Camp Review/Prospect Write-up-

[DaGreatGazoo]

Another good article from Broad Street Hockey.   Solid reviews of most/all the main prospects at development camp this weekend.

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2016/7/11/12143382/philadelphia-flyers-nhl-development-camp-prospects-analysis

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

Another good article from Broad Street Hockey.   Solid reviews of most/all the main prospects at development camp this weekend.

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2016/7/11/12143382/philadelphia-flyers-nhl-development-camp-prospects-analysis

 

 

It was a good read Gaz thanks. I still think Provorov will be a Flyer.

 

 

 

Phantoms have a legit chance to make the playoffs next year with the influx of talent they will get.

[albertaflyer]

41 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

It was a good read Gaz thanks. I still think Provorov will be a Flyer.

 

 

 

Phantoms have a legit chance to make the playoffs next year with the influx of talent they will get.

I watched Provorov a lot this past season. He's crazy good. But I don't think he will be on the Flyers next season. It is such a huge jump from the WHL to the NHL especially for D-men. We have to remember he's playing against basically kids in junior. Unless he totally dominates in training camp he will be sent back to juniors. At the stage the Flyers are at in rebuilding I don't think it will be a bad thing. I agree with Hexy if a young kid comes in and gives them no choice to be on the Flyer's they'll make room but if he's at the same level as vet your going to keep the veteran. Let the kid grow a little more.

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, albertaflyer said:

I watched Provorov a lot this past season. He's crazy good. But I don't think he will be on the Flyers next season. It is such a huge jump from the WHL to the NHL especially for D-men. We have to remember he's playing against basically kids in junior. Unless he totally dominates in training camp he will be sent back to juniors. At the stage the Flyers are at in rebuilding I don't think it will be a bad thing. I agree with Hexy if a young kid comes in and gives them no choice to be on the Flyer's they'll make room but if he's at the same level as vet your going to keep the veteran. Let the kid grow a little more.

 

 

He will be fine. Ekblad was fine making the jump i think Provorov will be fine as well. Hall was fine as well as others before him.

 

Sure not everyone can do it but he isn't your typical prospect. He'll be ok.

 

All he has to do is out shine the current Flyer collection of keystone cops on the blueline and he is in. Money in the bank.

[brelic]

34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

He will be fine. Ekblad was fine making the jump i think Provorov will be fine as well. Hall was fine as well as others before him.

 

Sure not everyone can do it but he isn't your typical prospect. He'll be ok.

 

All he has to do is out shine the current Flyer collection of keystone cops on the blueline and he is in. Money in the bank.

 

I believe that is pointing to the exception rather than the rule. Ekblad and Doughty both acquitted themselves very well as 18/19 year old rookies. They were also #1 and #2 overall picks. Hedman took about 5 seasons to become the force he is now, but I would add him to the list with Doughty and Ekblad.

 

What about all the others? Tyler Myers was excellent in his rookie year, but has been on a steady decline since then and was traded. What about Seth Jones? He did fine as a rookie, but was -23, and has since been traded - a guy who had been considered the #1 overall pick was traded after two seasons. 

 

There are many others in the same situation - start off strong, then decline. Bogosian, Luke Schenn. Others struggled, like Gudbranson (despite playing an extra year of junior, like Provorov just did), Larsson (yo-yo between NHL and AHL, and decline since rookie year), 

 

Then there are the others who spent time honing their game before making the jump. Ekman-Larsson, Ellis, Rielly, Pietrangelo, Lindholm, Murray, etc. 

 

All of these guys were picked ahead of Provorov except for Ellis and Myers. 

 

So as much as we might *think* he's ready - and he may very well be - history says he probably isn't. The Flyers have more to lose by being wrong than by waiting an extra year. I never want to see Provorov traded because we didn't handle him right.

 

[radoran]

9 minutes ago, brelic said:

So as much as we might *think* he's ready - and he may very well be - history says he probably isn't. The Flyers have more to lose by being wrong than by waiting an extra year. I never want to see Provorov traded because we didn't handle him right.

