Potential moves for Flyers

[OccamsRazor]

36 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Gudas for Niskanen. That should solve Fletch's itch for a vet dman I would think.

 

I like Niskanen, and his contract isn't too long or for too much. The only hiccup I can see is the M-NTC. I'm assuming that means he would need to be protected from Seattle, which all but guarantees we'll be losing a pretty good young blueliner imo, unless Fletch dangles someone more enticing somehow.

 

I am not totally against this move he did struggle some this year but it happens to all players. He has Cup experience and is under contract for the next two years at a reasonable cap hit.

 

The only problem i have is the retaining part of Gudas salary. I thought Gudas was on a solid deal one year left for what he brings.

 

Guess we'll have to see what else happens.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I am not totally against this move he did struggle some this year but it happens to all players. He has Cup experience and is under contract for the next two years at a reasonable cap hit.

 

The only problem i have is the retaining part of Gudas salary. I thought Gudas was on a solid deal one year left for what he brings.

 

Guess we'll have to see what else happens.

 

The retention is just over $1 million dollars. It's chump change in the grand scheme of things. The moving of Gudas all but guarantees that Morin is going to play a lot next year. His size, meanness and skating ability will put him ahead of Hagg.

 

I wanted the Flyers to sign Niskanen originally when he was a free agent. I think having him in a supporting role for the younger defensemen is ideal. 

[intheslot]

On 6/11/2019 at 6:56 PM, intheslot said:

Flyers Reportedly in Contact With Jets About Nikolaj Ehlers

if they make that move ,A mac will be bought out..

 3,833base buy out with 1.91667 for 2 years.. cap hit..

think the target is Laine...

told ya ..

[OccamsRazor]

• Tony Androckitis

   

  @TonyAndrock

   

No inside info on this one, but I just have a feeling Robert Hagg will be moved for a draft pick and David Schlemko will be the #Flyers 7th defenseman this fall. Can you imagine Chuck Fletcher's approval rating with fans if he bought out AMac and traded Hagg in the same summer?

Hhhhhmmmmmmmmm...

[elmatus]

9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

• Tony Androckitis

   

  @TonyAndrock

   

No inside info on this one, but I just have a feeling Robert Hagg will be moved for a draft pick and David Schlemko will be the #Flyers 7th defenseman this fall. Can you imagine Chuck Fletcher's approval rating with fans if he bought out AMac and traded Hagg in the same summer?

Hhhhhmmmmmmmmm...

 

Nothing like a 7th defenseman trade to get the rumour mill going!

[brelic]

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/06/rangers-islanders-devils-interested-in-winnipegs-jacob-trouba.html

 

Quote

 

Winnipeg has not given permission to inquiring clubs to speak with Trouba’s agent, Kurt Overhardt, about a long-term contract, which could run as high as seven years and $7.5MM.

 

The Jets are reportedly asking for a first-round pick and two top prospects or two young NHL players, likely signed to low-cost contracts. That is likely to be exactly what they’ll get as Trouba, a 6-foot-3, 202-pound blueliner had a breakout season offensively with a career high 50 points last season, including 42 assists, which was ninth in the league for defensemen.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, no thanks. 

 

I'd much rather Subban if that's going to be the cost for Trouba. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by brelic

[CoachX]

So would the 11th, hagg, and one of our prospects get it done?

 

Personally, I think this is too much and this kind of deal will bite the Flyers in the ass

[brelic]

11 minutes ago, CoachX said:

So would the 11th, hagg, and one of our prospects get it done?

 

Personally, I think this is too much and this kind of deal will bite the Flyers in the ass

 

I doubt it. Think about the players you're willing to include without question (e.g. Hagg). Those are not the players they want, IMO.

 

Especially that there are reportedly a dozen teams interested. The price will be jacked up, and would be something like 11th OA, Frost/Myers and Lindblom.

 

However, we have Ghost as a chip, and that would change the equation I'd guess.

[CoachX]

Still, no way Ghost gets traded

[elmatus]

33 minutes ago, brelic said:

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/06/rangers-islanders-devils-interested-in-winnipegs-jacob-trouba.html

 

 

Yeah, no thanks. 

 

I'd much rather Subban if that's going to be the cost for Trouba. 

