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Game 6: Panthers at Flyers, October 17, 2017, 7:00 PM EDT

brelic

By brelic
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elmatus Contributor

elmatus

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26 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I get what you're saying, but we also can't forget that if you take him out, we basically have some really green players down the middle. Patrick, Laughton, and who else? Rubtsov? Vorobyev? 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'd say that list about sums it up for the time being. It's also a pretty decent one from where I'm sitting.

 

Look, I don't think Fil should be traded away for peanuts. Given he has a NTC, the only likely trade spots are contending teams. Thankfully, contending teams often provide a great opportunity for overpayment. I do like him, but he's 33. He's been a good NHLer for a long time. That's worth something to contending teams. It's worth a lot less to rebuilding ones -- which is exactly what PHI is, despite Hex's musings to the contrary.

 

Also, I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves quite a bit here. Fil has three goals this year on nine shots. It's not like he's going to sport a 33% shooting percentage all season. Also, two of those are on the pp, where he benefits from the GVG trio in much the same way Schenn did.

 

I think the better questions to ask would be: What kind of return could Fil fetch from a contender at the deadline? -and- What would be needed for Hex to consider moving him?

 

And, sure, at some point it's probably better to try and keep him. What would be a good term or dollar amount for a guy who will be 34 next year?

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brelic Newbie

brelic

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13 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Yeah, I'd say that list about sums it up for the time being. It's also a pretty decent one from where I'm sitting.

 

Look, I don't think Fil should be traded away for peanuts. Given he has a NTC, the only likely trade spots are contending teams. Thankfully, contending teams often provide a great opportunity for overpayment. I do like him, but he's 33. He's been a good NHLer for a long time. That's worth something to contending teams. It's worth a lot less to rebuilding ones -- which is exactly what PHI is, despite Hex's musings to the contrary.

 

Also, I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves quite a bit here. Fil has three goals this year on nine shots. It's not like he's going to sport a 33% shooting percentage all season. Also, two of those are on the pp, where he benefits from the GVG trio in much the same way Schenn did.

 

I think the better questions to ask would be: What kind of return could Fil fetch from a contender at the deadline? -and- What would be needed for Hex to consider moving him?

 

And, sure, at some point it's probably better to try and keep him. What would be a good term or dollar amount for a guy who will be 34 next year?

 

I guess we have Lehtera for one more year at $300k cheaper, so there's that. He could be the replacement for next season if we need experience at center. 

 

I'm guessing if Filppula has a 50 point pace (which is a stretch based on his past few years), you'd get a 1st rounder for sure. I'm thinking he'll be closer to the 40 point pace, and you'd get a 2nd rounder for sure.  If we were to get a roster player for him, I'm guessing it would be a middle to bottom six guy, of which we have plenty.

 

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Podein25 Proficient

Podein25

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Manning is not nearly as bad as people are saying. He's got 1 point and is +2 in 2 GP. He's worked hard to get to and stay in the NHL. He's a tough SOB who can play in the NHL. When did Flyer fans come to despise a tough SOB like that?!

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elmatus Contributor

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24 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I guess we have Lehtera for one more year at $300k cheaper, so there's that. He could be the replacement for next season if we need experience at center. 

 

I'm guessing if Filppula has a 50 point pace (which is a stretch based on his past few years), you'd get a 1st rounder for sure. I'm thinking he'll be closer to the 40 point pace, and you'd get a 2nd rounder for sure.  If we were to get a roster player for him, I'm guessing it would be a middle to bottom six guy, of which we have plenty.

 

 

Would Hex resign him at the end of the season? If he has a decent year, he'll be looking for probably 3-4 million per season for however long he can get. Let's say Hex gets him for 3.5 million for three years. Filppula may be a 40 pt player this year. He may provide some amount of experience in a top six role this year.

 

Now let's say next year works the way we might expect: Patrick gets stronger and starts to fill the 2C role. Fil is tried at the wing a bit, and it kind of works, but younger and more talented options make him fairly replaceable in that role (Weal, TK). He eventually settles as a 3C making 3.5 million and gets 25ish pts skating with less talented players.

 

19-20 comes around, and he's still making 3.5 million. The difference now is that Vorobyev and Rubstov are at a point where they should be getting NHL experience. Fil has two years left at 3.5 million and only had 25 pts last year, so trading him without retaining salary is unlikely. No sense retaining salary for a guy on the way out, so we keep him. He spends the season floating around the bottom six and gets maybe 15 pts. Vorobyev and Rubstov are left in the AHL for another season, despite the fact they likely would be better served at the NHL level at this point in their development.

 

20-21 starts up, and Fil is still making 3.5 million. He's the new Matt Read and is essentially not tradeable for anything worthwhile. Vorobyev and Rubstov can't be held down anymore. They make the team, and Fil spends 25 games that season in the press box.

 

Option two: Trade him this year while he has value. Find veteran leadership elsewhere for the kids coming up. Isn't that McDud's job anyway? :D

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brelic Newbie

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26 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Would Hex resign him at the end of the season? If he has a decent year, he'll be looking for probably 3-4 million per season for however long he can get. Let's say Hex gets him for 3.5 million for three years. Filppula may be a 40 pt player this year. He may provide some amount of experience in a top six role this year.

 

Now let's say next year works the way we might expect: Patrick gets stronger and starts to fill the 2C role. Fil is tried at the wing a bit, and it kind of works, but younger and more talented options make him fairly replaceable in that role (Weal, TK). He eventually settles as a 3C making 3.5 million and gets 25ish pts skating with less talented players.

