Manning, Weal, Schenn elect arbitration

[RJ8812]

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

mojo...

 

For every ROR contract there's a Simmonds as well. John Tavares is a heck of a lot better player than Schenn, and he makes $5.5 a season. Jamie Benn comes in at $5.25  Pacioretty has scored 30 or over 4 of last 5 seasons at a $4.5 caphit. 

 

Just because someone is dumb enough to give Ryan O'Reilly that kind of money doesn't mean arbitration is going to hold all teams to that number.

They all signed those contracts under the old CBA

 

 

[mojo1917]

@flyercanuck

timing is everything.  There is no way MIke Conley (NBA) should be making more $, than, LeBron James, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry...yet he is because his number came up at the right time.  also i think the comparable players mentioned by rad have a lot more in common with Schenn than Tavares Benn and the Max Patch based on their ages/time in the league. probably the best comparo would be Barkov who I think is way better than Schenn but has similar numbers with similar service time. Barkov at 6 a year I think pulls Schenn's number up to 5 or more.

[OccamsRazor]

Well the good thing is the player elected it not the club....

 

The decision of the arbitrator is binding, although teams can walk away from an award in excess of $3.5 million if the salary arbitration hearing was player-elected (note: that $3.5 million figure is adjusted annually by the same percentage as the increase inaverage league salary, so the walk away limit is probably several $100,000 higher than $3.5 million this time around). 

Clubs cannot walk away from a salary arbitration hearing they've elected.

 

....so they could walk away. The down side is they would all be free agents and you get notbing in return for them...

 

...but they will all be sign to a new deal however i can't say they will remain a Flyer long now...

[AJgoal]

From Meltzer: " Meehan is one of the NHL's most seasoned agents, having represented hundreds of players and a few dozen Flyers over the years. While a strong advocate for his clients, Meehan is not usually one to get into very contentious negotiations even if the two sides are not close in terms. It's usually very businesslike. "

 

Last year, only 10% of arbitration cases didn't get settled prior to arbitration. 

 

If it does go, I would hope the Flyers go or two years instead of one.

[AJgoal]

There's little chance the Flyers will be able to walk away from an arbitration ruling for Weal or Manning.

[RJ8812]

1 minute ago, AJgoal said:

There's little chance the Flyers will be able to walk away from an arbitration ruling for Weal or Manning.

 

There's little chance any of our 3 players that filed for arbitration actually even make it that far

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, AJgoal said:

There's little chance the Flyers will be able to walk away from an arbitration ruling for Weal or Manning.

 

 

True.

[AJgoal]

2 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

 

There's little chance any of our 3 players that filed for arbitration actually even make it that far

 

Yes. I've been saying that.

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

There's little chance the Flyers will be able to walk away from an arbitration ruling for Weal or Manning.

 

Very Good Point 

 

Which, to me, makes it even more puzzling. How does Weal (0 points in 14 career games) expect to get more than his qualifying offer? For that matter, how does (12 points in 77 career games) Manning?

 

I still think a sign-and-trade is more likely. I still don't see where either of them gets any sort of real time in the NHL with the Flyers.

[brelic]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

mojo...

 

For every ROR contract there's a Simmonds as well. John Tavares is a heck of a lot better player than Schenn, and he makes $5.5 a season. Jamie Benn comes in at $5.25  Pacioretty has scored 30 or over 4 of last 5 seasons at a $4.5 caphit. 

 

Just because someone is dumb enough to give Ryan O'Reilly that kind of money doesn't mean arbitration is going to hold all teams to that number.

 

Do they look at when the contracts were signed? Simmonds, for example, is already halfway through his contract and would certainly get more money if he were bargaining in today's market. 

 

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Do they look at when the contracts were signed? Simmonds, for example, is already halfway through his contract and would certainly get more money if he were bargaining in today's market. 

 

 

Sure.

 

And there's players who would get less if they were bargaining in todays market. 

[AJgoal]

On 7/6/2016 at 2:43 PM, radoran said:

 

Very Good Point 

 

Which, to me, makes it even more puzzling. How does Weal (0 points in 14 career games) expect to get more than his qualifying offer? For that matter, how does (12 points in 77 career games) Manning?

 

I still think a sign-and-trade is more likely. I still don't see where either of them gets any sort of real time in the NHL with the Flyers.

 

Weal just doesn't have numbers. I don't get his filing at all. He played four fourteen pro games all last season. Forget the NHL. 14 games in ANY PRO LEAGUE. I don't know where he thinks his number could possibly go.

 

Manning is a bit more interesting. Points aren't there, but in this day of advanced stats, he shakes out very well from a defensive standpoint. He won't be getting 3.5+ million a year, but I think he'd end up getting the biggest percentage raise of the three if all three hit arbitration.

 

If you could swap Brandon Manning straight up for any of the defensemen on Edmonton, would you do it? Which ones would you be willing to do it for - ignoring contracts?

[aziz]

20 minutes ago, radoran said:

Which, to me, makes it even more puzzling. How does Weal (0 points in 14 career games) expect to get more than his qualifying offer? For that matter, how does (12 points in 77 career games) Manning?

 

only thing that makes sense to me is he hopes to get a one-way deal out of it.

