Where are the Fire Hakstol chants now?

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

18 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

Hakstol has a lot longer leash than many on here think.  His team just keeps taking steps forward and thats what you want for a long term franchise coach.

 

Hakstol had 8 forwards and two defensemen that saved his season for him. They aren't moving forward from his 'great' coaching. They're moving forward because 10 players carried this club obj their backs and practically willed their way into the playoffs. 

 

I understand there are some things Beet ****** has no control over. Goaltending is one of them. However his history certainly doesn't help when you consider he's run goaltenders into the ground. It certainly doesn't help that he advocated for re-signing Neuvirth, a frail and brittle goalie. However, his usage of players (sitting Gostisbehere the last five minutes of every game), his over-reliance on guys like Filppula, MacDonald, Lehtera, Manning, etc....have hurt. As well, him not allowing guys like Provorov, Gostisbehere and Sanheim lead rushes (even though that's something they do incredibly well), has handcuffed them in reaching full potential. Don't forget about his complete misuse of Konecny as well. Finally, he had a chance to replace Murphy and Laperriere with real coaches and failed to do so. That's on him. All of that is on him. 

 

So yay the Flyers made the playoffs. But let's not pretend Hak played a big role in that. He did more to hinder this club than help it win. Under his watch, in one calendar year, this club had two 10 game winless streaks. Under his watch, it took until the last game of the season to secure a playoff spot, even though 2 weeks before, they were sitting pretty in the standings. What Hakstol has gotten away with is astounding. If this were any other franchise, he would have been fired. 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

He does, but I'm not sure he merits it. He's been outcoached quite a bit over these past seasons. There's a learning curve obviously, but he will need to start showing that he is learning and getting better very soon. Otherwise, he's taking up space and holding the team back. No offence to the guy, but no one wants that on a team that should be getting remarkably better over the next couple years.

 

 

Playoffs two of the three years he has been here makes me think he gets the length of his whole contract.

[elmatus]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Playoffs two of the three years he has been here makes me think he gets the length of his whole contract.

 

He very well might, but I don't think he's done enough to deserve it so far. @BobbyClarkeFan16 is right when he says the team has essentially won this year despite their coach making very questionable in game choices.

 

I still contend this team should be better than their record suggests. How much of that is on questionable coaching decisions vs the goalie carrousel or the lack of defensive depth is obviously hard to say. No doubt it's a combination of those things plus others; however, I do believe other teams have won with less.

 

That said, maybe a seven game series with all the planning that goes into it will prove to be more his thing. Who knows? I certainly hope so, because we're going to need him to show he can hang with the big boys if we want to have a chance. So far, he hasn't shown that level of ability imo.

 

Prove me wrong, Haks. Make me a fan.

[Pucked in the head]

Allain vigneault? ( Not sure how to spell it) is available.....  Any thoughts on that???

[OccamsRazor]

49 minutes ago, Pucked in the head said:

Allain vigneault? ( Not sure how to spell it) is available.....  Any thoughts on that???

 

 

HELL TO THE NAH!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, Pucked in the head said:

Allain vigneault? ( Not sure how to spell it) is available.....  Any thoughts on that???

Big fat crunchy no

[Pucked in the head]

Nuff said I guess huh? He did take two teams to the cup finals, but he seems to be good at the start (sounds like someone we all love to hate, Leaky Pete) and then sharts in the end,in mrazek case it's sharts his drawers!!!

[brelic]

From the end of the losing streak to the end of the season, the Flyers went 34-15-7. That was 5th best in the NHL. Only Vegas, Winnipeg, Nashville, and Boston had more points. 

 

That's a stunning turnaround. 

 

I'd say the season is a success on many levels regardless of what happens in the playoffs. Hakstol has definitely earned another year with this team. 

 

 

[murraycraven]

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

I'd say the season is a success on many levels regardless of what happens in the playoffs. Hakstol has definitely earned another year with this team. 

 

 

I mentioned this in another post.   

