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Stay/Go: The Luke Schenn Thread

mojo1917

By mojo1917
in Philadelphia Flyers

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King Knut Newbie

King Knut

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@briere48

Nobody has said anything about a big contract. He doesn't deserve a big contract. He's also far from the worst problem on the team...as is his brother.

This is the key. If he's not getting offers for Schenn then Schenn can't really expect much of a big contract at all.

Give him another 2-3 years. At a similar rate.

Streit will either return and be traded or not return and be LTIR'd. Either way that gets us any cap room and a roster spot we'd need for Ghost and or Provo.

I'd sooner see Luke Schenn on this team for three more years as we transition to the kids than Schultz or (God help us) Manning.

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canoli Newbie

canoli

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i can't see anyone saying he is better than seidenberg and should deserve more.

 

 

Yeah not "better" but he hits harder; that's something. Of course he doesn't skate as well as Seidenberg. I see him as a Luc Sbisa clone with more potential. Sbisa has WYSIWYG written all over him but LSchenn could be another Andy Greene. Not a guy to build a team around but a worthy piece of the puzzle.

 

However he pans out as a still-young veteran he plays an important role on a weak team like the Flyers. I'd rather re-sign him than trade him because his trade value is likely to be low. PO-bound teams won't overpay for LSchenn and teams that miss the post-season won't be interested in him at all. Maybe the Flyers can use him in a multi-player swap...?

 

While the Flyers wait out the bad contracts and slowly bring along younger D-men maybe Luke is a good safe bet at $4-point_?__.

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RJ8812 Newbie

RJ8812

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Luke isn't worth more than $2.5m on a short deal and if he thinks he is, he can easily be replaced through free agency. 

 

Personally, I'd rather just ship him out by the deadline. I don't like seeing him out there knowing that the swap with JVR is one of the worst trades in recent NHL history 

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icehole Contributor

icehole

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I think Luke will definitely get $4mill in FA. I dont think he's worth that much but he's still young and he's somewhat physical. It's the length of contract that's in queation. Im not sure if he'll get more than three years. Would you do 3 years at $4mill per?

I appreciate the way he's played lately but I wouldnt sign him. With the current state of the team (looks like more of a rebuild), I would start looking for some untapped talent out there. Hopefully you find a young talent that blossoms into a 5/6 dman. Add the young studs we already have in the system and now the defense looks pretty good and it wont cost you for a few years.

Im not paying $4mill for a guy that was scratched in favor of manning and shultz for thr first 1/8th of the season.

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mojo1917 Veteran

mojo1917

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I don't like seeing him out there knowing that the swap with JVR is one of the worst trades in recent NHL history 

 

Is it ?

 

you'd really rather have JvR ?  

 

i mean it's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it.  I just don't see him as a useful player, sure he scores goals in November and sometimes December and yes we need goals,  but he's consistently disappeared once the ice starts to "shrink" because teams are buckling down for a playoff spot.  We got a useful player a guy that doesn't shrink from view when the going gets tough, a guy that does whatever is asked of him...for me that trade is a wash, JvR was never going to live up to his draft position and would always be an underachieving whipping boy.

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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I think Luke will definitely get $4mill in FA. I dont think he's worth that much but he's still young and he's somewhat physical. It's the length of contract that's in queation. Im not sure if he'll get more than three years. Would you do 3 years at $4mill per?

I appreciate the way he's played lately but I wouldnt sign him. With the current state of the team (looks like more of a rebuild), I would start looking for some untapped talent out there. Hopefully you find a young talent that blossoms into a 5/6 dman. Add the young studs we already have in the system and now the defense looks pretty good and it wont cost you for a few years.

Im not paying $4mill for a guy that was scratched in favor of manning and shultz for thr first 1/8th of the season.

 

 

4M for Luke is right at the tipping point for me honestly... if he would take a 2 years at 4M I *might* take a flyers (no pun intended) on him.  He has played really well as of late but we have seen this before with both Luke and his brother.   It would have to be a short contract and I would certainly try to get him to take 3.25M per year.  Based on his body of work I just dont see him as a 4M dman, but with contracts these days, I dont think it is that far off.

 

I think it all comes down to how Hextall values him.   If he asks for 4M and anything more than 3 years I would trade him in a heartbeat.   

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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Is it ?

 

you'd really rather have JvR ?  

 

i mean it's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it.  I just don't see him as a useful player, sure he scores goals in November and sometimes December and yes we need goals,  but he's consistently disappeared once the ice starts to "shrink" because teams are buckling down for a playoff spot.  We got a useful player a guy that doesn't shrink from view when the going gets tough, a guy that does whatever is asked of him...for me that trade is a wash, JvR was never going to live up to his draft position and would always be an underachieving whipping boy.

 

I would much rather have JvR... 

 

Everyone loves to point out how he is useless and only scores soft goals in December...   last time he was in O&B he was an absolute beast (well, the one series anyway ;) ) in the playoffs.  Being in Tronno is a bad state and I think he could be a consistent 30 goal guy w/ G and Jake/Raff.  That is why he was given the contract.   I much rather have a 1st line power forward who can score 30 than Luke Schenn.  I will take that every day of the week...

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mojo1917 Veteran

mojo1917

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last time he was in O&B he was an absolute beast in the playoffs

 

i remember that Boston series too.

