Kasperi Kapanen to Flyers in exchange for...... Philippe Myers?

[WordsOfWisdom]

With trade rumors swirling, how about this one?  Kapanen's father Sami played for the Flyers. The Flyers need offence. The Leafs need defence.  Myers would give the Leafs a promising young defenceman with size, something the team is sorely lacking.

 

Thoughts?   

 

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

With trade rumors swirling, how about this one?  Kapanen's father Sami played for the Flyers. The Flyers need offence. The Leafs need defence.  Myers would give the Leafs a promising young defenceman with size, something the team is sorely lacking.

 

Thoughts?   

 

 

 

 

For me, no thank you. 

 

I'd consider Ghost or Haag. 

 

And I really like Kapanen, too.  And I like that Kapanen would probably push Farabee back to his natural left side.

 

Myers is different enough from our other dmen that I don't do that. 

 

And we don't actually need offense that badly. Sure, we're 15th in the league, so there's definitely room for improvement, but it's not an emergency. 

 

Not a horrible thought, but for me, not Myers. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

For me, no thank you. 

 

I'd consider Ghost or Haag. 

 

Ghost (no way I'm spelling his full name) is one of those players who might bounce back with a change of scenery... but even if he did, he's yet another offensive defenceman on a team that is basically just 18 forwards playing at this point. 

 

As for Haag, he's got ordinary size and nothing that really jumps out at me with his career numbers thus far. 

 

The Leafs would need to get someone who has the potential to be a #1 defenceman and to me that's Myers.    

 

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

And I really like Kapanen, too.  And I like that Kapanen would probably push Farabee back to his natural left side.

 

Myers is different enough from our other dmen that I don't do that. 

 

Kapanen is a proven commodity. Given a bigger role, his numbers would probably increase as well. Myers hasn't really proven anything yet, but you can see the potential is there for something great. Could be a colossal bust, or he could be a future Norris trophy winner. Who knows? 

 

This is all purely hypothetical, but I believe these are the kind of moves the Leafs need to be looking to make. They need to find the "next big thing" on defence. The price may be steep, but the Leafs need real help back there, not just spare parts.   

[ruxpin]

5 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The Leafs would need to get someone who has the potential to be a #1 defenceman and to me that's Myers.

 

I agree on the Myers side.   Which is  why I'd need more than Kapanen and what makes it a "no."

 

5 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

Kapanen is a proven commodity.

 

One that doesn't get a potential 1st pair defenseman.   Kapanen did well on Matthews' wing while Nylander stayed home and played with himself.   The Flyers don't  have a Matthews.  He tailed off.  He's now  a middle six winger.   That's good, but you're trading to a team with a bunch of middle six wingers and more coming.

 

There's risk on the Leafs side in this trade on the Myers' side.   He's un-drafted  and  I agree we just don't know yet. But there really is potential there.  I really don't think a winger that will probably top out in the high 40s in points gets Myers.

 

There's an argument for potential vs. potential, but this one isn't a deal I do.

 

I do agree with you on your  Ghost & Hagg comments.    Hagg is the playing style you need, frankly.  But he needs to be better at that style, IMO, before he gets a middle six winger.    Arguably defemseman > winger, but that's not the way Toronto's front office typically does math.

 

5 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I believe these are the kind of moves the Leafs need to be looking to make. They need to find the "next big thing" on defence. The price may be steep, but the Leafs need real help back there, not just spare parts

 

I agree with the kind of moves and where you're going.  I just don't think Kapanen is a steep price.    He could be.   But I'm not sure a could be winger gets a could be defenseman.

[ruxpin]

@WordsOfWisdom

 

I'm not sure how other teams would feel about this, but I'd actually be more open to moving Sanheim at this point, but I cannot shake the idea that would also be a mistake from Philly's side.  And that's not really about Kapanen. I have to repeat that I do like Kasperi; it's just that I guess i'm saying that I like Sanheim and am willing to consider moving him probably just due to his not having a great season.  But man, the tools are there.   

 

When the Flyers finally decide to trade one of their young defensemen, if anything is coming back I know I'm not going to be terribly happy when the news breaks.   I imagine that could be similar for Leafs' fans when/if Kapanen gets moved.    But the Flyers are almost definitely going to need to move one.

