Panthers Furious as No Discipline for Barkov hit

[hf101]

And a rivalry is born.

 

  The Panthers have been a laughingstock forever, insignificant and irrelevant. they crushed the Wings 6-3 in Sunrise a few days after the all star break. The game was not even as close as the score sounds. it was all Florida from the opening faceoff.

 Last night it was a different story in Detroit. Justin Abdelkader is now public enemy number one.

 

 

In the second period Barkov who has had a breakout season in Florida took the puck near his net and was simply destroyed by Abdelkader, he left the game, and has been ruled out for the next game (at least) already. Derek Mckenzie ran Abdelkader and fought him with a minute left in the game. Abdelkader left McKenzie bloodied.

  The league took a look at the Barkov hit and said good clean hit. Gerard Gallant and company are furious. Multiple quotes have the Panthers looking for blood as their star player was run, if you feel it was a clean hit or dirty as a rule star players are protected by their teammates and make no mistake Barkov is becoming a star before our eyes.

  I have a hard time being objective as a Wings fan. It looked like a perfect open ice hit. But it did change the complexion of the game, the Wings won 3-0 and Abdelkader was the third star. With a win last night the Panthers could have essentially wrapped up the division for the most part (barring an epic collapse) but the Wings are within 6 points, with Boston and Tampa right there too. And now Barkov is out for who knows how long.

  Like I said, a rivalry was born last night. Game on.

[hf101]

Actually you need another category in your poll.  

 

I think it is an elbow to the head imo.  Deserving of a 5 min penalty on the ice.   I voted suspension worthy but that isn't quite accurate imo, but it isn't a clean hit either.

 

If it wasnt' an elbow Abdelkater's arn wouldn't have gone flying in the air as it would have been tight to his body. 

 

Sucks though Barkov is on all my FHL teams.   

[JagerMeister]

Barkov is becoming one of my favourite players in the league. But this was a clean hit, luck just wasn't on his side when coming out with no injury...again.

[flyerrod]

I agree with JagerMeister for a change.....His elbow came up on the follow through, after his shoulder went into the chest,and not raised to target the head. I am far from an Abdelkader or Wing fan but this is not the problem with the way the game is played today. Solid open ice check not even deserving of a penalty IMHO.

[hf101]

From the opposite angle, I don't see the elbow,  but the hit is clearly delivered to the head.  I still think the call on the ice should have been a 5 min major with no suspension.

 

 

[SpikeDDS]

I've said this before, but I think the league and I look at "targeting the head" the same way, so I'll put this out there. Clearly the head was the initial point of contact here, but it was because the head was down, not because it was "targeted." My definition of "targeting the head" is to take the head and neck off of the victim's body and run the hit again. If most of the hit disappears after removing the head and neck from the victim, then that is targeting the head. That is a head shot, and it should be treated as such.

 

This was not that. Abdelkader would still have plowed Barkov over even if his head and neck were removed from his body. In other words, this was a full body check and Barkov's head just got in the way because it was down. This is the kind of hit I want to remain in the game. The elbow does come up a bit at the end, which I admit concerned me at first glance. But if you look at the hit itself, it plays almost no part in it. When Abby hits Barkov, the elbow is down and the shoulder inflicts the damage, particularly to the head, but he gets the whole torso with his body. The elbow plays very little role in the hit, despite it being raised at the end.

 

If you punish a hit like this, it means that you can't hit a player with his head down from the front, and that is just ridiculous to me. Players with the puck have a responsibility to keep their head up. If they don't, there are consequences. If this hit is punishable, what is to stop any player from putting their head down as a shield from being hit from the front? Nothing. It would neuter the game. Might as well attach flags to the waists and play flag hockey.

 

@yave1964 and I might be Red Wings fans, but both of us are pretty fair-minded when it comes to this stuff. We agreed, for example, on Kronwall's suspension for Game 7 last year against the TBL. A good hit is a good hit, no matter which sweaters are being worn.

