Trade Giroux to Nashville?

[ruxpin]

I was thinking BSchen-Giroux-Voracek. Jake did all his damage on the right side, Giroux is a creative, fast center and Schenn can bang and dig with the best of them. I know he'd rather be in the middle but skating with Giroux/Voracek ought to be considered a prize assignment (provided Jake gets it going - and I have no doubt he will).

I just like Schenn better on the right side. If Voracek is willing to switch, fine. Otherwise, Voracek might work for awhile on he second line.

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor

 

Those are good parts to a package, but they better be adding.

 

 

I wasn't saying straight up. Just a starting point of the suggestion.

[OccamsRazor]

The jets have 2 first line centers already. Why would they trade their superstar winger in the making for a 3rd?

 

 

None as skilled as Giroux though.

[J0e Th0rnton]

None as skilled as Giroux though.

Still a position they do not need to improve on. Wing is a position they want more, and Ehlers won't be going anywhere at this rate.

 

Higher likelyhood you guys would go after Scheifele or Little as the first piece(To replace Giroux) and Ehlers would not be part of any trade at all. Ehlers and Hellboy are untouchable prospects as far as the Jets are concerned. One of Hutchinson/Pavelec would likely be part of it too since Hellboy is almost NHL ready.

[OccamsRazor]

Scheifele or Little

 

Pass i'm not trading Giroux to step down. I'd find another option.

[brelic]

I would not trade Giroux. Not only is he our captain and top player, he is a clutch playoff performer. He's the kind of guy that even as he gets older will still be effective because of the kind of game he plays. He'll end up 2nd line center at some point as he gets replaced (Konecny on the 1st?) by younger guys in their prime. And that's the kind of veteran experience and leadership teams always search for. He's a homegrown talent, and belongs here.

 

That being said, if you move Schenn to the top line, the rest of the lines start to look weaker.

 

Schenn/G/Jake

 

What's next?

 

Gagner/Couturier/Simmonds ?

 

Read/Laughton/Umberger ?

 

VV/White/Bellemare ?

 

I would look at moving Read and maybe replace him with Cousins, Straka, Leier, or Aube-Kubel/Lindblom next year if they're ready. I feel like Read has outlived his usefulness on this team, and we've gotten his best years. The return won't be significant, but I'm sure you could get a 2nd rounder for him. If Gagner keeps it up, I'd resign him for a few years.

 

Maybe you can package Read with Luke Schenn or Manning simply to clear cap space and open up a roster spot for a young callup.

 

That shakes up the roster a little bit without creating yet more holes.

[ruxpin]

Pass i'm not trading Giroux to step down. I'd find another option.

 

Agreed.   That would be horrible.  And that's not overvaluing Giroux.  Suggesting it is overvaluing Scheifele or Little.  And we have no use for their goalies...who suck.

[OccamsRazor]

 Not sure Nashville has anyone that is a one on one value for Claude?

 

No they don't.

 

Not unless they deal Weber and doubt they would.

 

No that ship has sailed.  Any talk about G would need to start with Seth Jones. Remember this is purely for the sake of conversation. G isn't going anywhere.

 

But it would have to be Jones, Fiala and maybe the rights to Jimmy Vesey. Flyers need LW depth.

[jammer2]

I really do think this is the issue. And I would absolutely try Gagner there.

 

 They should try Gagner there, but I do agree with what Mojo said 100%, there NEEDS to be a stone cold killer on that line...a beast who is also creative...and Gagner fulfills only one of those requirements. It's getting a tad picky, and really, I don't think that player exists in the Flyers org, but that is what is needed.

[jammer2]

I would look at moving Read and maybe replace him with Cousins, Straka, Leier, or Aube-Kubel/Lindblom next year if they're ready. I feel like Read has outlived his usefulness on this team, and we've gotten his best years.

 

 Yes, very nice point, I had held out hope that last year was an anomoly, but Read should be targeted for trade. Almost anyone in the minors ie Cousins, Lindblom, a few others would be more than adequate replacements.

[ruxpin]

 They should try Gagner there, but I do agree with what Mojo said 100%, there NEEDS to be a stone cold killer on that line...a beast who is also creative...and Gagner fulfills only one of those requirements. It's getting a tad picky, and really, I don't think that player exists in the Flyers org, but that is what is needed.

 

 

Oh, I agree with you and Mojo completely.  For now, though, you're right that player does not exist in the Flyers' org.  So, going with what's available, I put Gagner there.  

 

I'm not trying to start a 30 page back and forth about Simon Gagne, but I bet that line is better with him.

