2018 Minnesota Wild Draft Discussion .......

[IllaZilla]

37 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

A complete summary of Day 2 of the 2018 NHL draft, player by player

 

I wrote a profile for each guy we selected today.  A few ok projects, but a few strange selections too.  Enjoy.  

 

I'm not as big of a draft wonk as you are, but are there players around the picks that the Wild had that did not have skating issues? It seems time and time again that these players that have skating issues never make it above the AHL, and the Wild seems to be drawn to  them with the thinking that they can "fix" the skating flaws...granted these are late round players and most will not make it to the NHL whether they can skate or not, but it just seems that the Wild always think they can "fix" skating flaws...

 

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I'm not as big of a draft wonk as you are, but are there players around the picks that the Wild had that did not have skating issues? It seems time and time again that these players that have skating issues never make it above the AHL, and the Wild seems to be drawn to  them with the thinking that they can "fix" the skating flaws...granted these are late round players and most will not make it to the NHL whether they can skate or not, but it just seems that the Wild always think they can "fix" skating flaws...

 

 

 

Quite a few.  I mentioned one in Chase Wouters.  Right handed, center...in my Sleeper picks article.  He didn't get drafted, have no idea why not.  

[Davey J]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

Hey kids, let's play a game!

 

Name that Wild defenseman!

 

Owns very good size and has puck-moving skills. Also looks like a true all-round defenseman down the road. His offensive ability is also on the rise and has good potential.
FLAWS:
Must get stronger in order to maximize his frame at the National Hockey League level. Also needs to prove he can become a more intimidating presence as a professional.
CAREER POTENTIAL:
All-round defenseman with a little upside.

 

Has supreme puck-moving ability, plus a projectable frame and defensive acumen. Can log plenty of minutes for his hockey club, in any situation, which adds to his overall value.
FLAWS:
Needs to add more bulk and get physically stronger to best handle National Hockey League forwards. May be a bit too passive in his demeanor, overall. Injuries can be a factor.
CAREER POTENTIAL:
Talented puck-moving defenseman with a little upside.

 

Good size and has puck-moving skills. Intelligent defenseman, but no part of his game is noteworthy. Potential safety net for a puck moving defenseman. 
FLAWS:
Needs to improve acceleration and strength. Also needs to bulk up to compete at NHL level.
CAREER POTENTIAL:
Top four all-round defenseman with a some upside.

 

 

 

 

Is this 1 d-man or 3?  My guess is Olofsson.

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I'm not as big of a draft wonk as you are, but are there players around the picks that the Wild had that did not have skating issues? It seems time and time again that these players that have skating issues never make it above the AHL, and the Wild seems to be drawn to  them with the thinking that they can "fix" the skating flaws...granted these are late round players and most will not make it to the NHL whether they can skate or not, but it just seems that the Wild always think they can "fix" skating flaws...

 

 

 

As to why they think they can fix skating flaws?  Not sure why.  IMO, skating is tough to fix; because most of these kids have been aware of their inefficiency or struggle in that regard and unless they are foolish they probably took steps to try to fix it.  But just like speed, a person either has it, or they don't.  Its why skating issues really bother me, as no doubt they bother you as well.  

[IllaZilla]

5 minutes ago, Davey J said:

Is this 1 d-man or 3?  My guess is Olofsson.

 

You got one right!

[Davey J]

4 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

You got one right!

So it's 3 d-men you are looking for?

 

Brodin, Olofsson, and Johansson

 

 

[hf101]

51 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

As to why they think they can fix skating flaws?  Not sure why.  IMO, skating is tough to fix; because most of these kids have been aware of their inefficiency or struggle in that regard and unless they are foolish they probably took steps to try to fix it.  But just like speed, a person either has it, or they don't.  Its why skating issues really bother me, as no doubt they bother you as well.  

 

It really depends on the skating coach, program, and desire to improve.  

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/skating-hockeys-most-fixable-flaw-ron-hextall-flyers-aim-find-out-nhl-draft

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

14 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

It really depends on the skating coach, program, and desire to improve.  

