murraycraven Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I have zero doubt Holmgren makes a trade that includes someone like Farabee or Frost and a 1st for someone who used to be very good. Oh ya, and a 2nd. Booby Ryan.... welcome home!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Oh ya, and a 2nd. Lol. Why does he hate 2nd round picks so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 56 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yep. Translation: Homer "Hey GM's have you seen my draft pick and prospect coffers have been restocked by my colleague whom i have removed as an obstacle we are open for business, i am ready to overpay and get fleeced once again....everyone gets a complimentary 2nd rounder for your business....." I'm not so sure about that. I really doubt you see the kind of deals this team used to make and I think Meltzer's take is on point. It sounded like Hextall was automatically against making moves, whereas now there will be more of an open mind. Look, if they trade Travis Sanheim for Milan Lucic, I'll be pissed off. But, if they trade a young prospect or two for Panarin or Nylander, hey you gotta give to get. The problem is that Holmgren's proclivity for making some ill advised trades and signings strikes fear in us all. Plus, the Flyers pretty much announced that they are desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Scott: "I want to spend to the cap" Shouldn't that comment worry us? Not if they spend it wisely. Frankly, I thought that was a shot at Hextall for amassing cap room and not doing anything with it while he stared at gaping holes at 3C, goalie and the PK. All that cap room coming out of summer was damning to Hextall. I don't think Scott is suggesting they spend stupid money on stupid contracts. But you can't waste it either if opportunities exist, especially when you have a few holes to patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Just now, vis said: Not if they spend it wisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, vis said: I'm not so sure about that. I really doubt you see the kind of deals this team used to make and I think Meltzer's take is on point. It sounded like Hextall was automatically against making moves, whereas now there will be more of an open mind. Look, if they trade Travis Sanheim for Milan Lucic, I'll be pissed off. But, if they trade a young prospect or two for Panarin or Nylander, hey you gotta give to get. The problem is that Holmgren's proclivity for making some ill advised trades and signings strikes fear in us all. Plus, the Flyers pretty much announced that they are desperate. Guess we'll see soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan4ever Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 What seems very strange to me is that there is no replacement for Hexy. Why did they have to make the move 'right this minute'? I get that you have Homer able to carry the load until a replacement is found but to me it just seems odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, vis said: I'm not so sure about that. I really doubt you see the kind of deals this team used to make and I think Meltzer's take is on point. It sounded like Hextall was automatically against making moves, whereas now there will be more of an open mind. Look, if they trade Travis Sanheim for Milan Lucic, I'll be pissed off. But, if they trade a young prospect or two for Panarin or Nylander, hey you gotta give to get. The problem is that Holmgren's proclivity for making some ill advised trades and signings strikes fear in us all. Plus, the Flyers pretty much announced that they are desperate. My issue is "are (we're) those types of trades available"? Tavares wasn't coming here. Ottawa wasn't sending Karlsson to the East. Is Columbus looking to send Panarin to a division rival? (For that matter would Panarin sign in Philly.) Are the Leafs looking to send Nylander in Conference? As I think you pointed out, he got the #2 UFA in JVR. Might the team have done better had JVR not missed most of the first quarter? The issue was Clearly the play on the ice - and you can't fault the GM entirely for the team simply not being ready to play. THAT for me is the problem and has been for years and THAT's on the Coach and staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, murraycraven said: Booby Ryan.... welcome home!!!!!!!! As funny as that is....it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, vis said: Not if they spend it wisely. Frankly, I thought that was a shot at Hextall for amassing cap room and not doing anything with it while he stared at gaping holes at 3C, goalie and the PK. All that cap room coming out of summer was damning to Hextall. I don't think Scott is suggesting they spend stupid money on stupid contracts. But you can't waste it either if opportunities exist, especially when you have a few holes to patch. Yep and had been saying this much since the season started and they struggled...like bro there is money sitting there ready to be used WTF are you waiting for??? What was the point to free it up if you ain't going to use it??? And i mean use it smartly not just the sake of using it. It is like sitting in the lifeguard stand with a ready life preserver and seeing someone drowning and just sitting there doing nothing thinking i hope they figure out HOW to swim. And now we see he is without a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Lol. Why does he hate 2nd round picks so much? Threw them away like they were 8th rounders. That's right....eighth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Just now, OccamsRazor said: Yep and had been saying this much since the season started and they struggled...like bro there is money sitting there ready to be used WTF are you waiting for??? What was the point to free it up if you ain't going to use it??? And i mean use it smartly not just the sake of using it. It is like sitting in the lifeguard stand with a ready life preserver and seeing someone drowning and just sitting there doing nothing thinking i hope they figure out HOW to swim. And now we see he is without a job. Who was he going to use it on? He got probably the 2nd best UFA this year in JVR...and I personally could have cared less if he didn't get him. Tavares was going to Toronto. The rest was basically "meh". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Threw them away like they were 8th rounders. That's right....eighth. I see what you did there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Threw them away like they were 8th rounders. That's right....eighth. We had a pretty decent 10th rounder for a while. Did some good things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 1 minute ago, radoran said: My issue is "are (we're) those types of trades available"? I don't know, but it sure seems like others in the organization thought they might be. I bet the Flyers wanted to at least be in the conversation with Tavares and by most accounts it seems like the Flyers never were. IIRC, Hextall had to do a little backtracking when he said something like he'd have no interest in bringing in a player like that. Can't recall the exact quote. Maybe the problem was that Hextall wasn't even willing to explore the possibility of those trades being available. 1 minute ago, radoran said: Might the team have done better had JVR not missed most of the first quarter? Maybe, but not sure by how much. The big problems still exist: goaltending and PK. Not sure JVR could over come those issues. 1 minute ago, radoran said: THAT for me is the problem and has been for years and THAT's on the Coach and staff. The ready to play thing is mindboggling and, I agree, is a coaching issue. But I think some of that lies on the players as well. I will say this: at times last year and this year I found myself praising Hakstol for getting wins out of the roster. I haven't been enamored with the teams Ron has put together. And that is definitely a GM issue. Not saying Hextall was the main reason this team has been treading water and sinking at times. Lots of blame to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Who was he going to use it on? He got probably the 2nd best UFA this year in JVR...and I personally could have cared less if he didn't get him. Tavares was going to Toronto. The rest was basically "meh". There are other ways to obtain players you know than just signing them. Like i don't know maybe a trade. Ya know get creative....kinda what got him canned not doing nothing. Status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, fan4ever said: What seems very strange to me is that there is no replacement for Hexy. Why did they have to make the move 'right this minute'? I get that you have Homer able to carry the load until a replacement is found but to me it just seems odd. Agree. And then wait a day before holding a PC. Letting a coach face the media in the midst of all of this. Poorly planned (if at all). How many GMs are fired/hired in the middle of a season? I'm not sure there is any real playbook, but it seems the Flyers aren't doing it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: There are other ways to obtain players you know than just signing them. Like i don't know maybe a trade. Ya know get creative....kinda what got him canned not doing nothing. Status quo. Ok, fair enough. I agree Hextall wasn't very good, or should i say active, at trading. I was ok with it because he was building up a crapload of depth in the prospect department. I was hoping he would go the 2-1st rounder route once more this year and then maybe swing a deal. Then again, I think I'm more patient than the average Flyer fan. A big part of that comes from watching them try Homer and Clarkes way for 20 friggin years with no luck, so i was all in for giving Hextalls way a shot. The problem with that is after Homer destroyed the team and left it in shambles they promoted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, vis said: All that cap room coming out of summer was damning to Hextall. I don't think Scott is suggesting they spend stupid money on stupid contracts. But you can't waste it either if opportunities exist, especially when you have a few holes to patch. I'm not jumping on you here. I've seen this a few places and have a few questions: I'm curious who they "should" have gotten with that cap room. Also keeping in mind that Provorov (despite his struggles) is up after this year as are Sanheim and Konecny. Like it or not, there wasn't a whole heluva lot of room on the roster. And it's fine to say "trade Lehterrible" (or buy him out or bury him), or "waive Weise and Raffl" but there's nothing saying the two "veteran guys" that replace them aren't the next Boyd Gordon (or Dale Weise or Michael Raffl). Who were the players obviously better than Raffl and Weise and Lehterrible that they "didn't get" over the summer? Moreover, as has been pointed out, maybe it's not "the players" not knowing how to play hockey, but the coaches not putting them in the best system... Goalie? Sure. Which goalie should they have gotten? They have ZOMG Can't Miss Greatest Goalie Not Yet In The NHL in the system already and looking to come up in 1-3 years. What goalie should they have brought in? What goalie comes here in that circumstance? 