 

19-20 comes around, and he's still making 3.5 million. The difference now is that Vorobyev and Rubstov are at a point where they should be getting NHL experience. Fil has two years left at 3.5 million and only had 25 pts last year, so trading him without retaining salary is unlikely. No sense retaining salary for a guy on the way out, so we keep him. He spends the season floating around the bottom six and gets maybe 15 pts. Vorobyev and Rubstov are left in the AHL for another season, despite the fact they likely would be better served at the NHL level at this point in their development.

 

20-21 starts up, and Fil is still making 3.5 million. He's the new Matt Read and is essentially not tradeable for anything worthwhile. Vorobyev and Rubstov can't be held down anymore. They make the team, and Fil spends 25 games that season in the press box.

 

Option two: Trade him this year while he has value. Find veteran leadership elsewhere for the kids coming up. Isn't that McDud's job anyway? :D

 

Lol, totally agree. I would not resign him for 3 years. If he seems to really gel with the team, I'd give him one year, max. Otherwise, see ya.

 

 

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Howie58 Mentor

Howie58

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I always fear we play down to the Panthers.  And strangely, we seem to play better against them in Florida than at home:

 

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/opponent.cgi?Florida_Panthers

 

This is one of those games we should win.  I think the Panthers are going through a sorting out. Two years ago I saw them as Stanley Cup contenders in the next 3-5 years. Now I wonder if they are reverting to their usual selves. 

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OccamsRazor Grand Master

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32 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I always fear we play down to the Panthers.  And strangely, we seem to play better against them in Florida than at home:

 

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/opponent.cgi?Florida_Panthers

 

This is one of those games we should win.  I think the Panthers are going through a sorting out. Two years ago I saw them as Stanley Cup contenders in the next 3-5 years. Now I wonder if they are reverting to their usual selves. 

 

New slate Howie.

 

I know it's hard but give it a go. Nothing else to lose.

 

This team is playing much better than last year's team.

 

They have a 4th line now too.

 

#fingerscrossed

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King Knut Newbie

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2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

At least in the early going, it seems that the problem with him at second line center might have been somewhat related the guys on the wings?

 

But for me, the most important thing for Couturier is staying healthy.

 

It's the system. 

 

The defense is better even if the goalies aren't, so all the forwards aren't as required to linger back and can actually enter the zone and do some creative things there for a change instead of dumping it in and hoping for a pass back to the point because everyone's scared to get caught inside the blue line because the DEFENSE couldn't handle anything going the other way.  

 

Now of course, having these two on his wings is certainly a boon, but of the three, Couts was the best even strength forward last year (outscored by Jake, but Jake was also outscored against as well).  Why on earth wouldn't they all do better together?  

 

I get it.  Coots isn't pretty... and I don't just mean the teeth.  He looks clumsy and awkward out there.  He's not a smooth skating thing of beauty.  But he's good.  Some people would rather be lucky than good, but I'd rather be good than pretty. 

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elmatus Contributor

elmatus

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Lol, totally agree. I would not resign him for 3 years. If he seems to really gel with the team, I'd give him one year, max. Otherwise, see ya.

 

 

 

One year wouldn't be a bad signing. If he gets 40 pts this year though, someone will offer him a contract like the one I proposed above. I'd rather that someone wasn't Hextall myself.

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mojo1917 Veteran

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4 hours ago, Podein25 said:

Manning is not nearly as bad as people are saying. He's got 1 point and is +2 in 2 GP. He's worked hard to get to and stay in the NHL. He's a tough SOB who can play in the NHL. When did Flyer fans come to despise a tough SOB like that?!

when they watch Sanheim skate and dangle like a big Kris Letang (without the beautiful hair) and then watch Manning plod along and get beat up when he takes on guys with 25 lbs on him.

 

I don' mind Manning at all, he's, like you said, a hard worker and fearless. 

Fickle this fanbase is. mmm?

 

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King Knut Newbie

King Knut

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16 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

when they watch Sanheim skate and dangle like a big Kris Letang (without the beautiful hair) and then watch Manning plod along and get beat up when he takes on guys with 25 lbs on him.

 

I don' mind Manning at all, he's, like you said, a hard worker and fearless. 

Fickle this fanbase is. mmm?

 

 

Manning's a good player!  Nothing's wrong with him.

 

We want Sanheim and Morin in the lineup for the future.  They WILL be better players if they aren't already and playing them gets us there faster.  

 

Manning's a great middle to bottom pairing guy.  Absolutely no problems with him if we didn't have the future twiddling their thumbs.  
 

It will b e a good deadline deal... that I'm not sure we need.  

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vis Contributor

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6 hours ago, brelic said:

 

So, let's say Sanheim ends up playing 35-45 games. You know, that's entirely consistent with a bunch of other d-men when they have their first 'season' in the NHL. It's rare the rookies that make the roster, and that's it - 82 games baby. Provorov was an exception, and rightly so. He is light years ahead of Sanheim in his maturity level and how he sees the game. He is strategic. Sanheim is still learning the ropes. 

 

Yeah, it's frustrating because we all want the rookies to play. But it's not crazy to have a rookie defenseman play 40 games or so... maybe the flip side is that he should also be in the AHL the rest of the time. I don't know, hard to say.

 

 

I'm not going to be happy if he's in the press box for all of those games.   If he's not playing in the NHL, he should be playing in the AHL.  

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OccamsRazor Grand Master

OccamsRazor

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Man Hagg is just a really sound, subtle defenseman.

 

He is just a great two way guy from everything i have seen.

 

He is cementing himself into the lineup like Ivan has done all he has to do is continue playing like he is.

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