OccamsRazor Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 4 hours ago, Podein25 said: This captures my evolving feelings perfectly. It's just nice to see your team playing well as a team, with structure, with good goal tending and some exciting talent like Ghost emerging right before your eyes. Seeing it in the playoffs, where the intensity is so much greater, would just be fun. Painful ultimately, but expectations are low. They just have to exceed them. Taking WSH to 7 games would be exceeding expectations. It's unlikely, but you never know. The Flyers just went 8-1-1 and were the talk of the league with their dominant play (imagine: with McDud and Schultz and a rookie as half your D!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Interesting thread....folks, two months ago I thought (and many others here) that we'd be lucky to hit .500 for the year. We are now 10 games over. There are lots of good signs for the future. I don't like last night's game but we got a point. Was there an absence of porch clearing? Yep! Was there poor shootout outcome? So what else is new (sadly)? But there was a point, despite the last minute collapse which is, as some have said here, a function of an outmatched D that has serious lapses. I have to wonder what's left in the tank emotionally? But the youngins are probably having the time of their lives and as the Columbus announcers noted last night, MacDonald and Gagner are contributing after stints in the minors that might have torpedoed some players. So I will remain positive. We have a real challenge mile high...don't play well there, so keep fingers crossed. A last point I've made before. We thought it was a victory for the team to start at .500 after lousy starts the past few years. With parity, we are not seeing the need for ,600 to be in a position where end of season .750 isn't necessary. Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briere48 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 10 hours ago, radoran said: I see it more as "consistency" than "leadership" - The Flyers are clearly a team that is "playing for each other" and that's the hallmark of "leadership." BUT Flyers are 8-8-3 against the bottom two teams in each division. 3-4-2 against the last place teams. Good teams rack up those points. The Caps are 8-0-2 against the last place teams and 15-2-3 against the bottom two teams. Is that Ovechkin's "leadership" or is that just better top to bottom talent? I recall many people questioning Ovechkin's "leadership" skills. And they still do. The Stars are 7-4-1 against the last place teams and 15-6-1 against the bottom two teams. Is that all because of Benn's "leadership"? The Flyers need more consistency in their games to play well all the time. That's not leadership, per se, that's maturity and growth and, yes, top to bottom talent. They're not that far away, but they're not there yet entirely. the big problem with this team is experience, when you have alot of inexperience players playing inconsistent hockey starts happening. i understand everyone loves our young defense coming up from phantoms and juniors but do you think this team will better with those younger players? you have to remember they have never played an nhl game, it's possible if hextall relies on them, this team will take step back, because you are adding inexperience players on back end and possible ghost could hit a slump because he's not vet either and it will be a shooting gallery on our goalies, i really dont think it's a good idea. i think if this team had more experience they would be a contender. im not saying overpay for anyone, im saying add some cheap vets on this team and i think this team will be a contender next year because rushing the young guys could really backfire on hextall and the team not unless an injury happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, briere48 said: the big problem with this team is experience, when you have alot of inexperience players playing inconsistent hockey starts happening. i understand everyone loves our young defense coming up from phantoms and juniors but do you think this team will better with those younger players? you have to remember they have never played an nhl game, it's possible if hextall relies on them, this team will take step back, because you are adding inexperience players on back end and possible ghost could hit a slump because he's not vet either and it will be a shooting gallery on our goalies, i really dont think it's a good idea. i think if this team had more experience they would be a contender. im not saying overpay for anyone, im saying add some cheap vets on this team and i think this team will be a contender next year because rushing the young guys could really backfire on hextall and the team not unless an injury happens. Doesn'tmatters so much with the younger kids...like with Ghost they will have their ups and downs and mistakes here and there... ...but before you can worry or evn question the experience part the skill needs to be there 1st. And let's be honest Schultz, Manning, Gudas and Mcdud are pretty damn close to skill less....sure they are servicable as we can tell barely. But from a pure skill set stand point they can't hold a candle to Provorov and Sanheim skill set....period. And you compare stay at home Dmen to stay at home Dmen i don't think Gudas and Schultz or even Mcdud can hold Sam Morin jock strap. But we'll soon enough but 1st things 1st let them show they are ready and then we'll be able to tell when they arrive and then the experience will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 10 hours ago, radoran said: I see it more as "consistency" than "leadership" - The Flyers are clearly a team that is "playing for each other" and that's the hallmark of "leadership." BUT Flyers are 8-8-3 against the bottom two teams in each division. 