[yave1964]

1 hour ago, SpikeDDS said:

 

 

 

 

@yave1964 and I might be Red Wings fans, but both of us are pretty fair-minded when it comes to this stuff. We agreed, for example, on Kronwall's suspension for Game 7 last year against the TBL. A good hit is a good hit, no matter which sweaters are being worn.

Agreed Spike, the hit by Abdelkader was a thing of beauty. He basically won the game for the Wings with his hard hitting and making the Panthers concentrate upon him all night when he was on the ice. He had a good half a dozen other people that he lined up and drilled (although not as brutal as the one on Barkov) and the Cats were off their game thinking of him.

  The hit IMHO was clean and a textbook of how to administer an open ice hit, IMHO.

[pilldoc]

5 hours ago, SpikeDDS said:

I've said this before, but I think the league and I look at "targeting the head" the same way, so I'll put this out there. Clearly the head was the initial point of contact here, but it was because the head was down, not because it was "targeted." My definition of "targeting the head" is to take the head and neck off of the victim's body and run the hit again. If most of the hit disappears after removing the head and neck from the victim, then that is targeting the head. That is a head shot, and it should be treated as such.

 

This was not that. Abdelkader would still have plowed Barkov over even if his head and neck were removed from his body. In other words, this was a full body check and Barkov's head just got in the way because it was down. This is the kind of hit I want to remain in the game. The elbow does come up a bit at the end, which I admit concerned me at first glance. But if you look at the hit itself, it plays almost no part in it. When Abby hits Barkov, the elbow is down and the shoulder inflicts the damage, particularly to the head, but he gets the whole torso with his body. The elbow plays very little role in the hit, despite it being raised at the end.

 

If you punish a hit like this, it means that you can't hit a player with his head down from the front, and that is just ridiculous to me. Players with the puck have a responsibility to keep their head up. If they don't, there are consequences. If this hit is punishable, what is to stop any player from putting their head down as a shield from being hit from the front? Nothing. It would neuter the game. Might as well attach flags to the waists and play flag hockey.

 

@yave1964 and I might be Red Wings fans, but both of us are pretty fair-minded when it comes to this stuff. We agreed, for example, on Kronwall's suspension for Game 7 last year against the TBL. A good hit is a good hit, no matter which sweaters are being worn.

 

best description I have ever read with regards to this subject.  Unfortunately some players skate with their head in a down position (see Lindros, Eric RE: NJ Playoff game) and when they get checked like the above head, it makes it look bad because the head is in the way.  Great explanation.

EDIT: Agree it sucks for Barkov and the Panthers.  I enjoy watching him play and I too also have him on my fantasy team.

[B21]

@yave1964

 

Agree. Clean hit. Not late.  Move along - nothing to see here.

[BluPuk]

I'm not sure I'm getting this. I thought the NHL was trying to reduce head traumas towards eliminating or at least reducing concussions. Sounds like a lot of you guys are saying that it was "unintentional" or "the head was not targeted", and IF that is the case then it's OK? Look at the video again. It is clear that Abdelkader knew that Barkov did not see him and he still put everything into it he had. There was no 'let up' at all. As a matter of fact, the elbow came in after the hit, just to add a little more. On a defenseless player. Just meeting him would have separated him from the puck. All the rest was unnecessary.

I thought the NHL was trying to get players to be aware of situations where head trauma could result and to 'let up' in those situations? To me, these head hits should be treated the same way as hooking or tripping. Accidental has nothing to do with it, a trip is called, period. Or the puck over the boards penalty which is always called. To me, that was a clear head hit, targeted or not.

But, obviously, I'm not getting it..

[JagerMeister]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:13 AM, yave1964 said:

Agreed Spike, the hit by Abdelkader was a thing of beauty. He basically won the game for the Wings with his hard hitting eliminating Barkov.

 

 

 

 

[radoran]

I am amazed at how many hockey players need a waaahmbulance these days.

 

And don't even get me started with the announcers. It's like they've never seen a hockey hit before.