 

Yeah, no. Let someone else pony up if that's the case for Trouba. The hype train on this guy is unreal. He's had exactly one productive season in his entire career, and his defensive metrics don't exactly make him out to be the next Chara either. Hard pass imo.

[brelic]

20 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Yeah, no. Let someone else pony up if that's the case for Trouba. The hype train on this guy is unreal. He's had exactly one productive season in his entire career, and his defensive metrics don't exactly make him out to be the next Chara either. Hard pass imo.

 

It's the reality of a limited market. 

 

 

[elmatus]

Just now, brelic said:

 

It's the reality of a limited market. 

 

 

 

Yeah, the same thing's happening with Hayes too. The difference is we need a 2C something fierce. We don't need what Trouba brings. To me he's more of a "would be nice to have" kind of guy, and I'm not sure I'm interested in overpaying for that.

[AJgoal]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

It's the reality of a limited market. 

 

 

 

The fact that the market is limited does not make overpaying for a player that is a lateral move, expecting a large contract, a good idea. 

[elmatus]

27 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

The fact that the market is limited does not make overpaying for a player that is a lateral move, expecting a large contract, a good idea. 

 

A lot depends on perception of course. Fletch has a pretty singular mandate right now of getting this team to the playoffs next season. Period. Anything short of this would be a failure.

 

So where are this team's biggest needs? Well 2C is the most pressing for sure. The UFA market isn't filled with good 2C options though. Hayes is probably the better option on there, and that alone shoots up his value. Someone is going to pay good money to get him, not because he deserves it necessarily, but because the options behind him are even less enticing. That's the definition of a limited market.

 

I do think we might be able to find better by trading Ghost mind you. That's in another thread

[brelic]

29 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

The fact that the market is limited does not make overpaying for a player that is a lateral move, expecting a large contract, a good idea. 

 

I think that if Fletch improves the team without unduly creating other holes he can't fill or depleting the farm system of our top prospects, then it's a good idea.

 

Just based on what we know of Fletch so far, he does not at all sound like a guy willing to give up 11th OA, Frost and a young roster player (even if it's Hagg) for Trouba. He's not reckless.

 

But he does sound like a guy who's not done upgrading the blueline ("we'll continue looking at ways to improve our defense...").

 

So in that light, getting Subban for, say, Ghost, would improve the blueline without being reckless, and leaving Trouba for teams that are more desperate for help (which we are not).

[AJgoal]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

But he does sound like a guy who's not done upgrading the blueline ("we'll continue looking at ways to improve our defense...").

 

So in that light, getting Subban for, say, Ghost, would improve the blueline without being reckless, and leaving Trouba for teams that are more desperate for help (which we are not).

 

We continue to disagree here. There are all kinds of reasons to view that trade as both reckless and not improving the team.

 

Statistically speaking, Ghost and Subban are comparable on both sides of the ice. Subban tends to take the lead in realized metrics (goals for, goals against) where factors like teammate shooting percentages and goalie save percentages have a larger impact, while Gostisbehere tends to outperform Subban in creation/suppression metrics (expected goals, scoring chances for/against, etc). That doesn't even touch on the impact to the power play if Gostisbehere is removed from the unit, which I don't think many people consider in their rush to ship Gostisbehere out. 

 

Subban has 3 years left at 9 million. Ghost has 4 at 4.5.

 

Subban is 30. Gostisbehere is 26.

 

Is Subban's back issue going to become a chronic thing?

 

The value just isn't there for a trade. I like Subban, and I like Subban as a fit for this team. But if Ghost is the ask, that's a strong no from me. It's most likely a near term lateral move on ice, with the very real potential to downgrade the team overall before Subban's contract is up.

[brelic]

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

We continue to disagree here. There are all kinds of reasons to view that trade as both reckless and not improving the team.

 

Statistically speaking, Ghost and Subban are comparable on both sides of the ice. Subban tends to take the lead in realized metrics (goals for, goals against) where factors like teammate shooting percentages and goalie save percentages have a larger impact, while Gostisbehere tends to outperform Subban in creation/suppression metrics (expected goals, scoring chances for/against, etc). That doesn't even touch on the impact to the power play if Gostisbehere is removed from the unit, which I don't think many people consider in their rush to ship Gostisbehere out. 

