Does Murray's play mean the end of MAF

[nossagog]

Matt Murray, 21 years old, first NHL playoff experience. Eight wins, three losses. 2.14 GAA and a .928 SV% and one shut out.   Pretty decent numbers for anyone let alone a 21 year old.   

 

But the thing that impresses me is his positioning.  He doesn't slide himself out of position, and seems to be square to the shooter all the time.  Sure he has flaws, like he sits a little low in new leaving the top corners open, but that can be worked on.  In addition, he's really confident in moving the puck behind the net.   He's basically played well enough that anyone would not mind this kid as their future goalie. 

 

Which begs the question, does this mean the end of the Marc Andre Fleury days in Pittsburgh. 

 

A big decision is coming with the expansion draft in 2017, if you can only protect one goalie, how can you not protect Murray.  MAF will be 32 next year. That gives a few more years left in the NHL, but Murray could be the next franchise goalie to lead the team for the next 10 years.    

 

Sure, his NHL experience is a pretty small sample size, but even at the AHL level he has been pretty dominant the past two years.  With the possible upside of his future, how can you not protect him in the expansion draft.

 

Right now I'd be thinking, try to move Fleury in the next year if possible to get a decent return for him.   

 

 

[pilldoc]

Hard decisions for sure. I half joking referenced this exact same thought in the Tampa /Pittsburgh playoff thread.  I said does Murray do what MAF hasn't been able to do for almost 10 years.  However correct me if I'm wrong..wasn't MAF around 22 or 23 when he won his 1st cup with the Pens?  Then MAF became a headcase when it came playoff time.  Moving forward, it looks like Murray could be your man. (that will make a lot of Pen fans very happy)

[B21]

1 hour ago, nossagog said:

Matt Murray, 21 years old, first NHL playoff experience. Eight wins, three losses. 2.14 GAA and a .928 SV% and one shut out.   Pretty decent numbers for anyone let alone a 21 year old.   

 

But the thing that impresses me is his positioning.  He doesn't slide himself out of position, and seems to be square to the shooter all the time.  Sure he has flaws, like he sits a little low in new leaving the top corners open, but that can be worked on.  In addition, he's really confident in moving the puck behind the net.   He's basically played well enough that anyone would not mind this kid as their future goalie. 

 

Which begs the question, does this mean the end of the Marc Andre Fleury days in Pittsburgh. 

 

A big decision is coming with the expansion draft in 2017, if you can only protect one goalie, how can you not protect Murray.  MAF will be 32 next year. That gives a few more years left in the NHL, but Murray could be the next franchise goalie to lead the team for the next 10 years.    

 

Sure, his NHL experience is a pretty small sample size, but even at the AHL level he has been pretty dominant the past two years.  With the possible upside of his future, how can you not protect him in the expansion draft.

 

Right now I'd be thinking, try to move Fleury in the next year if possible to get a decent return for him.   

 

 

 

Sadly, I agree.  It's not a reflection of Fleury.  I think the Pens would still be 1-1 with the Bolts if he had started every game versus Murray.  But - from a strictly business point of view? It almost has to happen.  Replacing Fleury w/ Murray saves the Pens about $4,000,000 in cap space for the next three seasons plus whatever the difference is between what Murray gets as an RFA versus what Fleury makes in the years after that.  That's just a no brainer.

 

That being said - there have been some dents in Murray's armor the last few games.  He HAS to make that save on Drouin last night.  The Beagle goal (from the bad angle) against the Caps also comes to mind.  A few more of those and I bring MAF back in. 

 

 

[B21]

59 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Hard decisions for sure. I half joking referenced this exact same thought in the Tampa /Pittsburgh playoff thread.  I said does Murray do what MAF hasn't been able to do for almost 10 years.  However correct me if I'm wrong..wasn't MAF around 22 or 23 when he won his 1st cup with the Pens?  Then MAF became a headcase when it came playoff time.  Moving forward, it looks like Murray could be your man. (that will make a lot of Pen fans very happy)

 

Close.  He was 24 when the lost to the Wings. 25 when they won.  He was nothing short of awful in the playoffs up until the last two years.  2.12 GAA and .927 SV% against the Rangers last year.  I trust him.  For me it's just the economics of the situation.