 

Admittedly, I am not a fan of Hak and think he s outmatched most nights but you can't ignore the positives.   He definitely deserves a shot next year and we see where it goes.   He deserves it...

[Digityman]

At the beginning of the season the general consensus was they were a bubble team at best based on the roster.  And they ended up being a couple points better than that.  The team is almost exactly where they should be right now.   Regardless of the success in the playoffs he will be back. 

 

Now, this summer Hextall needs to prove himself again and make this roster better.  It's time for a trade (Simmonds +) to get in the top 5 of the draft or get a shoot-first top 6 winger.  Then buy out or bury some contracts and pray there are 2-3 NHL ready guys by the start of next season (Forst, Vorb, Vech..)

 

All that combined with another year of experience should get them another 5 points in the standings and into the 2nd or 3rd round in the PO next year. 

 

At least that's how it works in my head.

[elmatus]

44 minutes ago, Digityman said:

At the beginning of the season the general consensus was they were a bubble team at best based on the roster.  And they ended up being a couple points better than that.  The team is almost exactly where they should be right now.   Regardless of the success in the playoffs he will be back. 

 

 

You're not wrong. That said, the bubble team projection was largely assuming Giroux and Voracek would linger around the 60 range again, Ghost would prove to be a middling defenseman, and Patrick or TK would pick up the slack to make the difference. Instead, Patrick and TK have picked up, Giroux has become a scoring menace, and Voracek has regained some level of consistency (for who knows what reasons).

 

Don't get me wrong, Hak should and will get another year at least. That said, I still contend he was out coached a good bit this season. I think with a more apt coach, we wouldn't be a bubble team at all given the things mentioned above. This has been noted before, but it often seems like the team wins despite their coach rather than because of him.

 

We only get to see what happens in game though. A rather substantial amount of the job involves everything else we simply don't see. Given that, it's always difficult to gauge the impact of a coach vs simply player talent. 

 

Look at Bylsma. He looked like a million bucks in Pittsburgh, and now not so much. Great players will compensate for bad coaching a lot of the time. That may very well be exactly what happened to us this year.

 

So the path that led here isn't what most of us expected, but the end result is about the same. His role in this relative success is something we'll never know.

[Podein25]

16 hours ago, elmatus said:

the bubble team projection was largely assuming Giroux and Voracek would linger around the 60 range again, Ghost would prove to be a middling defenseman, and Patrick or TK would pick up the slack to make the difference.

 

I dunno, I think you're rewriting history a bit here.

 

We were a bubble team first and foremost because we had numerous question marks at numerous positions: goal, D (young plus McDud and Manning as regulars), forward (lack of depth, lack of high end skill, skill that we had was young), a College coach still finding his big league legs. 

 

There were/are tons of reasons for the Flyers to be considered a marginal playoff team at best.

[elmatus]

13 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I dunno, I think you're rewriting history a bit here.

 

We were a bubble team first and foremost because we had numerous question marks at numerous positions: goal, D (young plus McDud and Manning as regulars), forward (lack of depth, lack of high end skill, skill that we had was young), a College coach still finding his big league legs. 

 

There were/are tons of reasons for the Flyers to be considered a marginal playoff team at best.

 

Hmm... maybe that was my assessment then. I know personally, I didn't expect a 102 season from Giroux or even a 85 one from Voracek. I never thought Couts would flirt with 75 pts either, though I did expect him to pick up a little bit from previous years. I also figured Ghost would find some middle ground between his rookie season and last season, and I figured he would turn out to be a defensive liability much of the time. Instead Ghost has had a fantastic season on both sides of the puck and has in fact turned out to be one of the best dmen of the league this year. None of that was in my projection when I said this was a bubble team.

 

I still figured they'd be a bubble team. Mostly that's because I figured TK would take a step forward -- though he's exceeded my expectations as well -- and I figured Patrick would have a year much like the one he's had. I also figured Provo would take another step forward. I expected the goaltending to be shotty (it has been), and I figured all that combined with ~60 pt seasons from G and V would make them a bubble team at best.