32-year-old, first-time starter Carter Hutton? The top "known" FA options were essentially Kari Lehtfourin and Steve Mason. The grass is always greener, but sometimes that's because it's over the septic tank. Just now, vis said: Maybe the problem was that Hextall wasn't even willing to explore the possibility of those trades being available. I'm curious about this, because it seemed that Tavares was going to Tronno or Bust. I just feel this could be another Suter/Parise Situation where they were simply never going to come here. Moreover, you've got a breakout 1C in Couturier, a former 1C in Giroux, a #2 overall 2C in Patrick and you're going to drop $10M on a 1C? I can see not being interested in Tavares - and this also relates to the cap space in 2020 and 2021. I'm OK with Hextall going. I think the coach should quickly follow. I just don't get some of the rationale being offered for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Who was he going to use it on? He got probably the 2nd best UFA this year in JVR...and I personally could have cared less if he didn't get him. Tavares was going to Toronto. The rest was basically "meh". Buyout Neuvirth's last year. Sign Carter Hutton (3 years, $8.25 million) or Lehner (1 year, $1.5 million) or Halak (2 years, $5.5 million). I know it's arguable whether Lehner or Halak are better than Neuvirth, but at least they stay healthy. Doubtful they could have gotten Gurbauer, but did Hextall even try? Tyler Bozak would be a pretty decent 3C and PKer (3 years, $15 million). Or maybe Michael Grabner (3 years, $10.5 million). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 1 minute ago, radoran said: I'm curious who they "should" have gotten with that cap room. Also keeping in mind that Provorov (despite his struggles) is up after this year as are Sanheim and Konecny. Just threw out a few names above to address PK and 3C. Possibly others if he didn't back the truck up to pay JVR. 1 minute ago, radoran said: Moreover, as has been pointed out, maybe it's not "the players" not knowing how to play hockey, but the coaches not putting them in the best system... Goalie? Sure. Which goalie should they have gotten? They have ZOMG Can't Miss Greatest Goalie Not Yet In The NHL in the system already and looking to come up in 1-3 years. What goalie should they have brought in? What goalie comes here in that circumstance? 32-year-old, first-time starter Carter Hutton? The top "known" FA options were essentially Kari Lehtfourin and Steve Mason. My point re: goaltending is that you have China-doll Neuvirth and Elliott coming off of surgery. Relying on them to be healthy is fool's gold. At least sign someone who could be reliable from an injury perspective so you didn't have to dip into the coveted farm system. 1 minute ago, radoran said: I'm curious about this, because it seemed that Tavares was going to Tronno or Bust. I just feel this could be another Suter/Parise Situation where they were simply never going to come here. Moreover, you've got a breakout 1C in Couturier, a former 1C in Giroux, a #2 overall 2C in Patrick and you're going to drop $10M on a 1C? I can see not being interested in Tavares - and this also relates to the cap space in 2020 and 2021. I'm OK with Hextall going. I think the coach should quickly follow. I just don't get some of the rationale being offered for it. As I said, I think the Tavares think is more of the organization thinking they should have been in the discussion with Tavares. Did I expect him to come here? Nope. Did I think Hextall should throw a mint at him? Nope. But it's a shame when the Flyers aren't at least mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, vis said: Buyout Neuvirth's last year. Sign Carter Hutton (3 years, $8.25 million) or Lehner (1 year, $1.5 million) or Halak (2 years, $5.5 million). I know it's arguable whether Lehner or Halak are better than Neuvirth, but at least they stay healthy. Doubtful they could have gotten Gurbauer, but did Hextall even try? Tyler Bozak would be a pretty decent 3C and PKer (3 years, $15 million). Or maybe Michael Grabner (3 years, $10.5 million). You just know none of those goalies would stay healthy in Philly. I saw plenty of Bozak when he played for the Leafs. His lack of a 200 foot game probably didn't interest Hextall at all. And I don't have a problem with that. He isn't good enough to NOT care when he doesn't have the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Monet Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Holy **** reading the cliff notes from the presser makes me very nervous! I accepted the rebuild and appreciated its fresh concept. It has been a fun ride and the flyers are on the cusp of breaking through. If homer tears it down and screws up all the patience we have been sitting on, I might walk away. I get hexy being being too stagnant. I understand replacing him BUT don’t ruin s the good work he has done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: You just know none of those goalies would stay healthy in Philly. Well, I'd take that chance instead of relying on Elliott or Neuvirth to belie the recent past and somehow remain healthy. 2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I saw plenty of Bozak when he played for the Leafs. His lack of a 200 foot game probably didn't interest Hextall at all. And I don't have a problem with that. He isn't good enough to NOT care when he doesn't have the puck. Be honest. You don't like any Maple Leaf (kidding of course). Fair enough re: Bozak. But how was Grabner not on his radar? Is he bad news or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Just throwing it out there that Filppula has 7g, 9a, 16pts in 23 games as the 3C, and a team-high +9. He's playing with such luminaries as Kuhnackl (4pts) and Komarov (11pts). So why are the Isles able to get so much more out of a guy who we all collectively decided was a waste of space? Coaching? Usage? Systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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