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/skating-hockeys-most-fixable-flaw-ron-hextall-flyers-aim-find-out-nhl-draft

 

 

(shrugs)   I don't believe it, because if it really was that straight forward, you wouldn't have any poor skaters.  You can work and refine as much as you want, but you are only as fast as you are meant to be.  I could've worked my ass off, did every single thing they said...and I'd still never hold a candle to Bobby Orr in the skating department.  Skating, like size...is mostly about what you're given.  

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, Davey J said:

So it's 3 d-men you are looking for?

 

Brodin, Olofsson, and Johansson

 

 

Actually it’s Olofsson, Brodin, and Johansson. 

Call me crazy, but there seems to be a pattern there...

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

As to why they think they can fix skating flaws?  Not sure why.  IMO, skating is tough to fix; because most of these kids have been aware of their inefficiency or struggle in that regard and unless they are foolish they probably took steps to try to fix it.  But just like speed, a person either has it, or they don't.  Its why skating issues really bother me, as no doubt they bother you as well.  

I kind of equate skating to throwing a baseball. Some guys have the proper mechanics from age 6 and other guys throw 3/4 or side arm. And no matter how hard you work with them, some just never are able to correct it. Some guys will always have that hitch in their throw that will make them less and less desirable as they advance. Eventually, they won’t make the team because the coaches can’t fix that hitch in their throw that they’ve had since third grade...

[hf101]

19 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Skating, like size...is mostly about what you're given.  

1

 

Absolutely not.  Speed on the ice is very technical from the weight distribution, where you are on the blade, whether on the ball of the foot or the middle or just behind the middle. Then there are the edges, used for power and acceleration, balance and control. Learning how to improve your acceleration in the first couple of steps can make a huge difference in one's overall skating.  

 

 

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

10 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

Absolutely not.  Speed on the ice is very technical from the weight distribution, where you are on the blade, whether on the ball of the foot or the middle or just behind the middle. Then there are the edges, used for power and acceleration, balance and control. Learning how to improve your acceleration in the first couple of steps can make a huge difference in one's overall skating.  

 

 

 

 

Really?  Why are there any slow skaters then?  You can improve, but not transform from being slow to being fast.  You will plateau and that's it.  You can try to improve on your edges, change your training regimen all you want...but in a day and age where kids have been going to power skating schools, having sport specific trainers...kids are still slow or below average skaters.  Kurtis Gabriel has been training with one of the best trainers in Canada, worked with skating coaches for years and he still lumbers around the ice.  Sorry, I'm not buying it, because you would never have ANY bad skaters and that obviously not the case.  

[Bear]

 

This years draft focused on small and slow and we tried another Kurtis Gabriel pick with Jack McBain first thing I thought of when they picked him C and A. 

[CreaseAndAssist]

27 minutes ago, Bear said:

 

This years draft focused on small and slow and we tried another Kurtis Gabriel pick with Jack McBain first thing I thought of when they picked him C and A. 

 

I don't see Gabriel as the same type of player as McBain at all.  Gabriel was only over going to be a pair of knuckles that wears skates.  He won some sympathy for his work ethic and 'want' to be here hence why he was passed over.  Yet, it was an off the board selection.  McBain was a guy who slid a bit from where he was projected and he's more of an offensive player.  I do see the parallel you're getting at; with McBain getting kudos for his strong performance in other sports.  However, if he is that kind of athlete and STILL has skating issues how much more can he realistically expect to improve.  Flahr thinks its a strength issue...maybe, we'll see.  Granlund did improve his first 3 step quickness, but he's still not a fast player...adequate...but not fast, especially for a player of his size.  

[Davey J]

The hockey world is full of players who have great hands and heads OR can skate like the wind.  There are very few who can do it all...which is why 1 out of 1000 kids get a sniff at the NHL.  (I just made that stat up - it's probably longer odds than that.)  However, there are players who suddenly become fast as their body grows up.  Keep what I am about to say in perspective...I wasn't NOT an NHL caliber player.  Growing up, I  always had average to below average speed.  I was a good skater, but not fast.  As a result, I had to learn to play angles better and think more.  This was true in all sports - I was a slow runner too.  But, when I turned 19, my body changed and I went from having below average speed to being the fastest player on my team.  I was also (suddenly and to my surprise) the fastest guy among my friends when we played tackle football and I could blow by people playing pick-up basketball.  I am 50 years old now and am still very fast (for my age and fatness).  My speed is relative...my team was a Jr B hockey team and my friends were all good athletes, but none of us ever played pro anything...  But my body did change and the result was a lot of fun for me.