[mojo1917]

I wouldn't be in a hurry to part ways with MAF just yet.  Semyon Varlomov, Tukka Rask, are two guys right off the top of my head that came into the league like gang busters and have been uneven since.  I don't think goal is a bad position to have quality depth either. If a great offer for MAF comes along, i think JR has to look hard at it, but I wouldn't be actively shopping him.  I don't think there is a rush, contract wise so why not have two really good keepers for a little while ?

[Polaris922]

Lets not forget Jim Carey (the goaltender version). 

 

And honestly Fleury had two bad years in net in the playoffs.  Two particularly bad years but really just two.  11-12 and 12-13. 

[notfondajane]

Should Fleury be traded,that means Zatkoff would be Murray's backup, would you leave him unprotected in the expansion draft?  I'm not sure if there's a goalie ready in WBS!

[B21]

23 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I wouldn't be in a hurry to part ways with MAF just yet.  Semyon Varlomov, Tukka Rask, are two guys right off the top of my head that came into the league like gang busters and have been uneven since.  I don't think goal is a bad position to have quality depth either. If a great offer for MAF comes along, i think JR has to look hard at it, but I wouldn't be actively shopping him.  I don't think there is a rush, contract wise so why not have two really good keepers for a little while ?

 

Good points.  The question is - can the Pens afford to keep Fleury at $5,750,000 when a comparable player making $600,000ish can replace him?

 

To me the questions are....

 

Do you want this roster with Fleury? Or...

 

Do you want this roster with Murray and another $4,000,000 top 6 winger?

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, B21 said:

To me the questions are....

 

Do you want this roster with Fleury? Or...

 

Do you want this roster with Murray and another $4,000,000 top 6 winger?

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable ditching a known quantity for 4 weeks of good work, MAF  he is a good player. I don't think you get comparable performance from a 600k guy...  I mean signing another quality winger would be great but if Murray starts pooping the bed and there's Zatkoff or insert a journeyman goaltender here behind him...is it worth it ? can you win all your games 7- 5  with the new winger ? I don't know if i'm bold enough to make that move just yet... Now at the deadline next year and Murray's .915 and 2.6 ish i think i can make that move.

[radoran]

Who needs a goalie AND is one of the 18 teams on Fleury's approved trade list?

 

And what do they send back?

 

Honestly,  I just don't see the Pens dealing Fleury just after re-signing him...

[flyercanuck]

Anyone who hasn't had the luxury knows theres nothing wrong with two good goalies until it become a problem. Fleury certainly doesn't seem the type to moan (though he may need a 2nd psychiatrist next season) and Murray has shown plenty of patience so far in his career.

 

Until the inevitable "I'm #1" rears it's ugly head, they should keep both.

[yave1964]

Look at Fleury's stats, for six years in a row his goals against has been between 2.29 and 2.39 and his save pct. has been between .915 and .921 he is as consistent of a goalie as any in the game. You know what you are getting year in and year out, like punching a clock.

 Until April.

  His adventures in postseason implosions do seem far behind him in the rear view mirror but at a time when goal scoring tightens up, his goals against in the postseason has been higher for 6 of the past 7 years. Fair or not, he has a rep as a regular season goalie.

  Personally, I have watched the Wings with Mrazek/Howard trying to decide what they have. To a point I agree that two goalies can be better than one to paraphrase Flyercanuck, but I remember when Al Arbour traded Chico Resch to the Colorado Rockies his comment was 'Sometimes when you have two goalies you have none.' to paraphrase the late great Arbour.

  I would probably at this point ride Murray, bring in a veteran backup with talent who knows his role and what is expected of him, and trade Fleury to someone like the Flames who desperately need a goalie. The cap room would allow the Pens to resign their RFA players and even add a vet or two.

[Polaris922]

Fleury's playoff stats haven't been too bad outside of the two years previously mentioned, and this season he seemed to be winning games when the rest of the team just wasn't. 

 

It comes down to numbers though.  Can you do just as well at a quarter of the price?  Yes of course...  for now.  So the real determining factor is whether or not Murray is the real deal or just having a good streak...  a good LONG streak.  I don't know the answer...  so I guess it's a good thing I'm not the one who has to decide.  Seems they have all next season to figure it out, so I'd expect Murray to get a good long look in net. 

