vis Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 3 hours ago, mojo1917 said: @vis @Podein25 Now I am being a little silly with some of this but my point is I don't spend assets on those middle pairing guys. I do think about sending Voracek, Hagg and a first to Calgary for Giordano, or to LA for Doughty, If my team is to give up some good players I want somebody awesome coming back for them. Generally agree. Again, as mentioned in my post, they need at least a legit top 4 d-man (frankly, more like a top pairing guy, but not necessarily a 1D). I don't think bringing in a bottom sixer makes sense. Outside of Karlsson (who I don't think would come here), I don't see any real options available in UFA that fit the bill. So, then I think you're looking at the trade route. Maybe the Flyers can address forward (e.g., center in UFA) and the defense via trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 hours ago, brelic said: why not bring in a guy like Duchene? I do see your point, and you may be right that Patrick would be better served if not forced to play 2C. That said, I really don't like Duchene. He's a whiny crybaby who seems to only perk up when someone calls him out or when he's playing for a new contract. He's also the definition of defensively suspect, which makes him a poor centre imo. Slotting Duchene with someone like JVR would make for some eye-opening defensive misplays though, so there is that! 3 hours ago, mojo1917 said: I do think about sending Voracek, Hagg and a first to Calgary for Giordano, or to LA for Doughty, I would consider this as well. I doubt Giordano will be made available any time soon, but Doughty might. LA is about to embark on a very long and arduous rebuilding journey. Doughty may not want to be a part of it. He does seem to enjoy life on the coast though. I don't much see the point of bringing in another vet dman just to have another vet dman. I don't really buy the idea that having one more of those would help our young kids learn the ropes or anything like that. They need to figure that stuff out on their own. Doughty though is fantastic. I'd take him in a heartbeat if we could somehow manage it. Ship out a package including JVR to get him, and try to find the money to sign Panarin. I'm not sure the math works out, but that would make for one hell of a potential improvement for next season. G / Couts / TK Panarin / Patrick / Voracek Lindblom / Frost* / ??? Doughty, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, Ghost, Gudas, Morin *After he's torn up the AHL for a few months in LHV! I'm not sure what that would mean for Seattle though. Also, this whole thing sounds like a metric ton of wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, elmatus said: I do see your point, and you may be right that Patrick would be better served if not forced to play 2C. That said, I really don't like Duchene. He's a whiny crybaby who seems to only perk up when someone calls him out or when he's playing for a new contract. He's also the definition of defensively suspect, which makes him a poor centre imo. Slotting Duchene with someone like JVR would make for some eye-opening defensive misplays though, so there is that! Yeah, could be... I don't watch enough of Duchene to know. But someone in that kind of role (and who has an ability to play wing too) could be very helpful. Couturier wasn't ready for 1C until about his 7th season. No one knows how long Patrick will take to fully develop, so if we can get a legit top 2 center, it would go a long way. 7 minutes ago, elmatus said: I would consider this as well. I doubt Giordano will be made available any time soon, but Doughty might. LA is about to embark on a very long and arduous rebuilding journey. Doughty may not want to be a part of it. He does seem to enjoy life on the coast though. I don't much see the point of bringing in another vet dman just to have another vet dman. I don't really buy the idea that having one more of those would help our young kids learn the ropes or anything like that. They need to figure that stuff out on their own. Doughty though is fantastic. I'd take him in a heartbeat if we could somehow manage it. Ship out a package including JVR to get him, and try to find the money to sign Panarin. I'm not sure the math works out, but that would make for one hell of a potential improvement for next season. Some top D that might legitimately be available in a trade are Doughty, Subban, and Pietrangelo. The latter two have been mentioned in trade rumours by legitimate sources (i.e. not Eklund). Other than that, you'd be hard pressed to find a team willing to trade a top pairing defenseman unless you really overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 minute ago, brelic said: Some top D that might legitimately be available in a trade are