 

I'm not saying this will happen to McBain or the other slugs the Wild just drafted, but...you never know.

[Razblo]

Since the draft was this weekend I figured I should finally make an account.

 

Reading everything I have about Filip Johansson, he sounds just like Brodin. Good stick, good positioning, good at a lot of things but great at nothing, etc.. Having another player like Brodin isn't a bad thing but I'm not really hyped about him either. From an outsider's prospective, given where he was ranked, it would have been nice to trade down (even into the 2nd round), get an extra pick or two, and still draft him.

 

When I'm looking at players to draft, I would rank skating pretty high on my list of desirable traits. If a player can skate well their low-end potential should be as a 3rd/4th line player that can kill penalties. Considering how much of a crapshoot the draft can be, if you can draft someone in a later round (5th/6th/7th) who skates reasonably well and can contribute even in a limited role then that is a win in my book.

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, Razblo said:

Since the draft was this weekend I figured I should finally make an account.

 

Reading everything I have about Filip Johansson, he sounds just like Brodin. Good stick, good positioning, good at a lot of things but great at nothing, etc.. Having another player like Brodin isn't a bad thing but I'm not really hyped about him either. From an outsider's prospective, given where he was ranked, it would have been nice to trade down (even into the 2nd round), get an extra pick or two, and still draft him.

 

When I'm looking at players to draft, I would rank skating pretty high on my list of desirable traits. If a player can skate well their low-end potential should be as a 3rd/4th line player that can kill penalties. Considering how much of a crapshoot the draft can be, if you can draft someone in a later round (5th/6th/7th) who skates reasonably well and can contribute even in a limited role then that is a win in my book.

 

I would say that is why I value skating above just about every other category.  If you are a terrible skater...the rest of it usually doesn't matter at all.  Take Teemu Pulkkinen for example.  Outstanding shot; certainly NHL calibre...but is a blah skater...so he doesn't make it.  He may get a few looks but the skating issues will only be highlighted at the NHL level.  

 

Filip Johansson isn't a bad skater, but he's not an excellent skater and if you're a 6'0" defenseman...IMO you better be a terrific skater to make up for the fact you're not big.  Again, I'm not seeing the 1st round upside to justify the pick.  The Wild's scouts obviously felt they saw something that most of the league's scouts didn't and I find that hard to believe given our track record of drafting.  

[McMahon 6]

10 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Again, I'm not seeing the 1st round upside to justify the pick.  The Wild's scouts obviously felt they saw something that most of the league's scouts didn't and I find that hard to believe given our track record of drafting.

 

Yep. This pick reminds me of the Vikings during the Childress regime trading up to grab Tarvaris Jackson because he was a "diamond in the rough" that all other scouts missed. It turns out that the other scouts missed his superstar potential for a reason: it didn't exist.

 

But hey, we're one tweak closer to that Cup run now, eh?

[4Check]

44 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

I would say that is why I value skating above just about every other category.  If you are a terrible skater...the rest of it usually doesn't matter at all.  Take Teemu Pulkkinen for example.  Outstanding shot; certainly NHL calibre...but is a blah skater...so he doesn't make it.  He may get a few looks but the skating issues will only be highlighted at the NHL level.  

 

Filip Johansson isn't a bad skater, but he's not an excellent skater and if you're a 6'0" defenseman...IMO you better be a terrific skater to make up for the fact you're not big.  Again, I'm not seeing the 1st round upside to justify the pick.  The Wild's scouts obviously felt they saw something that most of the league's scouts didn't and I find that hard to believe given our track record of drafting.  

On McBain, if I'm not mistaken, most scouts indicate his speed is more than adequate, it's his first couple of strides.   I would suggest, it is one of the myriad points of skating which is most correctable. And it's often typical of big players.    I believe Coyle is an example.  Very average at best acceleration and separation at Boston U and in juniors with the Sea Dogs..   I would now consider him above average in  those categories, especially for someone with his 6'3 220 frame.   

[IllaZilla]

3 hours ago, Razblo said:

Since the draft was this weekend I figured I should finally make an account.