 

Look, guys can get hurt in this game. It happens. On completely legal hits. You have guys who are moving at a pretty good clip on the ice impacting guys skating the other way. This is not The No Hitting League. What is Abdelkader supposed to do in that situation? Just let Barkov skate? Barkov has the puck and is a legal target. Every coach in hockey wants his player to make that hit. Every one of them.

 

If Datsyuk was in the same situation and a Florida player did exactly the same thing the Panthers would be totally in favor of it and their coach would be telling his player that he did a great job out there.

 

Get out there and hit Abdelkader back, if the opportunity presents itself. Go over and drop the gloves to "protect" your star player if you feel the need to give your opponent a power play after a clean, legal hit.

 

Just back up the waaahmbulance and man the eff up.

[JagerMeister]

Well...nothing else to be discussed here....@Radoran just about summarized every conceivable point. Move along now...

[OccamsRazor]

It look clean to me. I can't  see the twitter other angle twitter blocked here at work but it looked text book good to me. No suspension.

[SpikeDDS]

On February 11, 2016 at 7:37 AM, BluPuk said:

I'm not sure I'm getting this. I thought the NHL was trying to reduce head traumas towards eliminating or at least reducing concussions. Sounds like a lot of you guys are saying that it was "unintentional" or "the head was not targeted", and IF that is the case then it's OK? Look at the video again. It is clear that Abdelkader knew that Barkov did not see him and he still put everything into it he had. There was no 'let up' at all. As a matter of fact, the elbow came in after the hit, just to add a little more. On a defenseless player. Just meeting him would have separated him from the puck. All the rest was unnecessary.

I thought the NHL was trying to get players to be aware of situations where head trauma could result and to 'let up' in those situations? To me, these head hits should be treated the same way as hooking or tripping. Accidental has nothing to do with it, a trip is called, period. Or the puck over the boards penalty which is always called. To me, that was a clear head hit, targeted or not.

But, obviously, I'm not getting it..

The NHL is trying to REDUCE concussions while attempting to protect the integrity of the game. There is no way to eliminate concussions unless you impose a speed limit. "Detroit Red Wings #71, 2 minutes for skating faster than you can jog." If you neuter the game in your efforts to eliminate concussions, you might as well hang 'em up for good, and play baseball...where you can still get hit in the head by a pitch and get a concussion. Ask Alex Avila.

 

Not to be repetitive, but the NHL still holds skaters responsible for keeping their heads up, AND THEY SHOULD! If you can't hit a person with their head down, why not just keep your head down all the time when you have the puck? What's to stop that? Nothing.

 

There is a BIG difference between getting hit while facing the boards--a position that is a necessary part of playing the game--and getting hit when your head is down--a position which is UNNECESSARY. Our players are trained to check players with the puck. I WANT them to be able to check players with the puck. I DON'T want players who deliver a legal check to get the blame for another player playing irresponsibly. Your problem is that you are blaming the wrong player. The onus should be on the player with the puck to not play with his head down. There are consequences to playing unnecessarily stupid hockey. It is NOT worth neutering the game to switch the onus from the player who is truly shirking their responsibility to one who, when delivered legally--I am not sanctioning illegal targeting of the head, here--is doing what would otherwise be a player's legitimate responsibility. There is nothing wrong with delivering a full-body check. The problem was that the head was down. Period.

 

i think the league is right in trying to REDUCE the incidence of concussions, while also protecting the integrity of a game that is admittedly very physical. Punishing a hit like Abdelkader's would irreparably change the game into something it is not. If you can't get that, then I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, since we can't drop the gloves to sort it out! ;-)

[BluPuk]

  Protecting the integrity of the game? The NHL? Is that the league you're watching? Seriously, you're sure? 

Sorry, but I cannot see anywhere the NHL has made any such effort! Do you mean like the addition of 'trapezoid' so that teams who have superior goalies cannot take advantage of their better skills? Or the addition of the 'loser point' so that a team can lose a game yet still get a point? Maybe you mean the addition of 3-on-3 overtime (a version of pond hockey that my brothers and I used to play), or the super-exciting 'shoot-out' exhibition? I could go on, but, integrity? Nah.