3-4-2 against the last place teams. Good teams rack up those points. The Caps are 8-0-2 against the last place teams and 15-2-3 against the bottom two teams. Is that Ovechkin's "leadership" or is that just better top to bottom talent? I recall many people questioning Ovechkin's "leadership" skills. And they still do. The Stars are 7-4-1 against the last place teams and 15-6-1 against the bottom two teams. Is that all because of Benn's "leadership"? The Flyers need more consistency in their games to play well all the time. That's not leadership, per se, that's maturity and growth and, yes, top to bottom talent. They're not that far away, but they're not there yet entirely. Not sure how i missed this earlier but i agree well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 20 hours ago, radoran said: Wasn't that what Grossmannn was here for? Before he was "disappointing" and we're all "glad he's gone"? My problem is the Flyers playing "not to lose" in that situation. It was 5-on-5 with an empty net at the other end and they can't even clear the damn zone - forget clearing in front of the net. They were trying to run out the clock and they got beat. Mark this one down as a missed point if they fall just short of the playoffs. And holy hell, I hate the shootout (and the Columbus goal song, for that matter - just terrible). As for the draft position and all, I don't think that picking 13-14 will be much different than picking 15-17. And if that's the choice, I'd rather have the first round shot at the Caps and pick 15 than coming up just short and picking 13. Absolutely...unless of course we're sitting at 13-14 and win one of those top 3 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 9 hours ago, briere48 said: the big problem with this team is experience, when you have alot of inexperience players playing inconsistent hockey starts happening. i understand everyone loves our young defense coming up from phantoms and juniors but do you think this team will better with those younger players? you have to remember they have never played an nhl game, it's possible if hextall relies on them, this team will take step back, because you are adding inexperience players on back end and possible ghost could hit a slump because he's not vet either and it will be a shooting gallery on our goalies, i really dont think it's a good idea. i think if this team had more experience they would be a contender. im not saying overpay for anyone, im saying add some cheap vets on this team and i think this team will be a contender next year because rushing the young guys could really backfire on hextall and the team not unless an injury happens. Did Ghost and his NHL inexperience hurt the Flyers this year? He was the best thing that happened to this blueline. Shultz has the most experience out of any of our defencemen and he's one of our worst. Adding cheap vets on the blueline is going to give us more of the same that we already have...lousy defence. Hardly anyone lets their good defencemen leave...that's why we have the garbage back there that we do....you have to draft your own. I'll take Provorov and Ghost back there next year over Shultz and Streit (our two most experienced Dmen) all day long. And throw in Konecny over Umberger (one of our most experienced forwards who also sucks). Skill, that's what Philly needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briere48 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: Did Ghost and his NHL inexperience hurt the Flyers this year? He was the best thing that happened to this blueline. Shultz has the most experience out of any of our defencemen and he's one of our worst. Adding cheap vets on the blueline is going to give us more of the same that we already have...lousy defence. Hardly anyone lets their good defencemen leave...that's why we have the garbage back there that we do....you have to draft your own. I'll take Provorov and Ghost back there next year over Shultz and Streit (our two most experienced Dmen) all day long. And throw in Konecny over Umberger (one of our most experienced forwards who also sucks). Skill, that's what Philly needs. and what if it doesnt work it, can you at least have a benefit of doubt instead of saying everything in draft is a guarantee? yes hextall does some good things but morin, sanheim, provorov, konecny, they still have to prove they can play in the nhl. you cant say these guys are going to be superstars unless they can play against good competition and im not talking about preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, briere48 said: and what if it doesnt work it, can you at least have a benefit of doubt instead of saying everything in draft is a guarantee? yes hextall does some good things but morin, sanheim, provorov, konecny, they still have to prove they can play in the nhl. you cant say these guys are going the superstars unless they can play against good competition and im not talking about preseason. What if it doesn't work? Haven't the Flyers tried it by signing/trading for veteran defencemen for FORTY YEARS? How'd that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 9 minutes ago, briere48 said: instead of saying everything in draft is a guarantee? I didn't see where FC said everything was guaranteed. He just said he'd take Ghost and Provorov over Schultz and Streit. And you would be hard press to find someone here (besides you obviously) who wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Absolutely...unless of course we're sitting at 13-14 and win one of those top 3 picks. True lightning does strike. And I have