 

it was the glimpse of what he "could" be,  and he's never done it since.  I was a defender of the guy in these very pages. I wanted him to be the guy on left for Giroux,  I wanted him to be the guy with Schenn and Simmer, he never ever took that next step to become "the guy". 

 

How'd he do in his next playoff appearance with the Leafs ? not good right ?  He's a guy who IMO earned the vitriol directed at him, way  way more than everyone's least favorite frosted tipped player....

 

 i don't hate that trade.  

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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i remember that Boston series too.

 

it was the glimpse of what he "could" be,  and he's never done it since.  I was a defender of the guy in these very pages. I wanted him to be the guy on left for Giroux,  I wanted him to be the guy with Schenn and Simmer, he never ever took that next step to become "the guy". 

 

How'd he do in his next playoff appearance with the Leafs ? not good right ?  He's a guy who IMO earned the vitriol directed at him, way  way more than everyone's least favorite frosted tipped player....

 

 i don't hate that trade.  

 

 

He definitely earned most of the criticism and I would not argue that... he showed flashes and then would just float around the ice. Hindsight is always easy...  For what the Flyers need right now I would not mind having JvR on that top line.  He does know how to score and that would be a very welcome addition to the Team.  Luke has played well this season IMO.  I think you could give the same argument for Schenn -giving up a 1st line LWer for a dman that never really came close to his expectations is a tough debate.   

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aziz Enthusiast

aziz

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For what the Flyers need right now I would not mind having JvR on that top line.  He does know how to score and that would be a very welcome addition to the Team.

 

just for perspective...he is a 60 point winger that posted a -33 last season.  4th worst in the league.  have the flyers *ever* had someone in the -30's?

 

really terrible team, and his linemates were even worse (though only barely), but still.  i can't really say that i think he'd be a welcome addition to this team or its first line.  scores some goals, sure, but literally nothing else.  and even that isn't exactly at a breakneck pace.  i think i'd rather have an open position that the GM can work to fill over the next year or two than JVR holding down the spot.

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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just for perspective...he is a 60 point winger that posted a -33 last season. 4th worst in the league. have the flyers *ever* had someone in the -30's?

really terrible team, and his linemates were even worse (though only barely), but still. i can't really say that i think he'd be a welcome addition to this team or its first line. scores some goals, sure, but literally nothing else. and even that isn't exactly at a breakneck pace. i think i'd rather have an open position that the GM can work to fill over the next year or two than JVR holding down the spot.

well, that is a entirely different debate aziz... we were talking Schenn vs. JvR. I much rather have an open position to fill at this point and I don't believe he really would fit Hak's system. Again, the debate was over comparing who would be better fit for the Flyers...

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aziz Enthusiast

aziz

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well, that is a entirely different debate aziz... we were talking Schenn vs. JvR. I much rather have an open position to fill at this point and I don't believe he really would fit Hak's system. Again, the debate was over comparing who would be better fit for the Flyers...

 

i understand.  for the reasons stated, i think he would be a terrible fit in general.  was a terrible fit, even.  luke isn't amazing, but by default is the better fit for the flyers, imo.

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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i understand.  for the reasons stated, i think he would be a terrible fit in general.  was a terrible fit, even.  luke isn't amazing, but by default is the better fit for the flyers, imo.

 

 

I dont necessarily disagree... I think they are both "what they are" at this point in their careers.   I do think Schenn has been under appreciated this year and has played well.   With Jake's "thing" going on since the start of the season it would certainly be nice to have someone that could pot some goals.  For the most part this whole year is predicated on what G does...

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King Knut Newbie

King Knut

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i remember that Boston series too.

it was the glimpse of what he "could" be, and he's never done it since. I was a defender of the guy in these very pages. I wanted him to be the guy on left for Giroux, I wanted him to be the guy with Schenn and Simmer, he never ever took that next step to become "the guy".

How'd he do in his next playoff appearance with the Leafs ? not good right ? He's a guy who IMO earned the vitriol directed at him, way way more than everyone's least favorite frosted tipped player....

i don't hate that trade.

Jvr's problem IMHO is one of coaching ( or lack thereof).

Lavvy is a good coach for getting people to go to war for him, but he's not the best necessarily at developing a week rounded game from young players who don't necessarily have an inherent well rounded game already.

If JVR comes into the AHL and learns a decent responsible system for a year, then plays under a guy like Babcock, the. Who knows what's possible. But he was learning the speed and intensity of the game at the same time as he wasn't learning how to be a responsible player in that speed and intensity.

Now babcock's got an underdeveloped skill set on his hands who's already a little set in his irresponsible ways.

My point is I guess that JVR would be no better for us now if we'd kept him over Luke.

I do t think he'd be a -30, but I do t think he'd put up 60 points either.

We'd be disappointed in him. Frankly put: he just wasn't a good #2 pick. Oddly enough, the Flyers ended up with the #6 and #7 picks from that season, but in hindsight, I'd just as soon have taken McDonagh(12) or Couture(9) from that class.

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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Luke is a deadline deal if I ever saw one. Let's just hope he keeps playing like he is and doesn't get injured. Streit was our other 'deadline deal'... then he had to go and get his dick detached.

 

 

ouch.... two words that should never go together...   makes me cringe.

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