  And I never suggested (nor did anyone else in this thread) that hitting should be removed from the game. I love that about hockey. But you have to have limits - don't you? You have to recognize that the sport is much faster now than it ever was. Players are bigger, equipment is lighter (a LOT) and there are way more teams now, such that the caliber of players is MUCH wider than it ever was. So you can have a John Scott and a Sidney Crosby (OK fill in your favourite) on the ice at the same time. The only way a David Steckel can hope to get a career out of the NHL at his skill level, is to elbow a star in the head as he streaks past him. Otherwise he would never be a factor. It's only a suspension so it's no biggie, eh? All this BS about intent, target, head down is just a smokescreen to cover up what the real issue is. LOFT in a league that has expanded too fast.

  Yes, we will have to disagree. 

[SpikeDDS]

4 hours ago, BluPuk said:

  Protecting the integrity of the game? The NHL? Is that the league you're watching? Seriously, you're sure? 

Sorry, but I cannot see anywhere the NHL has made any such effort! Do you mean like the addition of 'trapezoid' so that teams who have superior goalies cannot take advantage of their better skills? Or the addition of the 'loser point' so that a team can lose a game yet still get a point? Maybe you mean the addition of 3-on-3 overtime (a version of pond hockey that my brothers and I used to play), or the super-exciting 'shoot-out' exhibition? I could go on, but, integrity? Nah.

  And I never suggested (nor did anyone else in this thread) that hitting should be removed from the game. I love that about hockey. But you have to have limits - don't you? You have to recognize that the sport is much faster now than it ever was. Players are bigger, equipment is lighter (a LOT) and there are way more teams now, such that the caliber of players is MUCH wider than it ever was. So you can have a John Scott and a Sidney Crosby (OK fill in your favourite) on the ice at the same time. The only way a David Steckel can hope to get a career out of the NHL at his skill level, is to elbow a star in the head as he streaks past him. Otherwise he would never be a factor. It's only a suspension so it's no biggie, eh? All this BS about intent, target, head down is just a smokescreen to cover up what the real issue is. LOFT in a league that has expanded too fast.

  Yes, we will have to disagree. 

 

Well, THIS would be one such example. I agree there aren't many, but you see this accomplishes BOTH. It makes hockey more marketable while keeping the integrity of the game. If you neuter it, it won't be marketable. You like hitting in the game for a good reason. It's fun to watch. Without it, it wouldn't be worthy of being sold. So I will agree with you that they place marketability above integrity, but this accomplishes both. All the other things don't accomplish both. They are for marketability's sake AT THE EXPENSE of integrity. Not this. So you REDUCE the number of concussions by eliminating dangerous hits on parts of the game that are necessary for the game to be played, but not the unnecessary ones.

 

I must say that I find it somewhat ironic that you seem to be complaining that the NHL is ruining the integrity of the game, but in the very next breath you are asking them to violate it again. What?!

 

Do you really want to eliminate hitting when heads are down? Even though EVERYONE knows you have no business playing hockey with your head down at this level? You haven't really answered my question about what's to stop players from, then, keeping their heads down to keep from being hit as an offensive strategy? You open that door, they WILL walk through it, because they can. Why wouldn't you?

 

IMHO, you are preaching the wrong message. Since the game is faster and bigger, the message to be preached LOUDER AND CLEARER is, "KEEP YOUR FRIGGING HEAD UP WHEN YOUVE GOT THE PUCK!" That solves this issue much better than your suggestion that in that split second the hitter hold up i.e. not hit him because the head is down. Again, that punishes the game and all of he opposing players instead of the one who is playing stupid hockey. If you play stupid hockey, there is a cost. If you are going to insist of playing hockey stupidly, you shouldn't play hockey. What can you not get about that very simple principle?

 

I'll give you the last word.

[BluPuk]

16 hours ago, SpikeDDS said:

I'll give you the last word.

 

Okay.