AJgoal Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: Yes, so long as he doesn't take minutes away from actual prospects. Most of them are on defense, so it shouldn't be an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 On 7/11/2016 at 1:23 PM, radoran said: Porter got claimed because it was after the 12-day cutoff. As I read it, Flyers could certainly assign Weal to the AHL 13 days before the regular season starts. I really don't know what, if anything, this "World Cup" nonsense has on the situation. I don't know if that is correct. I thought all waiver eligible players that have an NHL contract (one way or two way) start in the NHL then have to go through waivers to be sent down. He can't be sent down until 12 days prior to the season. Then again, I may be talking out of my arse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 14 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: I don't know if that is correct. I thought all waiver eligible players that have an NHL contract (one way or two way) start in the NHL then have to go through waivers to be sent down. He can't be sent down until 12 days prior to the season. Then again, I may be talking out of my arse... I'm no expert, but that's not the way I read that rule. I read it that the window closes 12 days prior and doesn't open until after the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 46 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: I don't know if that is correct. I thought all waiver eligible players that have an NHL contract (one way or two way) start in the NHL then have to go through waivers to be sent down. He can't be sent down until 12 days prior to the season. Then again, I may be talking out of my arse... One question would be what's the first day guys can be assigned to the AHL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 43 minutes ago, radoran said: One question would be what's the first day guys can be assigned to the AHL... Wouldn't that be the kicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 10 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Wouldn't that be the kicker? No the long snapper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 32 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: No the long snapper! Well-played, my friend. Well-played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 2 hours ago, ruxpin said: I'm no expert, but that's not the way I read that rule. I read it that the window closes 12 days prior and doesn't open until after the end of the season. You have that exactly backwards. 13.2 The "Playing Season Waiver Period" shall begin on the twelfth (12th) day prior to the start of the Regular Season and end on the day following the last day of a Club's Playing Season. Subject to the provisions of this Article, the rights to the services of a Player may be Loaned to a club of another league, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: You have that exactly backwards. 13.2 The "Playing Season Waiver Period" shall begin on the twelfth (12th) day prior to the start of the Regular Season and end on the day following the last day of a Club's Playing Season. Subject to the provisions of this Article, the rights to the services of a Player may be Loaned to a club of another league, That's actually exactly what I'm saying and have been saying. But the 12th day prior would be a day too late since the window closes on the 12th day, And there is nothing that states they have to wait that long, although I can't imagine why in the this case it would make sense not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, ruxpin said: That's actually exactly what I'm saying and have been saying. But the 12th day prior would be a day too late since the window closes on the 12th day, I see what you're saying now. I thought Briere48 hijacked you account for a second. I don't think he can be waived before the waiver period opens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: I see what you're saying now. I thought Briere48 hijacked you account for a second. I don't think he can be waived before the waiver period opens. Right. You can't waive if there's no waiver. But until those 12 days starts (and throughout the season, of course) you can simply assign to the AHL. No waiver. I can't think of an example at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I remember it being done. I see what you're saying, though, so what I'm not sure of is if I remember it BEFORE the current CBA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Well if an team claims Weal he has to go on the roster. He can't be claimed and then asigned to that club's AHL team he would be subject to waivers again and Flyers could grab him and asign him to the Phantoms since they had already waived him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 10 hours ago, ruxpin said: Well-played, my friend. Well-played. Speaking of long snapper...Eagles long snapper..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 On 7/12/2016 at 10:07 AM, JR Ewing said: Yes, so long as he doesn't take minutes away from actual prospects. Those prospects need to earn those minutes, just like at the NHL level. And if those prospects can't beat out Weal, then they aren't very good prospects to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 24 minutes ago, brelic said: Those prospects need to earn those minutes, just like at the NHL level. And if those prospects can't beat out Weal, then they aren't very good prospects to begin with. Well, yeah... Maybe I should have been certain to say that Weal shouldn't take "deserved minutes" away from prospects. Certain things are fairly evident even if not expressly stated. What I'm saying is that playing an AHL veteran lineup and giving them the lion's share of the minutes while prospects don't play enough, all in the pursuit of placing them in a "winning environment", is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Just now, JR Ewing said: Well, yeah... Maybe I should have been certain to say that Weal shouldn't take "deserved minutes" away from prospects. Certain things are fairly evident even if not expressly stated. What I'm saying is that playing an AHL veteran lineup and giving them the lion's share of the minutes while prospects don't play enough, all in the pursuit of placing them in a "winning environment", is a bad idea. Well, it's not like he's 31-year-old journeyman Colin McDonald or something. Weal is all of 24 years old and really hasn't played in the NHL. I think that would still classify him as a "prospect" - albeit one who has shown he can produce in the AHL. He should "compete" for a spot on the NHL roster, but where he ends up may have more to do with waiver rules than anything. If they can get him to the AHL, I think they will. If they can't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 24 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: Well, yeah... Maybe I should have been certain to say that Weal shouldn't take "deserved minutes" away from prospects. Certain things are fairly evident even if not expressly stated. What I'm saying is that playing an AHL veteran lineup and giving them the lion's share of the minutes while prospects don't play enough, all in the pursuit of placing them in a "winning environment", is a bad idea. Hextall made it pretty clear the other day that losing is not acceptable at any level. He was dismayed by the losing streak of the Phantoms (4 years out of playoffs now). He mentioned how important it was to create a winning culture down there and have high