 

There's also no pressing "need" to get him into the lineup. What's the worst that happens? His entry level slides another year? Sure, one can say "injury" but that can happen to anyone, anywhere at any time.

 

I like where Hextall is coming from - if any kid plays their way onto the team and makes it impossible for them to send him down (as Gotstobehere did) then they will make room and keep him. Otherwise, he'll be back where he can play regularly.

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

Another good article from Broad Street Hockey.   Solid reviews of most/all the main prospects at development camp this weekend.

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2016/7/11/12143382/philadelphia-flyers-nhl-development-camp-prospects-analysis

 

 

Thanks...a good read!

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

He will be fine. Ekblad was fine making the jump i think Provorov will be fine as well. Hall was fine as well as others before him.

 

Sure not everyone can do it but he isn't your typical prospect. He'll be ok.

 

All he has to do is out shine the current Flyer collection of keystone cops on the blueline and he is in. Money in the bank.

 

Ekblad looked like a 20 year old man when he joined the Colts at age 15. When he was drafted by Florida 1st overall he was  6'4" 215 lbs and could grow a full beard in a matter of hours. 

 

You can't compare forwards to defencemen when it comes to joining the NHL...they generally make it at a younger age.

 

I think provorov has a great shot at making it...but if he doesn't, that's absolutely fine by me.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ekblad looked like a 20 year old man when he joined the Colts at age 15. When he was drafted by Florida 1st overall he was  6'4" 215 lbs and could grow a full beard in a matter of hours. 

 

You can't compare forwards to defencemen when it comes to joining the NHL...they generally make it at a younger age.

 

I think provorov has a great shot at making it...but if he doesn't, that's absolutely fine by me.

 

 

Calm down everyone. He is 6-1 202 plenty big enough to play in the NHL....not sure what his beard looks like or what that has anything to do with hockey.

 

Let it play out in camp if he beats one of these stiffs out (which is highly likely) then he'll be on the team. Simple as that. No need to live in fear.

[flyercanuck]

27 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Calm down everyone. He is 6-1 202 plenty big enough to play in the NHL....not sure what his beard looks like or what that has anything to do with hockey.

 

Let it play out in camp if he beats one of these stiffs out (which is highly likely) then he'll be on the team. Simple as that. No need to live in fear.

 

Ekblad was a lot more physically (and mentally) mature than anyone I'd ever seen play for the Colts.(hence the beard reference)

 

Provorov is certainly big enough, and talented enough, to play in the NHL. Whether he is ready maturity-wise, is left to be seen. Again, he seems to be that as well. But I haven't seen him up close or for long enough to get an absolute read on that. That's why I'm not 100% sold on him making the Flyers. He likely will.

[DaGreatGazoo]

I think this becomes the bigger issue: camp is only a few weeks. I'm not sure that's enough time to really evaluate if he's ready for 82 NHL games.  He won't be playing against full NHL rosters in preseason. 

Ghost was thrown into the fire, real NHL games against full rosters. It was easy to see he was ready. 

 

I'm not saying he's NOT ready, just saying I'm not sure he has enough time to prove, without a doubt, that he deserves to stay. And if there's doubt, he's going back to Juniors. 

 

Hexy has stated before he's not a fan of the 9 game tryout deal. Though in this case, it may be a great approach. 

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ekblad was a lot more physically (and mentally) mature than anyone I'd ever seen play for the Colts.(hence the beard reference)

 

Provorov is certainly big enough, and talented enough, to play in the NHL. Whether he is ready maturity-wise, is left to be seen. Again, he seems to be that as well. But I haven't seen him up close or for long enough to get an absolute read on that. That's why I'm not 100% sold on him making the Flyers. He likely will.

 

 

Hexy will do what is best for him. It will work itself out. If he does make the team and does make mistakes understand he will be given a chance to work them out. After everything i have seen and heard on him (one guy calling him the best defenseman to ever play in the WHL) i have a feeling he will be ok.

 

Although i haven't checked with Rick to see what the NHL guys thought of him i think he will have a good year if he makes the Flyers.

