2019 Off-Season

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

So they could sign, say, Eberle or Hayes for 5 years, then trade for Trouba. Yeah, I'd be good with that. A bit underwhelming, but it makes the team better than it is now. 

I thinki"a bit underwhelming" is a good description, but I also agree it could be very effective.  I don't think I'd be really happy with Eberle, but I would take a look.

 

3 minutes ago, brelic said:

Vegas needs to shed salary. That's why I mentioned W Karlsson a while back. I'd love him in Philly.

 

This was one of my two favorite suggestions on this thread.  I also really liked the Tyler Johnson idea.   Karlsson is younger, so there's that.  

5 minutes ago, brelic said:

Would you do it? [Farabee]

 

No, I wouldn't.  You may find this mildly entertaining, because it's a weird about face:   I'm currently refusing a Farabee (who hasn't played an NHL game yet) + 1st for Mitch Marner while at Farabee's draft I was less than lukewarm to him and was advocating for several other players.  I think it was largely because I wasn't excited about a college player and waiting around for him to graduate rather than anything specifically about him.  But I still think it's kind of ironic.

[mojo1917]

54 minutes ago, brelic said:

That's why I mentioned W Karlsson a while back. I'd love him in Philly.

I too have been advocating for signing all the Karlssons.

all of them

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Marner for Farabee and the 11th? Sign me up. However, the reality is that it would probably be Sanheim/Meyers, Farabee and the 11th. That's a heavy cost, but damn, Marner is so worth it. 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

Marner said they will be exploring other teams.

 

What does Marner want for money?

 

He just outpointed two guys making $11M+ on the Leafs. I don't think he signs for Nylander money (~$7M). Do you go $10M?

 

Does that outbid other teams?

 

Honestly, I don't go the RFA route and lose five firsts for him. He's not Von Hayes.

[OccamsRazor]

31 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

What does Marner want for money?

 

He just outpointed two guys making $11M+ on the Leafs. I don't think he signs for Nylander money (~$7M). Do you go $10M?

 

Does that outbid other teams?

 

Honestly, I don't go the RFA route and lose five firsts for him. He's not Von Hayes.

 

I seen a rumor this morning that the Isles plan on offer sheeting him...

[brelic]

41 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Marner for Farabee and the 11th? Sign me up. However, the reality is that it would probably be Sanheim/Meyers, Farabee and the 11th. That's a heavy cost, but damn, Marner is so worth it. 

 

Oof. I don't know if I'd part with Sanheim in this case. And if Sanheim is a requirement in the trade, I don't think you 'd need both Farabee and 11th to get it done. Maybe Farabee and a 2nd rounder or the 11th overall and, say Lindblom.

[OccamsRazor]

I will start with a package of Sanheim, the 11th pick, Frost and....something else...

 

...i would counter with the 11th, Ghost, Rubtsov, and next years first....

[OccamsRazor]

Also if you were to trade for the kid i think it starts at 11.5 mill and go from there.

 

And then does he become your 1st line center or your 2nd line center???

[brelic]

35 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

What does Marner want for money?

 

He just outpointed two guys making $11M+ on the Leafs. I don't think he signs for Nylander money (~$7M). Do you go $10M?

 

Does that outbid other teams?

 

Honestly, I don't go the RFA route and lose five firsts for him. He's not Von Hayes.

 

Good question. It's quite possible that this was Marner's career year. Things lined up really well, and having guys like Matthews, Tavares, Reilly really help with the offense. They were a run and gun team. Many players have their statistical peak between 22-24.

 

I don't mean that to diminish Marner's value, but more of not overly inflating it. He's got to do it more than once, in my book, to justify that kind of contract. But I know someone will be willing to give it to him, so it becomes a de facto requirement to get him.

 

 

[brelic]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

Also if you were to trade for the kid i think it starts at 11.5 mill and go from there.

 

And then does he become your 1st line center or your 2nd line center???

 

Neither. He's a winger. At least thus far in his NHL career.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Neither. He's a winger. At least thus far in his NHL career.

 

Yeah i was think he was a center. Ok so the top line RW. 

