Superstar Crosby Favoritism

[hf101]

Yeah it is real...  

 

Anyone ( maybe @polaris  ) want to explain why Crosby didn't even get penalized on this slash that ripped off part of Methot's finger?

 

 

Methot will miss likely 3 weeks.  The Sens owner Melnyk wants a suspension until the end of the season.  ( Not gonna happen -- no way...  )

 

And the league has this to say...

 

 

Crosby's response...

Quote

"I'm just trying to get his stick and I think I caught his finger judging by his reaction and (the Senators') reaction," he told reporters after the game. "I've gotten those before, they don't feel good."

 

 

 

What's Crosby's excuse for this one?

 

 

ah... but Eric Johnson was suspended 2 games for his slash to the hand of Nielson a couple of years ago.

 

[pilldoc]

@hf101

 

Makes me wanna puke! 

 

 

[hf101]

3 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

@hf101

 

Makes me wanna puke! 

 

 

 

 I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase in cheap shots targeted to Crosby.  The Penguins definitely will be a target vs Ottawa -- this wasn't that long ago that it is forgotten.

 

 

 

[pilldoc]

I agree.....  then the league would have no one blame but themselves. I am not advocating on ice violence or retaliation, but I say lets make the crime fit the punishment there.  But this league wants to protect the Golden Boy.  It would be such a different story had the Pens moved to the Midwest as what was being reported years ago.

[flyerrod]

8 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase in cheap shots targeted to Crosby.  The Penguins definitely will be a target vs Ottawa -- this wasn't that long ago that it is forgotten.

 

 

 

When Methot skated off with the end of his finger hanging off, Chris Neil should have said suspension be damned, and gone after Crosby, with or without the puck. He did not, and I don't recall anyone else on the team even draw a penalty going after him. Crosby always has and always will get preferential treatment. It is one of the biggest reasons he is universally hated outside of Pittsburgh.

[nossagog]

Hey, I'll agree he should have been penalized for that, it's a slash by the book.    But come on guys, how many times do you see that every game.  Sure, Crosby bashed his fingers, should have got a penalty.  But its a fluke that it broke his fingers.  If the NHL suspends him for something everyone does, but in this case has a bad result, we've got a problem. 

 

But it's weird that you guys put up threads every time a Pens player does something.   I know you hate them. But you guys make it sound like we're the only team that does anything remotely wrong.  Have you seen how many players the Pens have out of the lineup throughout this season? Some times for weeks. And many of they due to illegal plays.  Out of all of them, the only one that caused an issues with the league was the one that sent Guentzel to LaLa land and probably out for the season.  And people whined about the suspension for that.    If Uncle Gary were protecting the Pens, he's not doing his job.   

 

Do hockey players make  bad plays that injure other players, yep all the time.  But it seems to only be thread worthy when its a Pens player that does the hurtin.  Otherwise its just a hockey play.  Yeah right. 

 

 

[radoran]

33 minutes ago, nossagog said:

Hey, I'll agree he should have been penalized for that, it's a slash by the book.    But come on guys, how many times do you see that every game.  Sure, Crosby bashed his fingers, should have got a penalty.  But its a fluke that it broke his fingers.  If the NHL suspends him for something everyone does, but in this case has a bad result, we've got a problem. 

 

But it's weird that you guys put up threads every time a Pens player does something.   I know you hate them. But you guys make it sound like we're the only team that does anything remotely wrong.  Have you seen how many players the Pens have out of the lineup throughout this season? Some times for weeks. And many of they due to illegal plays.  Out of all of them, the only one that caused an issues with the league was the one that sent Guentzel to LaLa land and probably out for the season.  And people whined about the suspension for that.    If Uncle Gary were protecting the Pens, he's not doing his job.   

 

Do hockey players make  bad plays that injure other players, yep all the time.  But it seems to only be thread worthy when its a Pens player that does the hurtin.  Otherwise its just a hockey play.  Yeah right. 

 

Ristolainen got a major, a misconduct and three games for a hit on a Pen on a regular hockey play. (There's a thread on that)

 

Crosby didn't even get a penalty...

[pilldoc]

@nossagog

 

You are right.  I am a bit biased when it comes to flagrant fouls and the Pens.  We are bitter rivals and we will ways look at each with a bit of skepticism.  I have absolutely no problem enforcing the rules as they are.  If ANY player breaks those rules there should be a consequence regardless of the crest you wear on the front of your jersey or the name on the back of it.

