brelic Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 It's hard to compare the players directly because they are so different, but here's what they look like so far: Coburn 30 years old (31 this month) $4.5M cap hit 16:19 ATOI 40GP, 6pts 0 +/- 47 shots, 65 hits, and 44 blocks 7 takeaways, 8 giveaways Gudas 25 years old $990K cap hit 20:48 ATOI 33 GP, 2pts. 0 +/- 58 shots, 178 hits, 61 blocks 3 takeaways, 24 giveaways And we got a 1st (Konecny) and 3rd (Tomek) out of it too??? Genius. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Ya Coburn is the better player, easily. But when you include Konecny and Tomek...I'll take it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, brelic said: It's hard to compare the players directly because they are so different, but here's what they look like so far: Coburn 30 years old (31 this month) $4.5M cap hit 16:19 ATOI 40GP, 6pts 0 +/- 47 shots, 65 hits, and 44 blocks 7 takeaways, 8 giveaways Gudas 25 years old $990K cap hit 20:48 ATOI 33 GP, 2pts. 0 +/- 58 shots, 178 hits, 61 blocks 3 takeaways, 24 giveaways And we got a 1st (Konecny) and 3rd (Tomek) out of it too??? Genius. Sssssssh Hexy is working on fleecing them for Drouin to...gonna send them Nick Schultz, David Drewskie and a 7th for Drouin it's in the works as we speak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: Ya Coburn is the better player, easily. But when you include Konecny and Tomek...I'll take it. Right. And the giveaway/takeaway ratio is a bit misleading. Seth Jones has 9 takeaways and 32 giveaways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Coburn might be a better puck handler but he also had quite the penchant for scoring goals in his own net. Couple that with his inability to put a puck on net from more than 10 feet out, well lets just say that I don't miss Coburn very much. Gudas is a solid 3rd pair d-man with a reasonable salary and hits everything that moves along with the net when he shoots at it. I will take that trade 8 days a week and twice on Sundays......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 51 minutes ago, brelic said: Right. And the giveaway/takeaway ratio is a bit misleading. Seth Jones has 9 takeaways and 32 giveaways. Yeah and add in the difference in salaries and Flyers win in spades.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, brelic said: It's hard to compare the players directly because they are so different, but here's what they look like so far: Coburn 30 years old (31 this month) $4.5M cap hit 16:19 ATOI 40GP, 6pts 0 +/- 47 shots, 65 hits, and 44 blocks 7 takeaways, 8 giveaways Gudas 25 years old $990K cap hit 20:48 ATOI 33 GP, 2pts. 0 +/- 58 shots, 178 hits, 61 blocks 3 takeaways, 24 giveaways And we got a 1st (Konecny) and 3rd (Tomek) out of it too??? Genius. Yeah it's a big gamble for Yzerman. it almost paid off. Coburn certainly contributed more in last year's run to the finals than Gudas would have... especially since he was hurt ;). If Tampa thinks it can make a run again this year, it may still end up being worth while if Coburn can contribute the way he did last year. I'm not even sure Yzerman dreamed Coburn would do what he did for them, I think he just wanted a top 4 D man he could count on to be responsible and make a few plays to keep things going, but Coburn really stepped up. I think the other half of that equation is that Gudas is already playing better than I think Yzerman thought he could. He's certainly playing better than I expected of him. Hell, I figured he was just a throw in player, but he's really taken leaps and bounds and I think seems like he should be a part of this team's Defense going forward for some time. The fact that Konecny fell as late in the draft as he did is going to be one of those things that GMs and fans of other teams will scratch heads about in the future. A first at all was amazing, but that late in the round to get a kid like TK is pretty nutz. They say luck is the convergence of preparation and opportunity and it seems like Hextall is a very prepared and opportunistic deal maker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, flyerrod said: Coburn might be a better puck handler but he also had quite the penchant for scoring goals in his own net. Couple that with his inability to put a puck on net from more than 10 feet out, well lets just say that I don't miss Coburn very much. Gudas is a solid 3rd pair d-man with a reasonable salary and hits everything that moves along with the net when he shoots at it. I will take that trade 8 days a week and twice on Sundays......... about 20 feet i guess? Coburn was just fine once he wasn't playing for Berube and being asked to be Pronger. Also, his contract is up for Yzerman soon and he played well throughout the playoffs despite not playing for them much in the season. All that said, I'm thrilled with getting a first for him. I wouldn't have traded him for less than good deal because his contract wasn't a problem contract and was up