hit a number on roulette. I'd still rather have the team get playoff experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Just now, radoran said: True lightning does strike. And I have hit a number on roulette. I'd still rather have the team get playoff experience. Hey, we got a legitimate defenceman in the 3rd round. Ok, so maybe we used up all our luck for this century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Just now, flyercanuck said: Hey, we got a legitimate defenceman in the 3rd round. Ok, so maybe we used up all our luck for this century. Well, I've never sat down at the wheel and hit a number right out of the gate... When you're talking about a less than 4% chance, it's hard for me to take the "well, it could happen approach" seriously. I guess the basic point is, at this time it is better for them - from my perspective - to fight their way into the playoffs than it is to "just miss" and have a 1-2% of a top pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, radoran said: I guess the basic point is, at this time it is better for them - from my perspective - to fight their way into the playoffs than it is to "just miss" and have a 1-2% of a top pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 1 hour ago, briere48 said: and what if it doesnt work it, can you at least have a benefit of doubt instead of saying everything in draft is a guarantee? yes hextall does some good things but morin, sanheim, provorov, konecny, they still have to prove they can play in the nhl. you cant say these guys are going to be superstars unless they can play against good competition and im not talking about preseason. nothing is a guarantee toughfighter... I will bet my left nut that Provorov and Sanheim will be the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 2 hours ago, briere48 said: saying everything in draft is a guarantee? yes hextall does some good things but morin, sanheim, provorov, konecny, they still have to prove they can play in the nhl. First, nobody says everything in a draft is a guarantee. Nobody here, nobody out there. Nobody. That's why they call the tank award the "Draft Lottery" Second, yes, all players must first prove they can play in the NHL. Wayne Gretzky even had to. Third, and most importantly, where do you think hockey players come from? Are we to suppose that "players that have already proven that they can play in the NHL" just suddenly pop out of the ******* ground, fully formed and mature, like Hobbesian mushrooms?! I mean jesus man, you hurt my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 On 3/23/2016 at 10:46 AM, radoran said: I see it more as "consistency" than "leadership" - The Flyers are clearly a team that is "playing for each other" and that's the hallmark of "leadership." BUT Flyers are 8-8-3 against the bottom two teams in each division. 3-4-2 against the last place teams. Good teams rack up those points. The Caps are 8-0-2 against the last place teams and 15-2-3 against the bottom two teams. Is that Ovechkin's "leadership" or is that just better top to bottom talent? I recall many people questioning Ovechkin's "leadership" skills. And they still do. The Stars are 7-4-1 against the last place teams and 15-6-1 against the bottom two teams. Is that all because of Benn's "leadership"? The Flyers need more consistency in their games to play well all the time. That's not leadership, per se, that's maturity and growth and, yes, top to bottom talent. They're not that far away, but they're not there yet entirely. I don't want it to sound as though I'm disagreeing with you, because I don't disagree at all. In fact when everyone was talking about the big week against Detroit, Chicago and the Pens, my eyes were on the four game stretch against far weaker teams because it seems far more in the Flyers make up to win the big games and then blow it against Columbus (or Edmonton or Buffalo or Tornto or... take your pick really). But all that aside, your numbers frighten me. Why do the Stars have so many more games against bottom feeders than the Caps or Flyers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Just now, King Knut said: I don't want it to sound as though I'm disagreeing with you, because I don't disagree at all. In fact when everyone was talking about the big week against Detroit, Chicago and the Pens, my eyes were on the four game stretch against far weaker teams because it seems far more in the Flyers make up to win the big games and then blow it against Columbus (or Edmonton or Buffalo or Tornto or... take your pick really). But all that aside, your numbers frighten me. Why do the Stars have so many more games against bottom feeders than the Caps or Flyers? Stars have 22 games so far this season Caps have 20 games Flyers have 19 Not that big a discrepancy. For one thing, not every Division plays the same number of games against each team in other divisions. Flyers also still have games against WPG, COL and TOR They really need to clean up against the lower teams in order for "big wins" to mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 1 hour ago, radoran said: True lightning does strike. And I have hit a number on roulette. I'd still rather have the team get playoff experience. We do better with picks in the teens and 20's (Giroux, Konecny, Gagne) than in the top 3 anyway. (JVR... I guess Mike Ricci was good for a year before we traded him?) This team and these players need to touch the playoffs again. Right now, They could literally end up anywhere from 8th to 5th to not in it at all. In the frist round (if they made it) they could face The Caps, Rangers, Panthers, Bruins or potentially even The Penguins if both PA teams keep playing well. There's too much up for grabs right