 

I think the perceived notion is yup...injuries happen and hockey players make stupid plays all the time.  If Gudas leaves his feet and knocks a player into dream world, I expect him to get suspended.  However, when a very similar play occurs when a Pens player does it to Player X AND there is no discipline, that is were fans in general (not just Flyer fans) get upset.  Why is it ok, using the above example above, for Johnson to get a 2 game suspension, but in this case when Crosby does the exact same thing, there is not even a slap on the wrist from the league office?

 

It makes it appear to be a double standard and that is what aggravates non-Pens fans.  Look most of us on here all friends.   We may disagree here and there and things get heated every now and then, but we are all educated and knowledgeable hockey fans and we can all agree in the particular incident the league made a bad decision.

 

However, we all run into passionate non-educated fans and argue tooth and nail about what happened the other night. both sides claiming they are right.

 

All I ask is for consistency from the league office when making these rulings regardless whose name it is and what jersey they are wearing.  Because the league has been so very INCONSISTENT with these types of rulings, it makes it appear that there is a biased or favoritism towards a certain player or team.

 

But yes...for now..you are right, there will appear an unfair backlash towards the Pens and their fans simply because the league has not always gotten it right when it comes to levying fines and suspensions to players.

 

For the time being there does appear to be be a double standard.

[nossagog]

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Ristolainen got a major, a misconduct and three games for a hit on a Pen on a regular hockey play. (There's a thread on that)

 

Crosby didn't even get a penalty...

Yeah, you're right. He didn't get a penalty.   And the ref's NEVER miss penalties in the NHL.  

 

But let's look. Just in the last two months.

Shutlz had a concussion from a hit from behind, no penalty, no suspension, missed around 4 games. Where's the thread on that. 

Hagelin had a concussion from a late hit. No Penalty, no suspension. missed 3 games I believe.  Where's the thread on that. 

Maatta has a broken hand from a late hit accross the hands(wait, its not late if you don't even have the puck, but that's something else we'll have to ignore). He's still out. No penalty, no suspension. Where's the thread on that. 

Hornqvist missed about 4 games due to a concussion from a cross check to the head.  Wait for it. No Penalty, no suspension.  Where's the thread on that. 

Guentzel is out for how long, we don't know, from an illegal hit, NOT a regular play.  But the outrage about the hit is that the perp got suspended., not about the hit. GO FIGURE!

 

Are they angels, OF COURSE NOT.  But the same liberties are taken against us(well if I look at just injuries to and from, we are really on the short end of this), but we figure it's just not worth the time and effort to get upset about missed calls.

[hf101]

30 minutes ago, nossagog said:

Hey, I'll agree he should have been penalized for that, it's a slash by the book.    But come on guys, how many times do you see that every game.  Sure, Crosby bashed his fingers, should have got a penalty.  But its a fluke that it broke his fingers.  If the NHL suspends him for something everyone does, but in this case has a bad result, we've got a problem. 

 

But it's weird that you guys put up threads every time a Pens player does something.   I know you hate them. But you guys make it sound like we're the only team that does anything remotely wrong.  Have you seen how many players the Pens have out of the lineup throughout this season? Some times for weeks. And many of they due to illegal plays.  Out of all of them, the only one that caused an issues with the league was the one that sent Guentzel to LaLa land and probably out for the season.  And people whined about the suspension for that.    If Uncle Gary were protecting the Pens, he's not doing his job.   

 

Do hockey players make  bad plays that injure other players, yep all the time.  But it seems to only be thread worthy when its a Pens player that does the hurtin.  Otherwise its just a hockey play.  Yeah right. 

 

 

 

 

That is really the key @nossagog - it's a slash the refs should make the correct call on the ice. And they miss a few, ok, but then the league could at least send Crosby a message with at least a fine.  --- but nope.

 

The League sent Johnson a message with a 2 handed intent to injure slash and a 2 game suspension.  It's difficult to say whether Crosby's slash was 2 handed or not, but to cause that kind of damage I probably have to think that it was 2 handed. Again the league can send Crosby a message with at least a fine.  Especially a few days after the non call on the nut shot on O'Reilly too.

 

A few months ago Malkin get's a no-suspension call with this interference call and a high hit to Wheeler's head.