[radoran]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Do they look at when the contracts were signed? Simmonds, for example, is already halfway through his contract and would certainly get more money if he were bargaining in today's market. 

 

 

And I'll wager Tavares will break the bank when his contract expires after the 17-18 season.

 

When you look at "comparables" of players signing this season, Schenn is likely due at least $5M.

[radoran]

Just now, AJgoal said:

If you could swap Brandon Manning straight up for any of the defensemen on Edmonton, would you do it? Which ones would you be willing to do it for?

 

Darnell Nurse

 

After that, I don't really want any of them

[AJgoal]

1 minute ago, aziz said:

 

only thing that makes sense to me is he hopes to get a one-way deal out of it.

 

But even that doesn't make sense. The Flyers were afraid to put him in LV last season, so he got his full NHL salary. I don't see that changing, I think some team will pick him up if waived.

[radoran]

Just now, AJgoal said:

 

But even that doesn't make sense. The Flyers were afraid to put him in LV last season, so he got his full NHL salary. I don't see that changing, I think some team will pick him up if waived.

 

It's a head-scratcher. Flyers have 11 forwards signed for next season with Schenn and Cousins (IMO) ahead of Weal in the "unsigned" category (not to mention Konecny, Rubstov, Aube-Kubel, Leier, etc.).

 

And even is Some get their wish and the Flyers part ways with Vandevalde, it doesn't really open up a spot for Weal.

[AJgoal]

58 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Darnell Nurse

 

After that, I don't really want any of them

 

I'd take Klefblom, too.

 

But the reason I bring it up is that he compares very favorably from an advanced point of view to a guy who is playing up there for 5.5 million a season - and that was just from me picking random names out. I don't think he'll get close to that, but don't think for a second that comparisons based on Corsi, Fenwick, and per/60 totals aren't going to start to factor into arbitration cases:

[radoran]

Just now, AJgoal said:

 

I'd take Klefblom, too.

 

But the reason I bring it up is that he compares very favorably from an advanced point of view to a guy who is playing up there for 5.5 million a season - and that was just from me picking random names out. I don't think he'll get close to that, but don't think for a second that comparisons based on Corsi, Fenwick, and per/60 totals aren't going to start to factor into arbitration cases:

 

I fully expect them to factor in but I do have a significant problem with the "per 60" way of looking at things. A guy who is on a sheltered pair getting 15 minutes a game isn't in the same position as a guy playing top pair minutes for 22 minutes a game.

 

Sekera also has 2.5 times the number of points last season that Manning has in his career. And I do think that Edmonton needed to overpay to get him to commit to six years.

 

Hell, for that matter, we don't even need to look to Edmonton. Just look at Andrew "definitely an NHL player" MacDonald.

[AJgoal]

30 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I fully expect them to factor in but I do have a significant problem with the "per 60" way of looking at things. A guy who is on a sheltered pair getting 15 minutes a game isn't in the same position as a guy playing top pair minutes for 22 minutes a game.

 

Sort of. He's also not getting PP time, and in 64% more even strength time, Sekera managed all of 2 assists more. In contrast, Sekera picked up 2 of his goals and 11 assists on the power play, where he had 10 times the minutes on the ice. And there doesn't seem to be too much rhyme or reason to who the defensive pairings were matched up against. Manning, for example, played the most minutes against the Panarin-Kane line amongst Flyers defensemen 5v5. He played most often against Phil Kessel when facing the Pens. I'm not trying to extol his virtues here other than to somewhat wonder aloud (again) if I underappreciated him a bit. But there are some decent arguments that he deserves more than the $690-ish thousand QO that could be put forth in his arbitration case.

 

And if you bring up AMac, he'll get a 10+ million award.

 

[AJgoal]

For his part, Hextall said on tv yesterday that he expected the filings, and he doesn't mind them. He feels it gives the parties a deadline.

[OccamsRazor]

If anyone should be worried about the TJ signing it should be Manning. TJ could bump him straight to the Phantoms after the preseason.

 

I could also see Nick Schultz being bumped and moved to with him only under contract for this year at 2.2 mill with today inflated salaries.

 

I can still see Ivan winning a spot amongst this corp i really can.

 

 

 

I see Ivan means business has a new number. From this morning's camp.

 

 

TK i think will be back to juniors to give him time to beef up some.

 

Schenn will get a 5-6 year deal at 5+ mill.

 

Weal is the hard one to call. He will get a chance but he will have to be on fire to bump VV and win a spot end the end i can see him traded so he is not lost on waivers for nothing.

[TedZep]

The Flyers missed out on Patrick Kane, picked Van Reimsdyk, traded JVR for Luke Schenn, traded L. Schenn (& Lecavalier) for Weal and a 3rd rounder.  With Weal apparently leaving and having zero impact in any of his whopping four games with the Flyers, essentially the Flyers traded the 2nd pick of the 2007 draft for Carsen Twarynski.

 

Damned fickle ping pong balls.

 

 

 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Weal electing to go to arbitration is a real head scratcher.  He played 14 games with zero points.  Why does he think he deserves more than the qualifying offer?  If I was the arbitrator hearing his case, he would get the league minimum instead of a raise.

[AJgoal]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Meltzers-Musings-Weal-Arbitration-Alumni/45/78065