New Flyers same as the old Flyers?

[brelic]

As we're getting closer and closer to the final roster, and as we're playing teams that are also closer to final roster, doesn't it just look like a lot more of the same?

 

Last night was a perfect example, wasn't it? Dump and chase, turnovers under pressure, and not moving their feet when pursuing the puck carrier.

 

What does everyone else think? Of course it's still preseason, and it's a new coach working on a new system, so there will be tons of bumps along the way. But last night's game was the kind that made the team unwatchable for long stretches last year.

 

 

[doom88]

Blow it up!

[murraycraven]

It certainly seems to be more of the same but I think we need to give it time.   The fact is this Team is nearly identical to last year so aside to a few tweaks to the system there is really nothing else that can be done.   Coaches coach and Players play - unfortunately, a group of our players can't play anymore.  Frankly, I am not expecting much difference than last year.  My only hope is that Hak actually holds people accountable and is better at communicating.  Overall this is another year of retooling/rebuilding.  

 

Until trades are made and a few contracts run out it will be more of the same. We dont have the depth to win...

[OccamsRazor]

Trade everyone.....................................and let's rebuild around Vinny and Mcdud!!!

[pilldoc]

It certainly seems to be more of the same but I think we need to give it time.   The fact is this Team is nearly identical to last year so aside to a few tweaks to the system there is really nothing else that can be done.   Coaches coach and Players play - unfortunately, a group of our players can't play anymore.  Frankly, I am not expecting much difference than last year.  My only hope is that Hak actually holds people accountable and is better at communicating.  Overall this is another year of retooling/rebuilding.  

 

Until trades are made and a few contracts run out it will be more of the same. We dont have the depth to win...

 

^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!!

 

@murraycraven

 

Exactly and well said. I am certainly not a doom and gloom fan. However, I am a realist and realize what the honest expectations of this season are. This is/will be a year of transition. As you pu it, I want Hakstol to hold players accountable and at least instill some type of system. I agree, until Hextall and Hakstol can bring in the players they want, I must sadly agree we could be looking at a carbon copy of last year. Is this team horrible to be a top 5 pick? Probably not, Is this team a fringe playoff team? Could be depending on how players respond to Hakstol. Is this a team built for a deep playoff run? No.

 

As I have said many times. I am ok sending the kids back to either the AHL or their respective Junior teams. No sense in rushing them. Our time is coming, but we have to be patient and that this something a vast majority of the Flyers fanbase is unwilling to accept.

 

Great post MC!

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Yep.

 

Gotta give it time.

I think most understand the Flyers aren't going to be turned around overnight, but really, regardless of how "close" the roster is to a regular season set up, it IS just that: Pre-season.

 

I watched the Lightning scramble around pretty badly in the defensive zone against the Pens the other night and although it bugged me to see that, I kept reminding myself that that sort of play is pretty common in pre-season and for now, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Same with Philadelphia.

Now, we get in about 10-15 games or so and stuff still looks like last year, THEN it may be a griping point.

But then again, the Flyers WILL struggle just to make the top 8 this year, given their quasi-rebuild and the improved competition they will be facing....and like was already mentioned, as long as certain players are still on the team, well, expect similar results.

 

But Hextall has done a good job in removing less useful players during the off season and I suspect he will continue to do so, if he can, as the season wears on.

In the meantime, it is up to the vets on the team to at least put on a decent showing and up to the young players to step up their games while the team sorts itself out.

[OccamsRazor]

Seems to be just to big a gap between the forwards and Dmen i admit i didn't watch a lot of it and can say it happened all the time. But i can't tell if that is being coach or just the fact the blueline is littered with offensive Dmen and the ones who are better at defense are just too slow. To me the back peddle to much instead of challenging anyone.

 

Like i said i need to see more to be sure. And i can't say that is or isn't what Hak wants.

 

Also they need to blow up Streit and Schultz....just not getting it done.

[mojo1917]

Schenn or Gudas v Grossmann i would rather have Grossmann.

 

the thing i have noticed is since the youngsters were sent back to their respective teams is the Flyers look slower and less skilled.  I know that "can't really be the case" but the difference between the split squad games i watched and the 20 minutes i watched last night vs a bad Devils team was drastically different in terms of puck pursuit and and possession. the ss games it looked like there were 6 flyers to the rangers 5 . last night everyone looked indecisive with the puck and less skilled.

I found that very odd.

I like Medvedev's game, and wow he's a lot bigger than i was expecting.  

I thought Manning looked good too , he may stick as the 7th and that would be fine by me.

I think this will be a tough season for us fans, because i think this team will play in fits and starts and without a lot of consistent good play.

[murraycraven]

@mojo1917,

I rather see manning as a regular over Gudas whO I think has been really bad.

[OccamsRazor]

but the difference between the split squad games i watched and the 20 minutes i watched last night vs a bad Devils team was drastically different in terms of puck pursuit and and possession.