 

Wheeler was injured.

 

Yet... Ristoleinen gets 3 games for a first offense with an interference check.  A check that in no way can be interpreted to be intended to be a head shot.  Could Malkin have avoided that hit.   Absolutely.    IMO, this is no different than Ristoleinen could have avoided the hip check on Guentzel.  In the DOPS video is says that     Guentzel isn't eligible to be checked and yet this is No different than Wheeler wasn't able to be checked.  Yet here again we see the league making different calls for the same said offenses.

 

All I want is some kind of consistency from the League, DOPS, and the referees for every team, for every player within a reasonable level for human error.

[pilldoc]

9 minutes ago, hf101 said:

All I want is some kind of consistency from the League, DOPS, and the referees for every team, for every player within a reasonable level for human error.

 

That's all I want too ....... (see my post above)

[nossagog]

14 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

That is really the key @nossagog - it's a slash the refs should make the correct call on the ice. And they miss a few, ok, but then the league could at least send Crosby a message with at least a fine.  --- but nope.

 

The League sent Johnson a message with a 2 handed intent to injure slash and a 2 game suspension.  It's difficult to say whether Crosby's slash was 2 handed or not, but to cause that kind of damage I probably have to think that it was 2 handed. Again the league can send Crosby a message with at least a fine.  Especially a few days after the non call on the nut shot on O'Reilly too.

 

A few months ago Malkin get's a no-suspension call with this interference call and a high hit to Wheeler's head.

 

Wheeler was injured.

 

Yet... Ristoleinen gets 3 games for a first offense with an interference check.  A check that in no way can be interpreted to be intended to be a head shot.  Could Malkin have avoided that hit.   Absolutely.    IMO, this is no different than Ristoleinen could have avoided the hip check on Guentzel.  In the DOPS video is says that     Guentzel isn't eligible to be checked and yet this is No different than Wheeler wasn't able to be checked.  Yet here again we see the league making different calls for the same said offenses.

 

All I want is some kind of consistency from the League, DOPS, and the referees for every team, for every player within a reasonable level for human error.

The Malkin thing is a bad example. REALLY a bad example.

Wheller was not injured, he finished the game, and hasn't missed a game since(Maybe he missed a shift).  Hey, but that's the game that Shultz got the hit from behind and was concussed. AND Maatta got his late hit that broke his hand.  

 

What do we complain about?  The hit that had a guy miss maybe one shift. Not the ones that took out a defenseman for  four games and another that has one out for eighteen games and counting. 

[radoran]

47 minutes ago, nossagog said:

Yeah, you're right. He didn't get a penalty.   And the ref's NEVER miss penalties in the NHL.  

 

But let's look. Just in the last two months.

Shutlz had a concussion from a hit from behind, no penalty, no suspension, missed around 4 games. Where's the thread on that. 

Hagelin had a concussion from a late hit. No Penalty, no suspension. missed 3 games I believe.  Where's the thread on that. 

Maatta has a broken hand from a late hit accross the hands(wait, its not late if you don't even have the puck, but that's something else we'll have to ignore). He's still out. No penalty, no suspension. Where's the thread on that. 

Hornqvist missed about 4 games due to a concussion from a cross check to the head.  Wait for it. No Penalty, no suspension.  Where's the thread on that. 

Guentzel is out for how long, we don't know, from an illegal hit, NOT a regular play.  But the outrage about the hit is that the perp got suspended., not about the hit. GO FIGURE!

 

Are they angels, OF COURSE NOT.  But the same liberties are taken against us(well if I look at just injuries to and from, we are really on the short end of this), but we figure it's just not worth the time and effort to get upset about missed calls.

 

Read the post you wrote that I was responding to and then your response to mine.

 

Your position seems to change just a little, no?

 

Crosby deserved a penalty that wasn't called. He injured a player and wasn't even fined.

 

Ristolainen has no history and was undoubtedly making a hockey play and got 5, 10 and 3 games.

 

And that's a subject of a thread on the site.

 

Do NHL refs miss things? Sure.

 

Should Crosby skate with nothing?

 

I don't think anyone not wearing black and gold - or in the NHL offices - would agree.

 

And if someone took Crosby's finger off without even a penalty I don't think you would be of the "refs miss stuff all the time" opinion.

 

Carry on.