 

HHHhhmmmmm. Giroux - Couturier - Marner.

 

So they would still have a hole at 2nd line center...so that gets filled in free agency.

 

So what did Marner cost??

 

I would be ok with 11th, Ghost, Rubtsov and the 1st in 2020.

 

Would they and would they get better offers from another club??

 

They might have to go with 11th, Sanheim, Rubtsov and a 1st in 2020. 

 

This would help with their cap issues.

[RonJeremy]

13 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Is there a Dallas in Minnesota?

Sorry I’m so old school I’m thinking Minnesota North Stars, so since they moved to Texas..

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Also if you were to trade for the kid i think it starts at 11.5 mill and go from there.

 

And then does he become your 1st line center or your 2nd line center???

Marner? I keep him on RW and begin making calls about Voracek. 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah i was think he was a center. Ok so the top line RW. 

 

HHHhhmmmmm. Giroux - Couturier - Marner.

 

So they would still have a hole at 2nd line center...so that gets filled in free agency.

 

So what did Marner cost??

 

I would be ok with 11th, Ghost, Rubtsov and the 1st in 2020.

 

Would they and would they get better offers from another club??

 

They might have to go with 11th, Sanheim, Rubtsov and a 1st in 2020. 

 

This would help with their cap issues.

Man, I don't want to include Sanheim in this.  But you did a nice GM job of leading with Frost, so I'd think about it. 

 

I'd prefer Ghost, but that doesn't help Toronto with their cap. 

 

Based on previous conversations, I like Sanheim more than you. I just really don't want to give him up. 

[AJgoal]

Marner probably costs you Konecny + Myers/Sanheim + draft picks.

 

Or you offer him 10.5 x 5 years (2 1sts, 2nd, 3rd) and see what happens. Of course, that takes him to UFA.

[brelic]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Man, I don't want to include Sanheim in this.  But you did a nice GM job of leading with Frost, so I'd think about it. 

 

I'd prefer Ghost, but that doesn't help Toronto with their cap. 

 

Based on previous conversations, I like Sanheim more than you. I just really don't want to give him up. 

 

Put another way, which scenario truly makes the Flyers better as a team?

 

+ Marner

- Sanheim, Farabee or Ratcliffe, and one or two 1sts

 

Or

 

+ Kadri

- 11th OA or Rubtsov and 2nd rounder (though Rubtsov doesn't have much value).

 

Marner is the best player in any deal, so of course, he truly makes the Flyers better. But is the cost worth losing an up and coming top pairing defenseman, one of our best prospects, and possibly two 1sts?

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Put another way, which scenario truly makes the Flyers better as a team?

 

+ Marner

- Sanheim, Farabee or Ratcliffe, and one or two 1sts

 

Or

 

+ Kadri

- 11th OA or Rubtsov and 2nd rounder (though Rubtsov doesn't have much value).

 

Marner is the best player in any deal, so of course, he truly makes the Flyers better. But is the cost worth losing an up and coming top pairing defenseman, one of our best prospects, and possibly two 1sts?

My honest answer to "which makes the team better" is your Kadri option. You've filled a need without creating a bunch of other holes. 

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

My honest answer to "which makes the team better" is your Kadri option. You've filled a need without creating a bunch of other holes. 

 

Exactly what I hope Fletch does in terms of filling needs, making the team better, without creating a bunch of other holes. He's gonna have to give up quality talent and assets to do it, just don't give up things that create holes.

 

My preference is to NOT deal the 11th OA for, say, Kadri, but we as fans only see things in a vacuum, or at least missing a lot of key information.

 

Two years ago, I wouldn't have been happy with this deal, but it's more palatable now to give up one year of a 1st round pick.

 

I wouldn't love it, wouldn't hate it, but I'd be excited that 2C is not in question and the cost was not a gross overpayment (like, say 15 games of old Martin Erat for 11th overall Filip Forsberg).

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Marner probably costs you Konecny + Myers/Sanheim + draft picks.

 

Or you offer him 10.5 x 5 years (2 1sts, 2nd, 3rd) and see what happens. Of course, that takes him to UFA.

 

I'm glad you put it this way it kind of opened my eyes.