[ruxpin]

 Yes, very nice point, I had held out hope that last year was an anomoly, but Read should be targeted for trade. Almost anyone in the minors ie Cousins, Lindblom, a few others would be more than adequate replacements.

 

Same goes for Raffl, really.  Both are nice players, but they're both  "oh, and they were there too."

[jammer2]

  So, nobody here thinks Caluso makes a valid point, that G will be on the downswing and taking up LARGE cap space BEFORE the defense is ready? I realize he's a franchise player, but the thought of going all in on a rebuild has been tossed around in my mind. Tired of the slow starts, tired of the pass first mentatily, when we don't have the players to carry out the finish. I know it's REALLY hard to go against the grain and shoot first when everything else in your make up says pass, but it's needed, we don't have finishers and he has perhaps the best shot on the team. How about taking it to the net HARD and try to score....create a rebound?

 

 G is worth every penny of his contract IF he starts out as strong has he finishes...and he has not shown that ability thus far. In a few years down the road, what will G be like when he is a step slower?  Answer....what he is right now, a power play specialist.

 

 Take note of this list, last years even strength scoring leaders....G is at #100....NOT good enough. He gets pushed around WAY to easy 5 on 5....sorry.

 

 http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-even-strength-scoring-leaders/2014/

[ruxpin]

  So, nobody here thinks Caluso makes a valid point, that G will be on the downswing and taking up LARGE cap space BEFORE the defense is ready? I realize he's a franchise player, but the thought of going all in on a rebuild has been tossed around in my mind. Tired of the slow starts, tired of the pass first mentatily, when we don't have the players to carry out the finish. I know it's REALLY hard to go against the grain and shoot first when everything else in your make up says pass, but it's needed, we don't have finishers and he has perhaps the best shot on the team. How about taking it to the net HARD and try to score....create a rebound?

 

 G is worth every penny of his contract IF he starts out as strong has he finishes...and he has not shown that ability thus far. In a few years down the road, what will G be like when he is a step slower?  Answer....what he is right now, a power play specialist.

 

 Take note of this list, last years even strength scoring leaders....G is at #100....NOT good enough. He gets pushed around WAY to easy 5 on 5....sorry.

 

 http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-even-strength-scoring-leaders/2014/

 

I, for one, wasn't discounting Caluso's point.  Others have kicked it around, as well, and he's honestly 30 years old before this team is anything close to ready.   I'm okay with it for the right package (I don't think that's coming from Nashville, though).  I also think that his diminishing returns are the result of only 2/3s of a line.

 

But certainly, for the right package, do it.   I need 2 first round picks and a prospect and one young NHLer.

[jammer2]

@ruxpin  Yes, it HAS to be the right package. Problem is, teams might not pay our price, just because of our reasons for trading him. Others will have the same fear, that he has already played his best hockey for the Flyers. An ideal trading partner might be the Yotes....soon to be moving an needing a major draw in their new setting....AND needed the playoff cash infusion that G would bring.

[OccamsRazor]

So, nobody here thinks Caluso makes a valid point, that G will be on the downswing and taking up LARGE cap space BEFORE the defense is ready?

 

I think it's plausible. Like Rad pointed out somewhere around here his numbers have dipped the last 4 years. But, but isn't it also likely the Flyers could find him a dominate LW and he also regain his 11-12 numbers of 93 points?? It is.

 

But realistically it's just hard to trade guys like this blockbuster deals like this just don't happen these days.

 

But i do enjoy talking about it and kicking it around...it beats talking about this actual team and it's woes.

[OccamsRazor]

@ruxpin  Yes, it HAS to be the right package. Problem is, teams might not pay our price, just because of our reasons for trading him. Others will have the same fear, that he has already played his best hockey for the Flyers. An ideal trading partner might be the Yotes....soon to be moving an needing a major draw in their new setting....AND needed the playoff cash infusion that G would bring.

 

 

And also for the sake of discussions i think i'd rather trade Jake instead of G. Just my thoughts. I mean if we have to trade one of the two stars.

[jammer2]

And also for the sake of discussions i think i'd rather trade Jake instead of G. Just my thoughts. I mean if we have to trade one of the two stars.

 

 Yes, same here....but the return would be like day and night....one of the very best pts producers of the last 5 years against a guy who did it once, shows no signs of doing it again, and is not creative like G....day and night!

[OccamsRazor]

 Yes, same here....but the return would be like day and night....one of the very best pts producers of the last 5 years against a guy who did it once, shows no signs of doing it again, and is not creative like G....day and night!