[hf101]

1 minute ago, nossagog said:

The Malkin thing is a bad example. REALLY a bad example.

Wheller was not injured, he finished the game, and hasn't missed a game since(Maybe he missed a shift).  Hey, but that's the game that Shultz got the hit from behind and was concussed. AND Maatta got his late hit that broke his hands.  

 

What do we complain about?  The hit that had a guy miss maybe one shift. Not the ones that took out a defenseman for  games and another that has one out for eighteen games and counting. 

1

 

I can't find a video on the Steen hit on Hagelin, nor the one on Maata broke his hand.  Was just watching the hit on Shultz by Big Buff.  Big Buff is a big guy.  Should he be suspended here?  I dunno, mabye... Shultz had the puck, it wasn't a charge.  I'm not seeing this as an illegal hit either as Buff is finishing his check imo, could he have let up -- yep.  Did Schultz turn into the boards ... Yep.  I'd be ok with a game suspension, but not much more.  There is no intent to injure, imo

 

I'd be ok with a game suspension on Ristoleinen, but not 3 games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nossagog]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

Read the post you wrote that I was responding to and then your response to mine.

 

Your position seems to change just a little, no?

 

Crosby deserved a penalty that wasn't called. He injured a player and wasn't even fined.

 

Ristolainen has no history and was undoubtedly making a hockey play and got 5, 10 and 3 games.

 

And that's a subject of a thread on the site.

 

Do NHL refs miss things? Sure.

 

Should Crosby skate with nothing?

 

I don't think anyone not wearing black and gold - or in the NHL offices - would agree.

 

And if someone took Crosby's finger off without even a penalty I don't think you would be of the "refs miss stuff all the time" opinion.

 

Carry on.

I don't think I changed my position, or was not trying to.  I admitted that he deserved a penalty, that's clear.  What I was trying to point out was the fact that plenty of Penguins have been injured due to illegal hits, and only one of them was there a suspension.   Should all the other's get away with nothing? 

 

 

[nossagog]

21 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

I can't find a video on the Steen hit on Hagelin, nor the one on Maata broke his hand.  Was just watching the hit on Shultz by Big Buff.  Big Buff is a big guy.  Should he be suspended here?  I dunno, mabye... Shultz had the puck, it wasn't a charge.  I'm not seeing this as an illegal hit either as Buff is finishing his check imo, could he have let up -- yep.  Did Schultz turn into the boards ... Yep.  I'd be ok with a game suspension, but not much more.  There is no intent to injure, imo

 

I'd be ok with a game suspension on Ristoleinen, but not 3 games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My problem with the Buff hit was that he put his weight high and forward, coming up on the hit and putting his hands and weiight up on Shult'z back driving the head and upper body straight into the boards directly from behind.     Did it deserve a suspension, I don't think so. But it was reckless and should have been a penalty for boarding.  And if we're going to suspend based on result and not on intent, then . . . 

[AJgoal]

28 minutes ago, nossagog said:

My problem with the Buff hit was that he put his weight high and forward, coming up on the hit and putting his hands and weiight up on Shult'z back driving the head and upper body straight into the boards directly from behind.     Did it deserve a suspension, I don't think so. But it was reckless and should have been a penalty for boarding.  And if we're going to suspend based on result and not on intent, then . . . 

 

I see impact on the glass. The two are specifically not synonymous in the rulebook. Boarding requires violent impact with the boards, hence it is not a boarding penalty.

[hf101]

35 minutes ago, nossagog said:

My problem with the Buff hit was that he put his weight high and forward, coming up on the hit and putting his hands and weiight up on Shult'z back driving the head and upper body straight into the boards directly from behind.

 

 

I totally get this, it's a bit extra on the force but it isn't an illegal play.

[MadDevil]

When, in the history of the NHL, have they ever been truly consistent calling penalties?

[flyerrod]

@nossagog Yes the refs miss calls all the time. The problem is in today's day and age, we have video proof of said infractions. When these are reviewed after the fact by the NHL DOPS, the correct calls SHOULD be made. I think that any player who pitchforks someone in the "beans" should be suspended. I think players that cause an injury with a cheap shot IE slash, should be penalized monetarily if nothing else. When you have proof of such occurrences, even a pens fan should have a bitter pill to swallow trying to justify such cowardly acts performed by their star players. As a hockey fan, unless these acts are performed against players named Rinaldo/Cook/Torres/Lucic or any player of their ilk, you should be ashamed of trying to justify it. This is not meant as a personal attack on you noss, please don't take it that way.