 

Mistakes will happen no matter the age he makes the jump. It's what he will do when they arise that will determine the maturity level he is at. I think he is in a good place and will prosper. 

 

Preseason will work it all out.

[OccamsRazor]

 

[flyercanuck]

11 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

I think this becomes the bigger issue: camp is only a few weeks. I'm not sure that's enough time to really evaluate if he's ready for 82 NHL games.  He won't be playing against full NHL rosters in preseason. 

Ghost was thrown into the fire, real NHL games against full rosters. It was easy to see he was ready. 

 

I'm not saying he's NOT ready, just saying I'm not sure he has enough time to prove, without a doubt, that he deserves to stay. And if there's doubt, he's going back to Juniors. 

 

Hexy has stated before he's not a fan of the 9 game tryout deal. Though in this case, it may be a great approach. 

 

Ghost was also 22...Provorov is 19.

 

I'd certainly like to see at least some games out of him.

[OccamsRazor]

16 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

I think this becomes the bigger issue: camp is only a few weeks. I'm not sure that's enough time to really evaluate if he's ready for 82 NHL games.  He won't be playing against full NHL rosters in preseason. 

Ghost was thrown into the fire, real NHL games against full rosters. It was easy to see he was ready. 

 

I'm not saying he's NOT ready, just saying I'm not sure he has enough time to prove, without a doubt, that he deserves to stay. And if there's doubt, he's going back to Juniors. 

 

Hexy has stated before he's not a fan of the 9 game tryout deal. Though in this case, it may be a great approach. 

 

 

Listen we can sit here and go back and forth all day. Come preseason he will have a chance to show he is ready. It will be decided then. I think he will seize the opportunity. And i'm not alone. Come October will we know.

[DaGreatGazoo]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Listen we can sit here and go back and forth all day. Come preseason he will have a chance to show he is ready. It will be decided then. I think he will seize the opportunity. And i'm not alone. Come October will we know.

Isn't that way this forum is for?  To go back and forth? 

 

 It's July-not much else to talk about. 

 

I'd love to see the kid in Philly this fall. Keep him and bury McDonald again. It's a wash capwiae. 

 

As you said, let's see what happens when he's playing against professionals in camp/preseason and not just dominating a prospect development camp.  

[OccamsRazor]

24 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

Isn't that way this forum is for?  To go back and forth? 

 

 It's July-not much else to talk about. 

 

I'd love to see the kid in Philly this fall. Keep him and bury McDonald again. It's a wash capwiae. 

 

As you said, let's see what happens when he's playing against professionals in camp/preseason and not just dominating a prospect development camp.  

 

 

No you agree or condiser youself REPORTED!!!!

 

Am i making myself clear?

 

Nah in all seriousness i'm just throwing my opinion in the hat. Feel free to debate away.

[ruxpin]

I'd prefer he goes back to juniors. 

 

If he really shines in camp to unbelievable levels then maybe, otherwise he's just 19.  As much as I'd love the future to start today, I'm not risking that future because I'm impatient.   

 

So, if he has an unbelievable camp, keep him for the 9 games and revisit. But I'm fine with sending him back having had a taste and wanting to work for more. 

[ruxpin]

This isn't meant for you, OR,  I swear. 

 

It's just that 40 years later I'm so tired of and exhausted by the incessant "do it yesterday" mentality of this organization.  I find the patience mantra refreshing and different so I'm willing to try it.  It's the first time in a very long time that I'm actually hopeful for the future. I'm in favor of an abundance of caution. 

[AJgoal]

Just now, ruxpin said:

I'd prefer he goes back to juniors. 

 

If he really shines in camp to unbelievable levels then maybe, otherwise he's just 19.  As much as I'd love the future to start today, I'm not risking that future because I'm impatient.   

 

So, if he has an unbelievable camp, keep him for the 9 games and revisit. But I'm fine with sending him back having had a taste and wanting to work for more. 

 

Hextall also has to believe that it won't hurt him in the long run.