level players that can mentor young kids and also challenge them. To your point, he also said it was key to find the balance between too overloaded with veteran AHL talent and developing prospects. But above all, Hextall's message is very clear - no one will be gifted a roster spot. Not at the NHL level, and not at the AHL level. I remember Hextall's observation from when he was an assistant GM under Holmgren that the Phantoms had all of FOUR Flyers draft picks in the lineup. I just looked at the upcoming roster, and I count at least 12 Flyers picks, plus a bunch of FA signings. Big difference. It might seem sometimes like Hextall is not doing much, or that he's taking too long. But there's only one to eat an elephant - one bite at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I laugh at the fact that LA traded Weal so that they wouldn't lose him for free via waivers. Well, they practically gave him away for nothing via trade instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I wonder if we could trade Weal to Edmonton for RNH. They're apparently just giving players away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 12 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: I see what you're saying now. I thought Briere48 hijacked you account for a second. I don't think he can be waived before the waiver period opens. Hey, I actually didn't realize what you were saying, so the hijack thing is possible. We actually agreed on the waiver period (12 days and all that rot). The part I didn't realize we were disagreeing on--and you may be right, I'm not sure--is whether any movement is permitted outside that. I'm operating under the understanding that people can be moved outside that without being exposed to waivers. The way I'm now understanding your posts is that you're saying the only time they can be moved is during the waiver period (12 days before season to 1 day after season) and, therefore, have to be exposed to waivers. It's highly possible you may be right since that would be consistent with the reason for waivers to begin with (protect players from being ying-yanged back and forth--kind of what Rad mentioned). Like I said, I (vaguely) think I remember people being shuttled outside the 12 day before to 1 day after period, but since I don't recall a specific example I'm probably either remembering incorrectly or remembering something before the current CBA. I don't know. I'm just spewing garbage on a message board all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 1 hour ago, radoran said: Well, it's not like he's 31-year-old journeyman Colin McDonald or something. Weal is all of 24 years old and really hasn't played in the NHL. I think that would still classify him as a "prospect" - albeit one who has shown he can produce in the AHL. He should "compete" for a spot on the NHL roster, but where he ends up may have more to do with waiver rules than anything. If they can get him to the AHL, I think they will. If they can't... He's not old, but we're definitely past the stage of rapid improvement in his game, especially with offense. My own window closes at 24 for not having found traction at the NHL level, and it seems to jibe with when NHL teams seem comfortable with cutting bait on players. I think he's probably held back quite a bit by his size: he's not a big producer for a small man, and most coaches probably feel uncomfortable playing him in their bottom 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 1 hour ago, brelic said: Hextall made it pretty clear the other day that losing is not acceptable at any level. He was dismayed by the losing streak of the Phantoms (4 years out of playoffs now). He mentioned how important it was to create a winning culture down there and have high level players that can mentor young kids and also challenge them. To your point, he also said it was key to find the balance between too overloaded with veteran AHL talent and developing prospects. But above all, Hextall's message is very clear - no one will be gifted a roster spot. Not at the NHL level, and not at the AHL level. I remember Hextall's observation from when he was an assistant GM under Holmgren that the Phantoms had all of FOUR Flyers draft picks in the lineup. I just looked at the upcoming roster, and I count at least 12 Flyers picks, plus a bunch of FA signings. Big difference. It might seem sometimes like Hextall is not doing much, or that he's taking too long. But there's only one to eat an elephant - one bite at a time. I agree with all of that, and hope that people haven't been down on the job Hextall has done. I think his approach is EXACTLY what the Flyers have needed for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Just now, JR Ewing said: He's not old, but we're definitely past the stage of rapid improvement in his game, especially with offense. My own window closes at 24 for not having found traction at the NHL level, and it seems to jibe with when NHL teams seem comfortable with cutting bait on players. I think he's probably held back quite a bit by his size: he's not a big producer for a small man, and most coaches probably feel uncomfortable playing him in their bottom 6. I'm not expecting very much - if anything at all - from Weal. But he did put up 172 points in 212 games over three seasons in the AHL and didn't really have a chance to play anywhere last season, We don't really know if he has NHL hands at this point - which is why I would characterize him as a "prospect" at this point. He clearly wasn't going to crack the LA lineup last season (they had a top 6 set and as you note he's not a "bottom 6" type of NHL player) and being a mid-season trade to a "system" coach like Hackstol likely wasn't going to result in a big chance with the Flyers. If he's going to "do something" (and I'm not at all saying "he will") then this is his put up or shut up training camp. And if he comes down on the "shut up" side of that equation, I really don't care where he plays and wouldn't care if the Flyers lost him on the waiver wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 14 hours ago, radoran said: One question would be what's the first day guys can be assigned to the AHL... So I went ahead and dug down into the CBA... Now, I am not a lawyer (and I don't play one on teevee), but as I read section 13.2 There isn't a "get out of waivers free" period. The only time you can waive a guy is in the "Playing Season Waiver Period". Quote The "Playing Season Waiver Period" shall begin on the twelfth (12th) day prior to the start of the Regular Season and end on the day following the last day of a Club's Playing Season. Subject to the provisions of this Article, the rights to the services of a Player may be Loaned to a club of another league, upon fulfillment of the following conditions, except when elsewhere expressly prohibited: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 1 hour ago, radoran said: So I went ahead and dug down into the CBA... Now, I am not a lawyer (and I don't play one on teevee), but as I read section 13.2 There isn't a "get out of waivers free" period. The only time you can waive a guy is in the "Playing Season Waiver Period". So what happens between the day after the season and the 12 days before? Technically no movement up or down then, right? That actually makes sense to me given what you already stated was the purpose for waivers in the first place. @AlaskaFlyerFan, until further notice, it seems you were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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