 

Subban has 3 years left at 9 million. Ghost has 4 at 4.5.

 

Subban is 30. Gostisbehere is 26.

 

Is Subban's back issue going to become a chronic thing?

 

The value just isn't there for a trade. I like Subban, and I like Subban as a fit for this team. But if Ghost is the ask, that's a strong no from me. It's most likely a near term lateral move on ice, with the very real potential to downgrade the team overall before Subban's contract is up.

 

I'm just coming at it from Fletch's lens and not my own. Subban has been linked to the Flyers, and Ghost has been in the rumour mill for a while. I don't know if the swap would be for each other or in separate trades, but the net result is Ghost = out and Subban = in if we are to believe the rumours. 

 

I like Ghost, and I'd prefer if he were on the team. He brings an intangible game-changing element to his game when he's on. That's not easy to find. 

 

I probably won't like all the moves Fletch makes initially, including moving Ghost and bringing in Subban... but if the product on the ice is better, then I'm excited to watch the team. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

Is Subban's back issue going to become a chronic thing?

 

It might since he is dating Tiger Wood's X the Olympic skier Lindsey Vonn...

 

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

Subban has been linked to the Flyers, and Ghost has been in the rumour mill for a while.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong about a Subban for Ghost trade. I do think you're wrong about that being an improvement.

 

I like Subban, but he's on a bad contract for what he seems to be capable of at 30. Ghost is a very comparable player to him, is cheaper, younger, and is on a much more reasonable contract.

 

I get that Fletch has said Ghost is on the block, and I honestly think it would be possible to upgrade the team by trading Ghost. I just don't think trading Ghost for Subban is an upgrade.

 

I want to see a solid upgrade already. Ghost is the obvious trade chip to make that happen, but it really should fill a need we have.

Edited June 17, 2019 by elmatus

[OccamsRazor]

On 6/13/2019 at 9:36 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

You forgot better too.

 

I just don't understand the love for Subban Ghost on a down year even out produced him at half the cost.

 

So are you going with the excuse Subban had a down year?

 

As I said it doesn't make sense the guy you want on a better team got out produced by the guy you want to trade.

 

The kid one year removed from a 65 point season...you want to trade for a guy making 9 mill per and has never scored 65 points in a season.

 

Just count me out completely.

 

I'm open for maybe moving Ghost but I need a lot more back and I don't even want PK at all.

 

 

BUMP!!!!

 

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, elmatus said:

Let someone else pony up if that's the case for Trouba

 

The Rangers heard you and have acquiesced...the 20th overall and Pionk??? A throw in.  

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The Rangers heard you and have acquiesced...the 20th overall and Pionk??? A throw in.  

 

The Flyers are more than a Trouba away form contention. Let the blue skirts overpay for him (because they still need to sign him and that's going to be a huge contact). If the price was too high then Fletcher did the right thing.

 

Right now, Fletcher just needs to get Hayes signed, get a backup goalie and sign a right winger and they're done. There are numerous teams with cap trouble and that's who the Flyers should target.

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The Rangers heard you and have acquiesced...the 20th overall and Pionk??? A throw in.  

Thats not alot to give up, I guess the Jets wouldnt let inquiring teams talk about a contract first. So the Rangers could end up with nothing if Trouba doesnt want to stay there. Im glad we didnt make a move without a guarantee. 

[elmatus]

9 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Thats not alot to give up, I guess the Jets wouldnt let inquiring teams talk about a contract first. So the Rangers could end up with nothing if Trouba doesnt want to stay there. Im glad we didnt make a move without a guarantee. 

 

Trouba has been pretty open over the last few years about not much liking his current team and wanting out. He's also been very clear about his salary expectations. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who's too concerned with winning. He wants money, and WPG isn't the place to play if you want money. NYC on the other hand fits the bill perfectly.

[brelic]

13 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Trouba has been pretty open over the last few years about not much liking his current team and wanting out. He's also been very clear about his salary expectations. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who's too concerned with winning. He wants money, and WPG isn't the place to play if you want money. NYC on the other hand fits the bill perfectly.

 

Haha, fair point, but $5M in Winnipeg >>>>>> than $7M in NYC. 

 

I think you mean he wants to *spend* money lol.