 

Reading everything I have about Filip Johansson, he sounds just like Brodin. Good stick, good positioning, good at a lot of things but great at nothing, etc.. Having another player like Brodin isn't a bad thing but I'm not really hyped about him either. From an outsider's prospective, given where he was ranked, it would have been nice to trade down (even into the 2nd round), get an extra pick or two, and still draft him.

 

When I'm looking at players to draft, I would rank skating pretty high on my list of desirable traits. If a player can skate well their low-end potential should be as a 3rd/4th line player that can kill penalties. Considering how much of a crapshoot the draft can be, if you can draft someone in a later round (5th/6th/7th) who skates reasonably well and can contribute even in a limited role then that is a win in my book.

I think the thing most of us are upset with is the fact that the Wild took a third rounder in the first round and then acted like they were the smartest guys in the room...

[CreaseAndAssist]

2 hours ago, 4Check said:

On McBain, if I'm not mistaken, most scouts indicate his speed is more than adequate, it's his first couple of strides.   I would suggest, it is one of the myriad points of skating which is most correctable. And it's often typical of big players.    I believe Coyle is an example.  Very average at best acceleration and separation at Boston U and in juniors with the Sea Dogs..   I would now consider him above average in  those categories, especially for someone with his 6'3 220 frame.   

 

I think that is what Flahr has indicated when he mentioned adding strength, which is usually a discussion about your first 3-step quickness.  I think McBain could be ok, but again...it seems like he might have the highest potential of anyone we took in the draft.  And that is with a player we took in the 3rd round.  Let's all hope he's more assertive than 'nice guy' Coyle.

[EmptyShelf]

7 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

I think the thing most of us are upset with is the fact that the Wild took a third rounder in the first round and then acted like they were the smartest guys in the room...

Bingo.  I wish all our draft picks well.  However, you just can’t keep acting like your ‘the smartest team on the board’ when all the objective analysis and 20/20 hindsight analysis says ABSOLUTELY otherwise over several years with the same scouts.  You may even be viewed as the ‘dumbest guy in the room,’ reaching every year with hubris, only to get exposed in the playoffs.  This is where the Wild find themselves in most drafts, and most deadline deals for future draft picks.  

[rottenrefs]

The Sporting News Draft Grade

Minnesota Wild

Grade: C+

This grade would be a lot higher had Minnesota not thrown away its first-round pick on a player who had identical cohorts all through the second, third and fourth rounds. To be fair to defender Filip Johansson (24th), the kid knows how to play defense and his mobility makes it easy to keep pucks out of harm’s way. Still, it was a reach pick, and everyone outside of Minnesota seems to think the same. Centers Jack McBain (63rd) and Alexander Khovanov (86th) were once considered locks for the first round before slipping due to mediocre second halves and questions about their foot speed. They did a great job, however, by nabbing aggressive puck rusher Simon Johansson (148th), and forwards Connor Dewar (92nd) and Shawn Boudrias (179th) were two of my higher-rated overagers. Smallish centers Damien Giroux (155th) and Sam Hentges (210) are decent skill players who could make a lot of noise with their respective junior clubs next year.

[Jimtown guy]

I was watching some of the draft coverage from day 2 and one of the scouts they interviewed said Jack McBain (first pick of the 3rd round by the Wild) will be the best player in the draft not picked in the first round.

[Lonkkis]

5 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

The Sporting News Draft Grade

Minnesota Wild

Grade: C+

This grade would be a lot higher had Minnesota not thrown away its first-round pick on a player who had identical cohorts all through the second, third and fourth rounds. To be fair to defender Filip Johansson (24th), the kid knows how to play defense and his mobility makes it easy to keep pucks out of harm’s way. Still, it was a reach pick, and everyone outside of Minnesota seems to think the same. Centers Jack McBain (63rd) and Alexander Khovanov (86th) were once considered locks for the first round before slipping due to mediocre second halves and questions about their foot speed. They did a great job, however, by nabbing aggressive puck rusher Simon Johansson (148th), and forwards Connor Dewar (92nd) and Shawn Boudrias (179th) were two of my higher-rated overagers. Smallish centers Damien Giroux (155th) and Sam Hentges (210) are decent skill players who could make a lot of noise with their respective junior clubs next year.

 

So general consensus is: Wild picked decent players, except for the first-rounder.