 

Very good but depressing point. 

[canoli]

against a guy who did it once, shows no signs of doing it again, and is not creative like G

 

 

Yep this is a big year for Voracek; does he deliver on the promise of the big contract or burden the Flyers for years to come? He's a huge Jagr fan and a real Czech patriot. I got to believe his pride will demand greatness from him and he'll deliver. He's worked hard to become strong on the puck. I'm not sure what else he needs to be an elite power forward... other than maybe a better team to play for (lol).

 

The bad news is going back to last year he's got a wicked-ugly slump going on as far as goal-scoring is concerned. I can't recall the exact stats but I read he's got like 5 goals in the past 48 games. Something like that. If he wants to make the AS squad again this year he better get it going soon.

[jammer2]

I'm not sure what else he needs to be an elite power forward... other than maybe a better team to play for (lol).

 

 If I had to take a wild guess, he needs to impose his will more, he has a big strong frame, he needs to use it to get to the hard to access area just outside of the crease. He could use some more upper body strength, ie better summer work out program. He is coming close, he has had horrible luck.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

I think the question might be something like this: When does the management really believe a deep playoff run is possible?  My gut says they know this year and next are "marginal."  But if we don't see real improvement by the end of this year or middle of next--pieces could move.  Getting picks for the next year or two won't be so bad given our cap problems.

 

Howie

[LegionOfDoom]

Bring back Jagr!!!.....

[caluso]

I would not trade Giroux. Not only is he our captain and top player, he is a clutch playoff performer. He's the kind of guy that even as he gets older will still be effective because of the kind of game he plays. He'll end up 2nd line center at some point as he gets replaced (Konecny on the 1st?) by younger guys in their prime. And that's the kind of veteran experience and leadership teams always search for. He's a homegrown talent, and belongs here.

 

That being said, if you move Schenn to the top line, the rest of the lines start to look weaker.

 

Schenn/G/Jake

 

What's next?

 

Gagner/Couturier/Simmonds ?

 

Read/Laughton/Umberger ?

 

VV/White/Bellemare ?

 

I would look at moving Read and maybe replace him with Cousins, Straka, Leier, or Aube-Kubel/Lindblom next year if they're ready. I feel like Read has outlived his usefulness on this team, and we've gotten his best years. The return won't be significant, but I'm sure you could get a 2nd rounder for him. If Gagner keeps it up, I'd resign him for a few years.

 

Maybe you can package Read with Luke Schenn or Manning simply to clear cap space and open up a roster spot for a young callup.

 

That shakes up the roster a little bit without creating yet more holes.

Thats the thing, statistically, G is NOT getting better. I wonder what kind of player he will be when he's 33 and earning 9 million per year.

I get that he's the captain, but let's face it, leadership is one of the team's biggest issues.

 

And, I am not talking about simply trading him for the sake of it, I expect a big haul in return.

Here's hoping that Mr Left-wing lock still thinks G is the greatest player on earth.

[caluso]

I don't think G is the problem, at all, 

 

Voracek is pressing, he's had a pile of chances set up by Giroux and hasn't finished them.  

I think the problem is too many set up guys and not enough finishers , Giroux has a great shot, but he doesn't let it go like he should, he's working on it, but it's hard to undo 23 years of playing a certain way.  Jake, is essentially the same guy but bigger and with not as good of a shot.  There needs to be a stone cold killer on that line, a guy that shoots first and **** all you all... there needs to be a guy who finishes. I think Gagner has that mentality but i don't like him on that line because it kills our depth scoring (hahahahaha) I think Brayden Schenn could be that guy but if he doesn't succeed in his first shift he loses his chance.  

 

why not try cousins or straka or lindblom ? 

i don't blame G for the team's problems. Not one bit.

The team lacks talent. The forwards corps is filled with way too many role players. They lack skill, speed and toughness upfront (aside: who crashes the net anymore and gets greasy goals?????).

My point is, by the time we are seriously ready to compete, G will be in his 30's, with a sizable (9 million per year) cap hit.

Let's really rebuild and stockpile good young players and draft picks. Let's assemble a great core.

Provorov is going to be an absolute monster. I watch all of his games, and he's gifted - a man among boys.

Konecny will be great, too.

A few more truly great prospects and the rebuild will be shorter and the core stronger; a core that can actually compete for the Cup.

I am willing to watch 2 years of bad hockey rather than watch 5 years of mediocre hockey.

 

That, and I like to wheel and deal....