that They're not even trying to change their game (although the D pinching and positioning inside their own zone betrays the contrary). "Even the captain said nothing's changed much!" So we have three possible explanations: 1) That observation is incorrect.2) The observation is correct and they're not going to change anything.3) The observation is correct so far and it's going to take time to effect that change. I guess we're all hoping it's #3, but it would be nice if someone would effing say something to it and not play the Holmgren style, "betray nothing, say nothing, clam up and be grumpy in press conferences" card. Just tell us... we're working on some long term on ice paradigm shifts that are going to take a while to develop. But don't let GIroux and Hextall go out there and say "We're not changing much." WE NEED TO BE PLACATED, ASSUAGED and CALMED THE EFF DOWN. Homer, Hexy, Snider, Clarke... WE ARE PISSED AT YOU. WE DO NOT TRUST YOU. AND WE'RE THE ONES WHO EFFING PAY YOU! THROW US A FRIGGIN' BONE HERE PEOPLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I have been of the opinion since the beginning that this is not a playoff team. Middle of the pack like last year, may have an outside shot in best case scenario, but realistically just outside of the playoffs. And I am completely ok with that. Since it's basically the same roster as last year, there's not much to get excited about, is there? I completely agree. Some of it should be just a different mindset....they need some intensity like someone said was lost when the kids were removed...there is still time but it must start now. Edit: I don't expect Hextall to just remain seated if they start to struggle early for long he will make moves this season try to get into the playoffs...not Homer type moves but more conservative like he did last year sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 WE NEED TO BE PLACATED, ASSUAGED and CALMED THE EFF DOWN. Homer, Hexy, Snider, Clarke... WE ARE PISSED AT YOU. WE DO NOT TRUST YOU. AND WE'RE THE ONES WHO EFFING PAY YOU! THROW US A FRIGGIN' BONE HERE PEOPLE! Yeah get em.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 What is Hextall's approach exactly? Hextall doesn't control the on-ice portion. I mean his vision for how he wants to construct a championship team - strong drafting, proper development periods, a strong link between the farm and the big boy club, a coach that fits his vision of puck pursuit and speed off the transition (which may take time to fill with the right personnel). All of these things I am on board with and have wanted for YEARS in the Flyers system. So, I love it. It's just the product in the meantime is not terribly exciting to watch. Hey, you know what? Maybe by the 20-game mark, they get their act together and become an exciting team to watch even if they hover around .500. That would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yes. Occam's Razor. The principle, not the poster I'm not losing patience - I am definitely on board with Hextall's approach, and I think we are headed for excellent teams in the long run. The intent of my original post was just to say that during this "patient" portion of it, it's gonna suck a whole lot. I already saw glimpses of it last night. Listless, without hustle or purpose, and shoddy defense. I *know* it will be fixed and I *know* it will get better over time - but until then? Ugh. oh yeah.. and I agree. I wasn't singling you out as losing patience at all. It's just a general sense from a collection of fan sites and articles I'm reading. Patience has never been in the Philadelphia Flyer genome. Why start now!? ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 It really is a problem of personnel. Others have said that we should simply cut the dead weight and accept our losses. I think this is foolish thinking. We all need to remain patient and try to move some pieces OF value FOR value. Whatever that value is.. it's gonna be better than NOTHING. The real factor here is time... and time requires patience. I can already feel the air leaking out of our collective patience balloon here. Completely agree, Bak. The Flyers traveled the road of win-now how many times now? And it got them where exactly? They need to be patient. And the fans need to be patient. Even The Old Man finally seems to has gotten out of the way for Hexy to implement this long-term plan, which I thought would NEVER happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 a coach that fits his vision of puck pursuit and speed off the transition I just hope that's what we've got here. Personally I'd rather see him trying this with a team that can't pull it off than NOT trying at all. It scares me that this season is just a shrug. Aren't the likes of Coots, Giroux, Jake and Simmonds going to have to execute this kind of game when Ghost, Sanheim, Kokecks, Provo, Morin, etc are ready to do it with them? Especially if this season is a wash anyway. Again, if I'm wrong and there's a GOOD reason not to start instituting his 'plan' I'd love to hear it. Why can't the tell us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Completely agree, Bak. The Flyers traveled the road of win-now how many times now? And it got them where exactly? They need to be patient. And the fans need to be patient. Even The Old Man finally seems to has gotten out of the way for Hexy to implement this long-term plan, which I thought would NEVER happen. I'm not just going to be patient on trust. Talk to us. Tell us what you're thinking. If we're just going to have to wade through a couple more years of "Suck" in the mean time, tell us why and what you're thinking. What can it hurt? I don't want them to win now. I want them to lose now learning how to play to win. Losing now, continuing to play the same losing brand of hockey seems excessively futile. Obviously they're not competing for a cup this year, so start LEARNING how to play the game that will get you there. And if THESE players simply can't learn that stuff and can't get us there, then to hell with them. Not in the name of winning now, but specifically in the name of winning then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Four of the top six forwards are signed for at least the next four seasons and they don't know anything more than dump-and-chase and can't learn anything different? If true, that, my friend, is terrifying. OK, for starters, as painful as it may be for us to admit, the forwards on this roster who have more in their arsenal than dump-and-chase are Giroux and Voracek. And Voracek is still not your ideal finesse player, but that's beside the point. The rest of the forwards are not in danger of winning skating or passing competition any time soon, I am afraid. I like Simmonds; I like him a lot. But he is a power forward who thrives on doing dirty work and scoring ugly goals. The rest of the forwards - do we really need to argue here? Also, the last time I checked, a rush begins from your blue line. And who are the blue liners as of this moment? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Someone else's opinion...... It's not time to panic quite yet, but the apparent first defense pairing of Mark Streit and Nick Schultz has been severely underwhelming so far in preseason. While other pairings are supporting the forwards' aggressive forecheck by moving forward and essentially cutting the rink in half at the red line, Streit and Schultz still are playing the passive, "sit back and keep them to the outside" style of the Berube era. The tactic results in a large gap between the forechecking forwards and backtracking defensemen, which allows opposing forwards to skate in at full speed if they are able to elude the forwards. Hopefully Streit and Schultz can clean this up on Friday. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The rest of the forwards - do we really need to argue here? Not really "arguing" at all, but I do think that professional hockey players should be able to develop a little more well-rounded game. And I do think that a coach should be able to get more out of his players. And, it is a little terrifying that it could easily be another season (or two) before the Flyers seriously are challenging for the playoffs. #homercoaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I dont see much of a difference. I know its a new coach and its only preseason but I was hoping to see a different "style" of play. The team couldnt do anything in 2010. Lavi came in and I could tell in the first game that he had a new exciting system that would turn the team around.Hakstol might have a good system that will take some time and he might need to have the right players for that system. The first 3 games we up tempo but as soon as the young guys were cut, we go back to the old boring crap we saw last year. Last night was a typical 14/15 flyers game. Start slow, go down early, draw penalties, score PP goals to get back in it, then do nothing and blow it at the end.They have no transition game. If I see schenn look for an outlet then turn back in his own zone one more time, I'll lose it. Make a decision and pass it! How many times do you see three or four "clean, tape-to-tape" passes from the flyers leaving the zone. Everything is off the boards, off a leg, in the air, off a skate, or behind the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I like Simmonds; I like him a lot. But he is a power forward who thrives on doing dirty work and scoring ugly goals. How would we know? The rest of the forwards - do we really need to argue here? Coots, Schenn, Laughton... maybe we do. And who are the blue liners as of this moment? Exactly. If we can't get a good first pass from skating puck movers like Streit and MDZ, then I propose that the problem lies in what they're trying to do and where they're trying to pass to. AKA... System. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Sam Carchidi @BroadStBull 11m11 minutes agoHextall was asked about the decision to keep or send down Manning or Laughton: “We have other options," he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 “We have other options," he said. Xmas in October? Vinny, Luke, VLC and Umbie traded for a bag of jocks and one puck that was accidentally left in the janitors closet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 They could easily waive Gudas (the Konecny pick will likely be the showpiece from the Coburn deal) Or a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 They could easily waive Gudas (the Konecny pick will likely be the showpiece from the Coburn deal) Or a trade. that could be the case rad... not sure I would really be that upset based on what I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 How would we know? Coots, Schenn, Laughton... maybe we do. If we can't get a good first pass from skating puck movers like Streit and MDZ, then I propose that the problem lies in what they're trying to do and where they're trying to pass to. AKA... System. How would we know what?? You weren't watching Simmonds? I don't understand your point about Schenn, Couturier and Laughton. These are the players (especially Couturier) who succeed in the puck pursuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I don't understand your point.. You had me right there! No need to read further! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 How would we know what?? You weren't watching Simmonds?I don't understand your point about Schenn, Couturier and Laughton. These are the players (especially Couturier) who succeed in the puck pursuit. Have we ever attempted to play any of them in any other kind of role? Schenn and Coots' first half a season... when they scored more... maybe... maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 They could easily waive Gudas (the Konecny pick will likely be the showpiece from the Coburn deal) Or a trade. Or waive Luke or Mcdud...or Vandevelde they have a couple options or just trade someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Greetings: I think we will have to wait until Thanksgiving to see any or all of the following: 1) A new coach's imprint;2) Injuries that lead to call-up of "new-and-improved" players;3) Trades that improve the team. The broken record is that. I think the D is OK and Mason will survive a lot of rubber. But our forward corps is not much after the G-V-S. Short-term, compete level (to use Hakstol's favorite coach cliche) will be better. I don't know how long that compensates for limited talent level and organization that seems to draft "mucker/grinders" who play "Flyers Hockey." Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I completely agree. Some of it should be just a different mindset....they need some intensity like someone said was lost when the kids were removed...there is still time but it must start now.Edit: I don't expect Hextall to just remain seated if they start to struggle early for long he will make moves this season try to get into the playoffs...not Homer type moves but more conservative like he did last year sort of.I would love to see him make moves that enable any and all healthy prospects able to play in the NHL at that point to play with the big club by the end of the year. If they're not making the playoffs, the post deadline, pre-playoff stretch should be prepping and building for the future as much as possible. IMHO that means getting some of the youth Some limited playing time. They'll need to know what they'll be working all off season for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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