 

Maybe that was just me... but I have a feeling it wasn't. I don't think anyone saw a Giroux resurgence coming to the tune of 102 pts. Most of us have been crapping on Voracek for the past three years, so I don't think anyone really figured he'd have a great season too. Let's not talk about what folks thought of Couts prior to this season.

 

I don't think my original assessment was atypical at all really. I expect it was fairly common.

 

I posted somewhere else on the forum a player stats comparison between PHI, NJ, and TB. It paints a picture that pegs us very near TB in many ways, and much much better than NJ. Yet in actuality, TB's record is much better than ours, while NJ is right with us. My point is we have had tremendous seasons from more players than many other teams with better records.

 

So what makes up the difference? Well, our goaltending has been awful, and I do think Hakstol has been out coached many times this season. Are those the only reasons? Probably not. But I do think they are both legit reasons. By and large, a large portion of this team has defied my expectations considerably. It follows that my original prediction of a bubble team should probably have been wiped too, but it wasn't really...

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Hmm... maybe that was my assessment then. I know personally, I didn't expect a 102 season from Giroux or even a 85 one from Voracek. I never thought Couts would flirt with 75 pts either, though I did expect him to pick up a little bit from previous years. I also figured Ghost would find some middle ground between his rookie season and last season, and I figured he would turn out to be a defensive liability much of the time. Instead Ghost has had a fantastic season on both sides of the puck and has in fact turned out to be one of the best dmen of the league this year. None of that was in my projection when I said this was a bubble team.

 

I still figured they'd be a bubble team. Mostly that's because I figured TK would take a step forward -- though he's exceeded my expectations as well -- and I figured Patrick would have a year much like the one he's had. I also figured Provo would take another step forward. I expected the goaltending to be shotty (it has been), and I figured all that combined with ~60 pt seasons from G and V would make them a bubble team at best.

 

Maybe that was just me... but I have a feeling it wasn't. I don't think anyone saw a Giroux resurgence coming to the turn of 102 pts. Most of us have been crappy on Voracek for the past three years, so I don't think anyone really figured he'd have a great season too. Let's not talk about what folks thought of Couts prior to this season.

 

I don't think my original assessment was atypical at all really. I expect it was fairly common.

 

I posted somewhere else on the forum a player stats comparison between PHI, NJ, and TB. It paints a picture that pegs us very near TB in many ways, and much much better than NJ. Yet in actuality, TB's record is much better than ours, while NJ is right with us. My point is we have had tremendous seasons from more players than many other teams with better records.

 

So what makes up the difference? Well, our goaltending has been awful, and I do think Hakstol has been out coached many times this season. Are those the only reasons? Probably not. But I do think they are both legit reasons. By and large, a large portion of this team has defied my expectations considerably. It follows that my original prediction of a bubble team should probably have been wiped too, but it wasn't really...

 

They have certainly exceeded expectations.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I didn't expect a 102 season from Giroux

 

 

I'm sure no one did and if they say they did they would be lying.

[hf101]

I'm not at all surprised by these comments by Hakstol on wasted, misdirected emotion.

 

From the Athletic: 

https://theathletic.com/330943/2018/04/27/hextall-defends-his-process-at-exit-interviews-while-hinting-at-a-new-path-this-offseason-for-flyers/

Quote

Hakstol provided an interesting explanation regarding his lack of emotion shown on the bench, which is often criticized by fans. “I’ll tell you this, I felt like when I came here 3 years ago just by listening and watching some things, I felt like on our bench and part of our team there was wasted emotion, some misdirected emotion. That was one thing we needed to work at correcting early on, so I’m pretty guarded by nature, I don’t want the TV cameras on me and everything else. I’m not there to put on a show. I felt like we had to reel in some of the wasted emotion.” He did acknowledge that part of the stoic face that he shows to the public is just a result of his personality, but the idea that keeping a wrap on his emotions was an intentional decision meant to keep his players from losing control on the ice is new.

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