Doughty, Subban, and Pietrangelo. The latter two have been mentioned in trade rumours by legitimate sources (i.e. not Eklund). Other than that, you'd be hard pressed to find a team willing to trade a top pairing defenseman unless you really overpay. I don't think I'd bother with Pietrangelo. He's good, but I don't think he has the level of impact we would need to consider displacing our current crop. Doughty I would consider for sure and likely Subban as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Or even JVR if they prefer. LOL. As if. The guys a $7M bum basically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Podein25 said: LOL. As if. The guys a $7M bum basically Bum is a little harsh. He can score some goals. He has missed some games this year I think like 17 and he is tied for 3rd on the team with Giroux at 19 goals. Not too shabby. He has some value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 On 3/1/2019 at 7:06 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: The biggest issue is going to be finding playing time and who plays where. For instance, what do the Flyers do with Farabee and Frost? If they both make the team, where do you play them? Gut feeling is that they probably get sent to Lehigh Valley, but it certainly creates a good situation. Farabee is almost definitely going back to college next year. Frosty will likely make the Flyers as he's the most obvious solution at 3C. Failing that, he'll get time in LV until the Flyers need him. On 3/1/2019 at 7:06 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I don't see the Flyers going after Panarin. I think the top six in Philadelphia is set with Giroux - Patrick - Voracek and Lindblom - Couturier - Konecny. Third line is two thirds complete with JVR and Hartman and the fourth will consist of Laughton and two other players. I hope you're wrong. They're going to have a lot of cap room and a Wing is what they need most. We think of it as a 3RW, but I think there are ways to make it a 1 or 2 LW. Holmgren and Scott are going to want a big name signing. I like improving the first or 2nd line, it'll make your 3rd automatically better. In the end, it's about combinations. You don't just put your best LW with your best C and RW if they don't click. On 3/1/2019 at 7:06 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I'll start with the fourth line first because it's the easiest to address. Keep Laughton on the left side, call up NAK for the right side and then sign a guy like Brian Boyle to play the middle. This line doesn't need to put up points, Laughton and NAK bring speed and forechecking while Boyle is a much needed face off specialist. These are the kind of moves a team makes when they can't make bigger moves. The Flyers have players internally who can fill these roles including resigning Raffl for the 4th line. On 3/1/2019 at 7:06 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: As for the third line, that's where things get dicey. If Frost isn't ready, do the Flyers use Vorobyov there? If Vorobyov fails, then what do the Flyers do. Part of me thinks that a free agent is probably going to be signed and that someone like Anders Lee or Brock Nelson might be that guy. They might get a 5 or 6 year deal, but there's going to be no NMC given, so they'll be good for the expansion draft. There's no way Seattle is going to take Anders Lee or Bock Nelson (I like both players though) when they could choose whichever of Ghost, Sanheim, Provo, Myers or Morin the Flyers don't protect. I just don't see it making sense to sign them or Duchene with Frost looking as solid as he does right now. It's always a gamble, but shoring up the wings instead (both Brock and Lee have played and do play wing) is a better use of cap space IMHO. If I was going to bring in a 3C, it would be via trade for someone with a few years left on his term. On 3/1/2019 at 7:06 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Defense shouldn't be a big problem. Right now, you could go with Provorov - Meyers, Sanheim - Gudas, Morin - Gostisbehere and that allows for MacTurd and Hagg to be moved. I'd love to have a veteran, but Provorov, Gudas, and Gostisbehere have been in the league long enough that they're veterans now. I wouldn't mind singing Tyler Myers, waiving Mac, trading Hagg and letting Morin play 7th to ease his way back into shape. You could also consider trading better than Hagg to improve your Wings (probably Ghost), but I'd want a really solid step up at RW for him. On 3/1/2019 at 7:06 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Finally, there's goaltending. We all know that Hart is the present and future. What the Flyers need is a LEGITIMATE back up. Jimmy Howard might be the ideal player here. He's the perfect mentor for Hart. I'm not sure if Talbot is the answer (although it's hard to know since he hasn't played a game) and Elliott is at the point in his career where he's injury prone. He's very good when he plays and gets on a roll, but often gets hurt at inopportune times. I'm still disappointed in the trade for Talbot. Stolarz's injury history is a concern, but the fact is, resigning Talbot will cost more and won't be easy because he could likely be offered a better shot at a starting job someplace else. I know he's said he's amenable to it, but I'm not into what it would likely cost. Yes Stolarz was a lining up to end up UFA, but he still wouldn't cost much at this point. With Ustimenko and Sandstrom likely poking around the AHL next year, I also don't anyone on a long term deal in a backup role. I was not impressed with Talbot in his one game. Those rebounds on the goals were terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 31 minutes ago, Podein25 said: LOL. As if. The guys a $7M bum basically He's got 21pts in 23 games. If that's a bum, I'll take 11 bums and Claude Giroux and win a dozen cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 5 hours ago, brelic said: You think so? I mean, I agree that these last 16 games are really an audition for where he slots... but I would be very surprised if Fletch doesn't even bother to tender an offer to the guy that came back in the Simmonds deal. Oh yeah, that was completely an "I" statement. I think you're very right on what you think happens with him and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 43 minutes ago, King Knut said: He's got 21pts in 23 games. If that's a bum, I'll take 11 bums and Claude Giroux and win a dozen cups. Lol, ok, I guess I was a bit harsh. But you don't honestly think that "JVR" and "Stanley Cup" belong in the same sentence do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Lol, ok, I guess I was a bit harsh. But you don't honestly think that "JVR" and "Stanley Cup" belong in the same sentence do you? Speaking only for myself, I hope so, he's on the books for a "while". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Podein25 said: Lol, ok, I guess I was a bit harsh. But you don't honestly think that "JVR" and "Stanley Cup" belong in the same sentence do you? I firmly believe they belong in the same sentence more than “Two Time Stanley Cup Winner” and “Dan Carcillo” do, but here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Ek posted a list of upcoming top 25 UFAs. Who would you go after? I hadn't really thought much about Nyquist... but he is a RW (though shoots L), and had 49 points in 62 games with the Wings this year. Almost Definitely going to Market:1. Artemi Panarin2. Erik Karlsson3. Kevin Hayes4. Matt Duchene5. Mats Zuccarello6. Wayne Simmonds7. Sergei Bobrovsky8.. Jake Gardiner9. Derick Brassard10. Gustav Nyquist11. Jordan Eberle12. Marcus JohanssonPossibly re-signing with current club:1. Jeff Skinner2. Ryan Dzingel3. Joe Thornton4. Semyon Varlamov5. Robin Lehner6. Mike Smith7. Michal Raffl8. Joe PavelskiProbably Re-signing with current club:1. Zdeno Chara2. Anders Lee3. Brock Nelson4. Alex Edler5. Peter Mrazek6. Cam Talbot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, brelic said: Kevin Hayes Besides the ones already mentioned I wouldn't mind him as a center option. Depends on his asking price of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Besides the ones already mentioned I wouldn't mind him as a center option. Depends on his asking price of course. Yeah, he'd be on my very short list, provided he doesn't want more than 2-3 years. Nyqvist could be interesting, if unexciting. Panarin could be exciting, if unnecessary. Outside of that, I'm okay. I mean, if Little Joe had a brain hemorrhage and decided he'd come to Philly, I'm doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, ruxpin said: Yeah, he'd be on my very short list, provided he doesn't want more than 2-3 years. Honestly, I think this is/will be the biggest challenge to signing UFAs. No smart UFA who knows his value as a player will take 2-3 year contracts. Those that are left over might do it, but there's a reason they're left over. The Weises, Bozaks, Luke Schenns. Grabner signed 3 years, and he's a bottom six so it makes sense. If we're looking for a top 6, it might be tough to not overspend and overcommit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 21 hours ago, King Knut said: He's got 21pts in 23 games. If that's a bum, I'll take 11 bums and Claude Giroux and win a dozen cups. Hypothetically...with 11 JVRs I doubt you're winning any cups. He can score goals, sure. But someone else has to get him the puck. Imagine having ELEVEN guys on one team that just couldn't be bothered? Ok, so we've actually had that....but imagine if they were all the same guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: Hypothetically...with 11 JVRs I doubt you're winning any cups. He can score goals, sure. But someone else has to get him the puck. Imagine having ELEVEN guys on one team that just couldn't be bothered? Ok, so we've actually had that....but imagine if they were all the same guy? He's got almost as many assists as he does goals actually. Thing is, JVR isn't a great backchecker, I'll give you that (even though you didn't bring it up). But as far as his offense goes, I think there's a hangover from his first stint here at play. He's not lazy. He does battle for pucks, he does the dirty work in the corners, he does pass the puck decently. Sorry to disappoint some of the old schoolers who were disappointed with him as a #2 overall, but he's kind of a decent player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 17 minutes ago, brelic said: Honestly, I think this is/will be the biggest challenge to signing UFAs. No smart UFA who knows his value as a player will take 2-3 year contracts. Those that are left over might do it, but there's a reason they're left over. The Weises, Bozaks, Luke Schenns. Grabner signed 3 years, and he's a bottom six so it makes sense. If we're looking for a top 6, it might be tough to not overspend and overcommit. Hayes is 26 so I would be ok with giving him a 4 or 5 year deal. With one caveat. No NTC or NMC. That way they are stuck with that deal when a kid is ready and they need to move a center out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 minute ago, King Knut said: He does battle for pucks, he does the dirty work in the corners, he does pass the puck decently. Sure in the offensive zone he does not so much in the other end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Just now, OccamsRazor said: Sure in the offensive zone he does not so much in the other end. I think I said that and I think we all understand that JVR's not a bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 minute ago, King Knut said: Sorry to disappoint some of the old schoolers who were disappointed with him as a #2 overall, but he's kind of a decent player. Please, for the love of Christ, can someone more talented than me post some Corsi numbers, or heatmaps, or whatever, that prove that he's actually not really a decent hockey player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 minute ago, King Knut said: He's got almost as many assists as he does goals actually. Thing is, JVR isn't a great backchecker, I'll give you that (even though you didn't bring it up). But as far as his offense goes, I think there's a hangover from his first stint here at play. He's not lazy. He does battle for pucks, he does the dirty work in the corners, he does pass the puck decently. Sorry to disappoint some of the old schoolers who were disappointed with him as a #2 overall, but he's kind of a decent player. I'm well over him being the 2nd overall. I just didn't care one bit that Philly traded him (other than the return). And I don't know a single Leaf fan who cares that he left (and I know plenty of them). He's a decent player...with a $7 mil caphit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I know plenty of them Condolences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Just now, flyercanuck said: I'm well over him being the 2nd overall. I just didn't care one bit that Philly traded him (other than the return). And I don't know a single Leaf fan who cares that he left (and I know plenty of them). He's a decent player...with a $7 mil caphit. Of course Leaf fans don't care that he's gone... they have Tavares in exchange for him and the emergence of Mitch Marner to go along with boring the old news (21 year old) Aston Matthews. Which is to say nothing of their other very impressive forwards (of which there are LEGION). But all of those Forwards are going to merit at least $7million when they are UFA (likely when they're RFA's actually) and Toronto won't be able to keep them all (they're already paying Nylander too much and have to unload him and he's just the tip of the ice berg). Toronto has a ton of really good young players. Great. We have several pretty good young players and a ton of cap room. So we have to sign a few $7million dollar guys. Decent players cost $7million bucks. Sorry. I am unable to separate trading him all those years ago from the return (and frankly the reasons behind the need for that return). I also wouldn't care if he was traded now (I'd like to sign Panarin and trade JVR to make room for a RW somehow) but I'm not going to sit here and pretend like he's not helping win games and looking fairly strong doing it. I'm not going to delude myself or insult any of you by pretending he sucks. That's the reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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