[flyercanuck]

Crosby shouldn't be suspended. It was a slash. What he should have been was penalized...same when he went after yet another mans crotch. That's the issue I have with the guy (and Malkin who's even dirtier) is that they do crap like this with impunity. There's NO way an official didn't see either of these plays. NO WAY.

 

 Rule 61 – Slashing
61.1 Slashing - Slashing is the act of a player swinging his stick at an
opponent, whether contact is made or not. Non-aggressive stick
contact to the pant or front of the shin pads, should not be penalized
as slashing. Any forceful or powerful chop with the stick on an
opponent’s body, the opponent’s stick, or on or near the opponent’s
hands that, in the judgment of the Referee, is not an attempt to play
the puck, shall be penalized as slashing.
61.2 Minor Penalty - A minor penalty, at the discretion of the Referee
based on the severity of the contact, shall be imposed on a player
who slashes an opponent.
61.3 Major Penalty - A major penalty, at the discretion of the Referee
based on the severity of the contact, shall be imposed on a player
who slashes an opponent. When injury occurs, a major penalty must
be assessed under this rule (see 61.5).
61.4 Match Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match
penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately
injured his opponent by slashing. 
61.5 Game Misconduct Penalty – Whenever a major penalty is assessed
for slashing, a game misconduct penalty must also be imposed.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

 

[nossagog]

5 hours ago, flyerrod said:

@nossagog Yes the refs miss calls all the time. The problem is in today's day and age, we have video proof of said infractions. When these are reviewed after the fact by the NHL DOPS, the correct calls SHOULD be made. I think that any player who pitchforks someone in the "beans" should be suspended. I think players that cause an injury with a cheap shot IE slash, should be penalized monetarily if nothing else. When you have proof of such occurrences, even a pens fan should have a bitter pill to swallow trying to justify such cowardly acts performed by their star players. As a hockey fan, unless these acts are performed against players named Rinaldo/Cook/Torres/Lucic or any player of their ilk, you should be ashamed of trying to justify it. This is not meant as a personal attack on you noss, please don't take it that way.

I agree with you whole hearted.  And there is no place on these boards that you will hear me "justifying" his actions for either the slash or the cup check.  They should have been penalized. There is NO argument there.  Where I go off the rails is when people make it sound like he's the only person in the NHL whom does this and gets away with it, or the Pens in general.  

 

That slash happens in all games, it just doesn't usually cause injury.  How many slashes did it take for Johnny Hockey to get his finger broken in the Wild game this season.   I don't remember outrage here about it. THAT's what bugs me. 

 

But I watch all the Pens games, and for the last three years we've dealt with injury after injury on players for long terms sometimes.  And some of these injuries are from questionable if not down right dirty hits.   And apparently we deserve all of those injuries because we've built up so much karma from our own illegal hits.    Is karma circular?

 

And don't worry, I don't take it personally.  I'm not even upset about all the backlash.  After a while, you just get used to it. 

 

 

[nossagog]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Watch a few Pens games against the Jackets, Jets, Senators, Bruins . . .   This happens all the time, at least Smith didn't use the cross check to the head that other teams do. 

[pilldoc]

7 minutes ago, nossagog said:

 Where I go off the rails is when people make it sound like he's the only person in the NHL whom does this and gets away with it, or the Pens in general.

 

you are right he is not the only player to get a way with it nor are the Pens the only team...but he IS a superstar and he IS the face of the Pens.  So yeah there will be more, either rightly or wrongly,  media attention and backlash simply because of those facts. 

 

17 minutes ago, nossagog said:

   And apparently we deserve all of those injuries because we've built up so much karma from our own illegal hits.    Is karma circular?

 

Welcome to developing a reputation.....the Flyers still carry the "Broadstreet Bullies" reputation from years ago even though that era of hockey is long ago and far away .....

 

Again either rightly or wrongly I believe other teams with take more liberties with the pens ..... 

 

26 minutes ago, nossagog said:

And don't worry, I don't take it personally.  I'm not even upset about all the backlash.  After a while, you just get used to it.

 

I know you don't take it personally.  you are a great poster here.