soon. So a first is a great get for him that made him expendable. Even more thrilling is Gudas. I thought Gudas was just a throw in player, but he's really been strong for the Flyers and is significantly better now than he was at the onset of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: Yeah and add in the difference in salaries and Flyers win in spades.... I agree. I wouldn't agree if the Lightning had managed to win the cup last year in which case I'd say everyone won and can go home happy. They don't look as strong this year, but they still have a chance with that lineup and if they could, then I still think everyone wins. You can't lose a trade if you win a cup after it with the player involved on the roster. But it would take a cup at this point. I think if Yzerman could have guessed Koneckny would drift down that low in the draft, he might not have sent us that pick. Sometimes you get lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, flyerrod said: Coburn might be a better puck handler but he also had quite the penchant for scoring goals in his own net. Couple that with his inability to put a puck on net from more than 10 feet out, well lets just say that I don't miss Coburn very much. Gudas is a solid 3rd pair d-man with a reasonable salary and hits everything that moves along with the net when he shoots at it. I will take that trade 8 days a week and twice on Sundays......... All true except for the bolded part. His tendency to fire shots that get blocked is verging on legendary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Sssssssh Hexy is working on fleecing them for Drouin to...gonna send them Nick Schultz, David Drewskie and a 7th for Drouin it's in the works as we speak... You forgot MacDonald and Weal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yeah 1st goal since 2010-11. Total in 98 career playoff games.....sniper he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, elmatus said: All true except for the bolded part. His tendency to fire shots that get blocked is verging on legendary. No more than wide right Coburn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 2 hours ago, brelic said: It's hard to compare the players directly because they are so different, but here's what they look like so far: Coburn 30 years old (31 this month) $4.5M cap hit 16:19 ATOI 40GP, 6pts 0 +/- 47 shots, 65 hits, and 44 blocks 7 takeaways, 8 giveaways Gudas 25 years old $990K cap hit 20:48 ATOI 33 GP, 2pts. 0 +/- 58 shots, 178 hits, 61 blocks 3 takeaways, 24 giveaways And we got a 1st (Konecny) and 3rd (Tomek) out of it too??? Genius. I agree absolutely. Coburn was overrated at best and a liability at worst. He was billed as a puck mover who is solid in his own end, but turned out to be barely the first and not at all the second. Gudas is billed as a tough guy who can punish in his own end while occasionally firing a shot or two from the point. He's lived up to that billing 100% in my mind. Give me the known quantity over the over-hyped any day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Coburn has one of the worse shots (accuracy, power, you name it) I've ever seen from a pro hockey player. Mine might be better. He's proof that size means absolutely nothing in terms of the mechanics of shooting. He can't really pass the puck very well either come to think of it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yeah 1st goal since 2010-11. Total in 98 career playoff games.....sniper he is. Helps to make the playoffs in order to get playoff goals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, King Knut said: Helps to make the playoffs in order to get playoff goals I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you blaming Gudas for Tampa's lack of playoffs? Because Coburn has had more than enough opportunity 98 games is more than enough. Besides Gudas is way younger 25. Has played in 3 games hardly his fault for Tampa playoff downfalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Is Gudas better at getting shots through to the net, via accuracy and fewer blocked? Player SH Attempts Missed Blocked Miss% Block% Coburn 2244 540 703 24.1 31.3 Gudas 574 128 185 22.3 32.2 No. Coburn misses the net a little bit more, and Gudas' attempts are blocked a little more. But really, they're virtually identical in this department. ...frickin' code... It's a pain to line this stuff up correctly. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, elmatus said: I agree absolutely. Coburn was overrated at best and a liability at worst. He was billed as a puck mover who is solid in his own end, but turned out to be barely the first and not at all the second. Gudas is billed as a tough guy who can punish in his own end while occasionally firing a shot or two from the point. He's lived up to that billing 100% in my mind. Give me the known quantity over the over-hyped any day. Who ever billed him as that? That's like saying Timmo was billed as a porch clearing physical D man. That was never what Coburn was and the fact that anyone here thinks he was "billed" as such really indicates the real problem. He was pushed into something like that role after Pronger got hurt, Carle wasn't resigned and even more so when Timmo got hurt. That role, plus just about everything else Pronger did...whichCoburn was woefully incapable of doing. What Coburn was good at was being a compliment to Timmo. Coburn isn't and never was a puck mover. he was a strong position based D man who was fairly mobile for his size. He wasn't even really a porch clearing kind of guy, but he was decent at canceling players out on the transition, which was what Stevens' teams were built around and much of what Cooper's team is built around in Tampa. The minute Lavvy took over, Coburn's role became slighyly more ambiguous. Then by the time everyone above him was gone and Berube was in charge, Coburn who was really a #4 guy was thrust into a #1 role and we all hated him for "being bad". He wasn't bad. He wasn't playing his game. The team was bad. His addition to Tampa in a classical #4 spot was exactly what both he and Tampa needed. It enabled them to play Hedman and Stralman together as a top pairing which would take the monster minutes. Coburn, now asked to play 16-17 minutes per game instead of 22-23 and on 2nd special team units (if that) instead of first, enabled the top pairing to be better and on the ice together more and was able to step up his own play as a result of his appropriate situational use. It's kind of a no brainer. He didn't work here any more because the total team D stunk and couldn't use him in a way effective for his skillset anymore. Tampa could. It's that simple. You can't have an effective #2 or #4 D man when you have no effective #1 or #3. I don't want him back. I don't miss him. It was a great trade at a perfect time for both sides. I just think it's silly for us to sit here and say he stunk. Really comes across as naive at best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Coburn has never been the same since that eye injury. I'm glad he's not on the roster anymore and thrilled with the return he got 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 17 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: Is Gudas better at getting shots through to the net, via accuracy and fewer blocked? Player SH Attempts Missed Blocked Miss% Block% Coburn 2244 540 703 24.1 31.3 Gudas 574 128 185 22.3 32.2 No. Coburn misses the net a little bit more, and Gudas' attempts are blocked a little more. But really, they're virtually identical in this department. ...frickin' code... It's a pain to line this stuff up correctly. lol So yeah with a 3.5 million dollar cheaper price tag i'll take Gudas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just now, OccamsRazor said: So yeah with a 3.5 million dollar cheaper price tag i'll take Gudas! Oh, I completely understand that. Moving Coburn and his salary gave Hextall more options. I only shared the numbers because arguments were made which indicated that Gudas is better at this part of the game: getting pucks through to the net. This is a stance which doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. But, as I said, I agree that moving Coburn and his contract is fine, and they seem to be getting value from Gudas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 9 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: I only shared the numbers because arguments were made which indicated that Gudas is better at this part of the game: getting pucks through to the net. This is a stance which doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. HHhhhmmmm i must have missed or overlooked this but no you're right they are pretty even. They bring a lot of the same one is just older and cost more. Now pre eye injury on Coburn and Coburn would win by a mile but he hasn't been the same since taking that puck to the eye in the Pens playoff series. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I wonder if Tampa flips Coburn at the deadline or do they keep him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: HHhhhmmmm i must have missed or overlooked this but no you're right they are pretty even. They bring a lot of the same one is just older and cost more. Now pre eye injury on Coburn and Coburn would win by a mile but he hasn't been the same since taking that puck to the eye in the Pens playoff series. This is an interesting idea, and one which I hadn't considered. Well, we can figure this one out pretty easily. Miss% Block% Before Inury 28.0 21.7 After Injury 23.3 33.2 It's a mixed bag. Since the eye injury, Coburn hits the net more often on unblocked shots, but there really was a big decrease in the numbers of shots he was able to get through defenders. We can't say for certain if it's because his vision in some way impaired, but it's a noticeable enough difference to suggest that it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.