 

That is huge. And i think in time this season those guys will be identified after trying to coach them up and removed from the lineup. It will take time i think. I think they will be given a chance to be coached up and then when they are sure they just ain't getting it or just don't fit Hexy will get them a bus ticket out of town.

[King Knut]

As we're getting closer and closer to the final roster, and as we're playing teams that are also closer to final roster, doesn't it just look like a lot more of the same?

 

Last night was a perfect example, wasn't it? Dump and chase, turnovers under pressure, and not moving their feet when pursuing the puck carrier.

 

What does everyone else think? Of course it's still preseason, and it's a new coach working on a new system, so there will be tons of bumps along the way. But last night's game was the kind that made the team unwatchable for long stretches last year.

I have been informed in another thread that Hakstol isn't bothering to institute his "system" because the current players can't hak it (like how I did that).

The younger ones apparently can, but we can't play them yet because they're not good enough and we'll ruin their development... even though they're the only ones who can play the system.

 

Makes perfect sense to me...

no wait.  it really doesn't.   

 

They really need to play a different game.  OTherwise, what the F was the point?

[King Knut]

Schenn or Gudas v Grossmann i would rather have Grossmann.

 

Grossman was the contract Hextall could move.  That's 3 million we get to spend on Medvedev and go towards Jake and Coots' new contracts. 

 

Gudas is still pretty green isn't he?  He's only played one full season with the Lightning and at 25, he's just now at the point where we seem to expect D men to be able to play in the NHL... nevermind the good ones who can play when they're 18.

 

Not saying he's going to be good, but I'm far more concerned about the lack of anything different under Hakstol so far.  I'd rather see a team that's trying to play a different game and just not being able to put it together yet and getting beat than a team not playing very differently at all. 

I don't get it.  what was the point again?

[King Knut]

I rather see manning as a regular over Gudas whO I think has been really bad.

 

I agree.  There needs to be some sign of life somewhere on this team.  Everyone's just going through the motions now and it scares the crap out of me. 

[OccamsRazor]

I agree.  There needs to be some sign of life somewhere on this team.  Everyone's just going through the motions now and it scares the crap out of me. 

 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if Hextall was to swing a trade to make room and at the same time send a message to shake them up and say ok "who is next on the way out???"

[Podein25]

Gudas is still pretty green isn't he? 

 

 

It's a good point. I honestly can't say I know his game based on limited viewings, none recent. Can he skate is the question? I'd like an objective appraisal here please. Can he ******* skate?

[OccamsRazor]

Can he ****** skate?

 

Only down hill with the wind at his back...............

[King Knut]

the thing i have noticed is since the youngsters were sent back to their respective teams is the Flyers look slower and less skilled.

 

 

I completely agree.  And I don't think it was just them, I think they spurred the vets into trying more to keep up with them. 

Why we don't want that on the team is beyond me unless Hextall's going for a top 5 pick on purpose this year... which he should have been doing last year, but Berube didn't "get it".

 

Honestly, Hakstol wasn't going anywhere.  If you're not going to play a new system, WTF make any changes for another year until you've "developed" your youth enough to play them?

 

I agree on Manning.  He makes the club right now for my money and he plays before Schenn or Gudas as far as I'm concerned.  Luke has done nothing to suggest that he wants to be an NHL player at this point.  His brother is at least in the thick of things trying to make stuff happen.  I have no idea what Luke is doing. 

 

And quite frankly, I have no idea what Hextall or Hakstol is doing at this point.

If they could even just hold a press conference and not even tell us what they're doing, but tell us, "Hey... I know... CHill.  We got this.  There's a plan.  It may not look like it now, but there's a plan."

 

But at least acknowledge that these games are starting to look really really depressing.

[King Knut]

I wouldn't be shocked if Hextall was to swing a trade to make room and at the same time send a message to shake them up and say ok "who is next on the way out???"

 

Who could he trade that would "shake them up" that we'd actually want gone though?

 

Anyone he would trade that I wouldn't be ticked about, the rest of the team would probably just think, "Whew.  Glad that's over with."

 

I mean is he going to trade G or Jake or Simmer or MDZ or Streit?  I highly doubt it.  There goes your season and a lot more probably if he does. 

Is he going to trade Coots after giving him the new "Hakstol's favorite" deal?

 

B. Schenn is the only guy I could see the rest of the team thinking, "Oh crap... let's wake up now."

 

ALso, there is a voice in the back of my head who is observing that Jake and G and Simmer at least really aren't playing at full speed yet.  That matters.

 

How much will it matter if everyone else already is?  I shudder at the thought.

[FD19372]

As we're getting closer and closer to the final roster, and as we're playing teams that are also closer to final roster, doesn't it just look like a lot more of the same?

 

Last night was a perfect example, wasn't it? Dump and chase, turnovers under pressure, and not moving their feet when pursuing the puck carrier.