 

" If a young kid comes in and makes us a better team and we don’t think we’re going to hurt him long-term, we’re going to keep him. If not, we’ll go with what we have. "

 

So it's not as simple as him being better than MacDonald or Manning, even over 9 games. And Hextall doesn't like the 9 game look, either.

[AJgoal]

Also, while it's not necessarily something to get caught up in, if Provorov plays in Juniors, his contract slides so it isn't up until MacDonald comes off the books.

 

FWIW, I doubt this is something the FO will worry about too much. But when you're looking at deals for Ghost next offseason, Morin the season after that, and Sanheim the season after that, it could be a back of the mind sort of thing.

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Hextall also has to believe that it won't hurt him in the long run.

 

" If a young kid comes in and makes us a better team and we don’t think we’re going to hurt him long-term, we’re going to keep him. If not, we’ll go with what we have. "

 

So it's not as simple as him being better than MacDonald or Manning, even over 9 games. And Hextall doesn't like the 9 game look, either.

No, I know. I understand and agree. And that's why I have little doubt he's going back. And at 19, I'm prefectly fine with that. 

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Also, while it's not necessarily something to get caught up in, if Provorov plays in Juniors, his contract slides so it isn't up until MacDonald comes off the books.

 

FWIW, I doubt this is something the FO will worry about too much. But when you're looking at deals for Ghost next offseason, Morin the season after that, and Sanheim the season after that, it could be a back of the mind sort of thing.

I'm actually confident it's smack right in the middle of their frontal lobe. 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I'd prefer he goes back to juniors. 

 

If he really shines in camp to unbelievable levels then maybe, otherwise he's just 19.  As much as I'd love the future to start today, I'm not risking that future because I'm impatient.   

 

So, if he has an unbelievable camp, keep him for the 9 games and revisit. But I'm fine with sending him back having had a taste and wanting to work for more. 

 

 I'm kind of leaning this way myself.

 

 I think Provorov has the talent to play in the NHL...the problem I have is that if playing in the NHL is the best thing for his development. I'd like to think he's better than at least one of the Flyers D. But do I want our potential #1 defenceman playing limited icetime in the NHL and having his arse parked in the pressbox for stretches of games or playing top minutes as the be-all end-all defenceman in the Dub with probable first overall 2017 pick Nolan Patrick? I'm thinking playing big minutes in all situations helps him develop more.

 

 Sean Couturier was good enough to make the NHL at a young age. He was "too good' to play another year of junior. And he's become a good NHLer. But you can't help but wonder if he would have been better offensively if given a bit more development in that department. Cause being the checking king for 5 years hasn't really given him much of an opportunity to hone the offensive skills.

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 I'm kind of leaning this way myself.

 

 I think Provorov has the talent to play in the NHL...the problem I have is that if playing in the NHL is the best thing for his development. I'd like to think he's better than at least one of the Flyers D. But do I want our potential #1 defenceman playing limited icetime in the NHL and having his arse parked in the pressbox for stretches of games or playing top minutes as the be-all end-all defenceman in the Dub with probable first overall 2017 pick Nolan Patrick? I'm thinking playing big minutes in all situations helps him develop more.

 

 Sean Couturier was good enough to make the NHL at a young age. He was "too good' to play another year of junior. And he's become a good NHLer. But you can't help but wonder if he would have been better offensively if given a bit more development in that department. Cause being the checking king for 5 years hasn't really given him much of an opportunity to hone the offensive skills.

 

I completely agree and I've kind of used Coots as an object lesson for patience when arguing this in my head. 

 

Just for argument sake, though. Say he plays this season in juniors. Next year he's 20. As a defenseman.   Are we still having this conversation?   He still has only had juniors experience. Shorter season, smaller players, etc. 

 

So what has changed other than a calendar year?   Doesn't he still have to break into the lineup next year same as this year?  Doesn't he still face the same growing pains of bigger, more skilled competition than he's used to, longer schedule, etc.   Isn't there the same likelihood of the rights of passage of lower pairing and some press box time? 

 

I've stated I'm for patience. I am.  I don't think there's any rush, for the reasons we've all stated.   I just wonder what changes the conversation at this point next year (other than maybe AHL instead of juniors).