[notfondajane]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:46 AM, B21 said:

 

Good points.  The question is - can the Pens afford to keep Fleury at $5,750,000 when a comparable player making $600,000ish can replace him?

 

To me the questions are....

 

Do you want this roster with Fleury? Or...

 

Do you want this roster with Murray and another $4,000,000 top 6 winger?

To be honest, I would take your second offer. With a draft pick instead of a top 6 winger! ( using it to get a descent goalie for the future.) Unfortunately it's not my choice!

[notfondajane]

21 hours ago, Polaris922 said:

Fleury's playoff stats haven't been too bad outside of the two years previously mentioned, and this season he seemed to be winning games when the rest of the team just wasn't. 

 

It comes down to numbers though.  Can you do just as well at a quarter of the price?  Yes of course...  for now.  So the real determining factor is whether or not Murray is the real deal or just having a good streak...  a good LONG streak.  I don't know the answer...  so I guess it's a good thing I'm not the one who has to decide.  Seems they have all next season to figure it out, so I'd expect Murray to get a good long look in net. 

If Fleury is to be moved he maybe moved by the draft deadline! Hopefully, they could get a draft pick for him and a goalie for the future would be pick.

[notfondajane]

On 5/19/2016 at 9:46 AM, yave1964 said:

Look at Fleury's stats, for six years in a row his goals against has been between 2.29 and 2.39 and his save pct. has been between .915 and .921 he is as consistent of a goalie as any in the game. You know what you are getting year in and year out, like punching a clock.

 Until April.

  His adventures in postseason implosions do seem far behind him in the rear view mirror but at a time when goal scoring tightens up, his goals against in the postseason has been higher for 6 of the past 7 years. Fair or not, he has a rep as a regular season goalie.

  Personally, I have watched the Wings with Mrazek/Howard trying to decide what they have. To a point I agree that two goalies can be better than one to paraphrase Flyercanuck, but I remember when Al Arbour traded Chico Resch to the Colorado Rockies his comment was 'Sometimes when you have two goalies you have none.' to paraphrase the late great Arbour.

  I would probably at this point ride Murray, bring in a veteran backup with talent who knows his role and what is expected of him, and trade Fleury to someone like the Flames who desperately need a goalie. The cap room would allow the Pens to resign their RFA players and even add a vet or two.

Fleury 's post season performance probably cost the Pens aleast 2 Cup appearances!

[yave1964]

IF and it is stil that, IF the Penguins do deal Fleury, it comes down to supply and demand.

 

Teams in need of a goalie:

Calgary- in the Worst way.

Buffalo- but for some reason they seem to think Lehner is a real goalie. He is not.

Carolina- Cam Ward era is over.

Dallas- Two Finns do not make one goalie.

Brooklyn- Halak is old and brittle.

Toronto- Scorched Earth, Bernier following Reimer out of town.

 

Wow, that is a lot of teams in need of a goalie. Usually there are two or three teams tops. And that is not counting clubs like Colorado (Varlamov) and Columbus (Bobrovsky) who are becoming disenchanted with what they have.

 

 Goalies beside Fleury who are available include:

Reimer- best UFA of a bad lot

Ward- getting old, looking for one more payday.

Jimmy Howard- makes too much money, the Wings would have to eat a huge chunk of salary.

Frederik Andersen: Ducks are going with Gibson next year, he would be the plumb prize to go after.

Al Montoya- Had great year in Florida as Luongo's backup.

Pavelec- Jets looking to move him out to anoint Hellboy as the goalie of the future.

 

  Fleury IMHO would be right there with Andersen as the two top goalies to go after. Andersen is cheaper and younger so he will be a hot commodity.

Teams usually like to trade outside of their conference so I could see him going East while Fleury goes West. The Western teams in need are:

Calgary and Dallas.

Dallas has an insane amount of talented offensive forwards in the pipeline, if Pittsburgh wants to take Niemi to serve as Murray's backup they could probably get a solid offensive prospect and a first rounder.

 Calgary is in desperate need, with a good goalie they would have been a playoff team. They do not have forwards to move but the Penguins could possibly get T.J. Brodie who is one Hell of an offensive defenseman who is superfluous in Calgary where offensive d-men are the norm. Either Brodie or Dougie Hamilton.

  IMHO if Fleury is moved out, I see him going to one of those two spots.