now to assume anything about the playoffs or positioning. The Caps and Rangers are definitely in. Aside form that, 3 wins in 10 games are all that separate 3rd and 8th in the division and #5 has won 6 in a row, #7 has lost 4 in a row, #6 has lost 5 out of 6 and #8 has won 10 of 15. It's kind of a crazy time. a chance at the lottery means nothing to me at this point. You end up with Kane or you end up with JVR. It's unfairness in the name of fairness and I could give a rip. I'd just as soon be a fan of a team that never has to worry about the lottery once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 14 minutes ago, radoran said: Stars have 22 games so far this season Caps have 20 games Flyers have 19 Not that big a discrepancy. For one thing, not every Division plays the same number of games against each team in other divisions. Flyers also still have games against WPG, COL and TOR They really need to clean up against the lower teams in order for "big wins" to mean anything. 3 games are all that separate 9th and 3rd place in the east right now. I don't know. I think that's kind of important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 38 minutes ago, Podein25 said: First, nobody says everything in a draft is a guarantee. Nobody here, nobody out there. Nobody. That's why they call the tank award the "Draft Lottery" Second, yes, all players must first prove they can play in the NHL. Wayne Gretzky even had to. Third, and most importantly, where do you think hockey players come from? Are we to suppose that "players that have already proven that they can play in the NHL" just suddenly pop out of the ******* ground, fully formed and mature, like Hobbesian mushrooms?! I mean jesus man, you hurt my head. Defensemen Flyers have traded for since 2002 Radko Gudas Andrew MacDonald Mark Streit Luke Schenn Pavel Kubina Nicklas Grossssmannnnn Andrej Meszaros Chris Pronger Matt Carle Andrew Alberts Steve Eminger Danny Syvret (twice) Jaroslav Modry Jason Smith Kimmo TImonen Lasse Kukkonen Braydon Coburn Ryan Parent Alexi Zhitnik Denis Gauthier Vladimir Malakhov Mattias Timander Danny Markov Dimitri Yuskevich Ryan Bast Marcus Ragnarsson The pick that became Joni Pitkanen Kim Johnsson There are a few gems in there, but if that's the results of trading for "experience" then I'm comfortable with seeing how the young ones develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, radoran said: Defensemen Flyers have traded for since 2002 Radko Gudas Andrew MacDonald Mark Streit Luke Schenn Pavel Kubina Nicklas Grossssmannnnn Andrej Meszaros Chris Pronger Matt Carle Andrew Alberts Steve Eminger Danny Syvret (twice) Jaroslav Modry Jason Smith Kimmo TImonen Lasse Kukkonen Braydon Coburn Ryan Parent Alexi Zhitnik Denis Gauthier Vladimir Malakhov Mattias Timander Danny Markov Dimitri Yuskevich Ryan Bast Marcus Ragnarsson The pick that became Joni Pitkanen Kim Johnsson There are a few gems in there, but if that's the results of trading for "experience" then I'm comfortable with seeing how the young ones develop. to be fair, a lot of those guys (including Grossman actually) kinda worked out for a season and then fizzled due to injury or retirement or something else. That said, I'm in complete agreement with you and if watching Ghost right now doesn't change anyone else's opinion, then they're just being stubborn and silly and... well dumb. Who the hell are we going to trade for anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, King Knut said: 3 games are all that separate 9th and 3rd place in the east right now. I don't know. I think that's kind of important. Yeah, and the Flyers still have three games against bottom feeders. That will be 22 for the year Dallas has one (Colorado), That will be 23, Washington has Colorado and Columbus. That will be 22. So it works out - at the end of the year - to be one game different (assuming the standings finish where they are), Again, not every team plays the same number of games against each team in each division. It's part of the unbalanced schedule. For example, the Flyers played NYR and NYI five times each and the other teams in the Metro four times apiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 1 minute ago, radoran said: Yeah, and the Flyers still have three games against bottom feeders. That will be 22 for the year Dallas has one (Colorado), That will be 23, Washington has Colorado and Columbus. That will be 22. So it works out - at the end of the year - to be one game different (assuming the standings finish where they are), Again, not every team plays the same number of games against each team in each division. It's part of the unbalanced schedule. For example, the Flyers played NYR and NYI five times each and the other teams in the Metro four times apiece. Well then that's an explanation. The Flyers ahve 3 games against the bottom and the Stars have none. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 56 minutes ago, Podein25 said: First, nobody says everything in a draft is a guarantee. Nobody here, nobody out there. Nobody. That's why they call the tank award the "Draft Lottery" Second, yes, all players must first prove they can play in the NHL. Wayne Gretzky even had to. Third, and most importantly, where do you think hockey players come from? Are we to suppose that "players that have already proven that they can play in the NHL" just suddenly pop out of the ******* ground, fully formed and mature, like Hobbesian mushrooms?! I mean jesus man, you hurt my head. relax pods.... I am growing the next Connor McDavid in my backyard right now... should be fully grown in a few weeks of warm weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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