 

So just for this arguments sake they would be trading away 84 points and creating a hole maybe in the top 4 maybe for 94 points and MORE later with whatever else happens.

 

So to me not worth it sorry I pass on the shiny Marner and the hole he would maybe create.

[mojo1917]

11 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Marner probably costs you Konecny + Myers/Sanheim + draft picks.

 

Or you offer him 10.5 x 5 years (2 1sts, 2nd, 3rd) and see what happens. Of course, that takes him to UFA.

I'm not sure if it was you but a rational thinking person talked me off the "Marner ledge" and your post is why.

I think TK is a born Flyer and has room to grow and I like both those big young guys on the blue line.  Myers, I think takes a huge step forward since he had a nice off season playing for team Canada. 

That is a lot of quality to give up for one guy and I haven't even gotten to the picks.

 

This is why I have closed myself off from the "Marner pipe dream" he's too expensive, no matter how it's done.

This is also why I would love to see- I think it's your idea also-  extending an  offer sheet to Kapanen.  I can totally live with a 1st, and 3rd as compensation. The team gets a very good player and the impact of the assets used is like the 401k coming out of a paycheck, barely even felt. 

[OccamsRazor]

This reminds of the lure of Weber back a few years ago with the offer sheet.

 

They would have given up four first for him which now we thankfully didn't say dodged a bullet.

 

No to Marner go another route.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I'm not sure if it was you but a rational thinking person talked me off the "Marner ledge" and your post is why.

I think TK is a born Flyer and has room to grow and I like both those big young guys on the blue line.  Myers, I think takes a huge step forward since he had a nice off season playing for team Canada. 

That is a lot of quality to give up for one guy and I haven't even gotten to the picks.

 

This is why I have closed myself off from the "Marner pipe dream" he's too expensive, no matter how it's done.

This is also why I would love to see- I think it's your idea also-  extending an  offer sheet to Kapanen.  I can totally live with a 1st, and 3rd as compensation. The team gets a very good player and the impact of the assets used is like the 401k coming out of a paycheck, barely even felt. 

 

Exactly. Pass and it isn't even including his 11 mill price tag.

 

I say I'm with you keep the assets and find another way.

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I'm not sure if it was you but a rational thinking person talked me off the "Marner ledge" and your post is why.

I think TK is a born Flyer and has room to grow and I like both those big young guys on the blue line.  Myers, I think takes a huge step forward since he had a nice off season playing for team Canada. 

That is a lot of quality to give up for one guy and I haven't even gotten to the picks.

 

This is why I have closed myself off from the "Marner pipe dream" he's too expensive, no matter how it's done.

This is also why I would love to see- I think it's your idea also-  extending an  offer sheet to Kapanen.  I can totally live with a 1st, and 3rd as compensation. The team gets a very good player and the impact of the assets used is like the 401k coming out of a paycheck, barely even felt. 

 

The biggest reason for pause, to me, is that Marner is unproven. He's done it once, let's see him do it again before backing up the asset and money truck. 

 

I just don't know if he's that good once removed from Toronto and the players around him.

[brelic]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Exactly. Pass and it isn't even including his 11 mill price tag.

 

I say I'm with you keep the assets and find another way.

 

Right. So now we're back to guys like Kadri, Hayes, Eberle. 

 

Duchene will want term. Panarin would be a great boost, but he plays on a side of strength for this team (G/JVR/Lindblom). Not sure a $7M JVR on the 3rd line is the best use of assets.

 

William Karlsson would be my primary target. He had a down year so his value might be more reasonable with the expectation that he can bounce back at least somewhere between last year and the one prior.

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I can totally live with a 1st, and 3rd as compensation. The team gets a very good player and the impact of the assets used is like the 401k coming out of a paycheck, barely even felt. 

 

Yes and you'd be give a rival salary help and a possible top 2 D man who you have spent five years developing...and they say thank you and have a good day.

 

Hell no. And I know you and I are on the same page.

 

We just said 4 or 5 years ago top pair D men are hard as hell to find and here we are about to give him away.

 

I say NO.

 

Go find options in free agency.