 

What does everyone else think? Of course it's still preseason, and it's a new coach working on a new system, so there will be tons of bumps along the way. But last night's game was the kind that made the team unwatchable for long stretches last year.

I think its just a case of 1) Face it, we all knew that this team wasn't talented enough going into training camp. 2) The team hasn't rid itself of what I would like to call "The Stench of Berube" or in French "Eau de Berube". It's not my money, but even if it was, I would have gotten to the point last year of simply CUTTING the dead weight off this team and accepting whatever hefty financial toll there is. Sometimes you have to do stuff you don't want to. I'm talking to you, Ed Snider. You can't turn crap into gold an you can't get install a system overriding what a goon coach taught them for two seasons. It doesn't happen overnight. I think maybe they should consult a witch doctor, perfect time of year for it. I wasn't drinking much of the Flyer Kool-aid this season.

[Bakanekimiwa]

As we're getting closer and closer to the final roster, and as we're playing teams that are also closer to final roster, doesn't it just look like a lot more of the same?

 

Last night was a perfect example, wasn't it? Dump and chase, turnovers under pressure, and not moving their feet when pursuing the puck carrier.

 

What does everyone else think? Of course it's still preseason, and it's a new coach working on a new system, so there will be tons of bumps along the way. But last night's game was the kind that made the team unwatchable for long stretches last year.

 

 

Yup... the only discernible difference I've noticed is that the D are getting caught pinching more and the forwards still aren't covering well enough. In other words, Not only do they look to be playing Berube's system poorly... they've added really bad pinching into the mix. 

[radoran]

That's 3 million we get to spend on Medvedev and go towards Jake and Coots' new contracts.

 

Grossmann's contract was up after this year. Vee and Couturier's new contracts start next season. The two have nothing to do with each other.

 

In fact, the Flyers retained $500K in salary in the Grossmann deal so it doesn't fully fund Medvedev, either.

 

That said, I'm happier with Medvedev than Grossmann and Medvedev hasn't even played an NHL game yet.

.

I agree.  There needs to be some sign of life somewhere on this team.  Everyone's just going through the motions now and it scares the crap out of me. 

 

This is what really bugs me about this team. There is an air of entitlement, despite one playoff round in three years.

 

That, I think, is what set the younguns apart - that they were actually working for something. Umburglar is desperate to remove the stink of last season. And Medvedev, too, has something to prove.

 

Beyond that, they're coming off as fat and happy - having actually "achieved" not much at all.

 

They need a hot start out of the gate and to keep that engine running at peak performance this season.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if Hextall was to swing a trade to make room and at the same time send a message to shake them up and say ok "who is next on the way out???"

 

Ah, the Scottie Upshall approach.

 

Because that worked out so well.

 

[OccamsRazor]

Who could he trade that would "shake them up" that we'd actually want gone though?

 

Anyone he would trade that I wouldn't be ticked about, the rest of the team would probably just think, "Whew.  Glad that's over with."

 

I mean is he going to trade G or Jake or Simmer or MDZ or Streit?  I highly doubt it.  There goes your season and a lot more probably if he does. 

Is he going to trade Coots after giving him the new "Hakstol's favorite" deal?

 

B. Schenn is the only guy I could see the rest of the team thinking, "Oh crap... let's wake up now."

 

ALso, there is a voice in the back of my head who is observing that Jake and G and Simmer at least really aren't playing at full speed yet.  That matters.

 

How much will it matter if everyone else already is?  I shudder at the thought.

 

 

We'll have to wait and see it could be anyone.

[Mad Dog]

As we're getting closer and closer to the final roster, and as we're playing teams that are also closer to final roster, doesn't it just look like a lot more of the same?

 

Last night was a perfect example, wasn't it? Dump and chase, turnovers under pressure, and not moving their feet when pursuing the puck carrier.

 

What does everyone else think? Of course it's still preseason, and it's a new coach working on a new system, so there will be tons of bumps along the way. But last night's game was the kind that made the team unwatchable for long stretches last year.

 

The explanation for this is actually very simple: it's still the same personnel, for the most part.  A coach can only do so much, but at the end it's the players who execute the plan.  And if dump-and-chase is all these players know, no coach can change that.

[Bakanekimiwa]

The explanation for this is actually very simple: it's still the same personnel, for the most part.  A coach can only do so much, but at the end it's the players who execute the plan.  And if dump-and-chase is all these players know, no coach can change that.

 

It really is a problem of personnel. Others have said that we should simply cut the dead weight and accept our losses. I think this is foolish thinking. We all need to remain patient and try to move some pieces OF value FOR value. Whatever that value is.. it's gonna be better than NOTHING. 

 

The real factor here is time... and time requires patience. I can already feel the air leaking out of our collective patience balloon here. 

[FD19372]

Just their defensive coverage and their skating through the pre-season makes me think this team has a LOOONG way to go. "It's the same old story, same old song old, same old song and dance my friends".