Edited January 23, 2020 by ruxpin

[mojo1917]

12 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

With trade rumors swirling, how about this one?  Kapanen's father Sami played for the Flyers. The Flyers need offence. The Leafs need defence.  Myers would give the Leafs a promising young defenceman with size, something the team is sorely lacking.

 

Thoughts?   

 

 

 

 

 

Will echo what rux is saying here. 

Phil Myers is: 6'5', 215 lbs, a right hand shot defensman, he has some snarl to his game, he skates like a smaller man, he sees the ice very well and has an overpowering shot from the point.  Guys like that don't grow on trees.

So while I love Kaspari Kapanen's X-box speed and overall skill set, he's not enough to pry Myers from my team if I'm  the GM. 

 

Rux mentioned Sanheim, again no way, Travis is starting to assert himself in the NHL the way he did playing for the Hitmen.  He's a better skater than Myers but only by a little, and is almost as big. Together they are starting to look like a really good NHL pairing.  Recently there have been moments where it's clear the game is slowing down for them and they are able to wreak havoc in the offensive and neutral zones so well, they don't spend time defending. I noticed this in the Kings game and versus the Pens and those guys can skate.

At this point in their development, I don't split them up let alone trade one of them. 

 

I don't know if Kapanen is enough of a game breaker to pry a potential top pairing guy from a team that isn't run by Peter Chirarelli .

 

It seems to me as though your team could use a guy that actually defends, we have Justin Braun as a rental and could add defensive prospect like Mark Friedman or Reese Wilcox, both of whom play the style you need, but are probably going to get caught up in a numbers game here, for Kapanen.  Freidman played very well in his call up during Braun's injury, Wilcox is a smart guy that plays minutes you don't notice and that's a thing I'm told people like about their defensemen.

[ruxpin]

39 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Rux mentioned Sanheim, again no way, Travis is starting to assert himself in the NHL the way he did playing for the Hitmen.  He's a better skater than Myers but only by a little, and is almost as big. Together they are starting to look like a really good NHL pairing.  Recently there have been moments where it's clear the game is slowing down for them and they are able to wreak havoc in the offensive and neutral zones so well, they don't spend time defending. I noticed this in the Kings game and versus the Pens and those guys can skate.

At this point in their development, I don't split them up let alone trade one of them. 

 

This actually is and has been my thoughts on Sanheim as well.  You and I are higher on him than some on this site (and elsewhere) seem to be.   He has struggled some this year, but what you describe is accurate.   I guess my comment (convoluted as it was now that I'm re-reading it) simply was that at this stage I'd consider Sanheim before Myers. 

 

But even with Sanheim, I want more than just Kapanen.   When Sanheim is on--particularly offensively--he is really very good.   And he has enough on defense that I know he's capable of a lot more given time and growth.

 

42 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

we have Justin Braun as a rental and could add defensive prospect like Mark Friedman or Reese Wilcox, both of whom play the style you need, but are probably going to get caught up in a numbers game here, for Kapanen

 

I think this is probably more appropriate, if likely completely unexciting from a Leafs' fan's perspective.

 

I really like Friedman, by the way.  I mention him more than Wilcox because while I have heard good things, I haven't seen him play.   Sadly, you're right about numbers.  It's possible Friedman slots in here next year since Braun is on a one-year, but he and Wilcox make sense as the trade bait.

[OccamsRazor]

12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

For me, no thank you. 

 

Hell to the nah!

 

We don't even know how good Myers is going to be.

 

6-5 D men with his skillset don't grow on trees.

 

Besides the Flyers are stacked at RW.

 

Hard pass for me.

[OccamsRazor]

9 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

As for Haag, he's got ordinary size and nothing that really jumps out at me with his career numbers thus far. 

 

And that goes for Kapanen he has put up one 20 goal season for 44 points.

 

So it would seem that Hagg I'd a fair trade for him.

 

So for me it would be Hagg for Kapanen swap take it or leave it.

 

And the Flyers honestly are solid at RW.

[OccamsRazor]

9 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The Leafs would need to get someone who has the potential to be a #1 defenceman and to me that's Myers. 

 

Sorry but I missed this part so you honestly think a kid with this potential is worth a 3rd line winger?

 

I must have missed something else.

[radoran]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sorry but I missed this part so you honestly think a kid with this potential is worth a 3rd line winger?

 

A "third line winger" who is 23 and has already put up more goals and more points in a season than our currently injured 2nd overall pick?

 

Kapanen's upside is a damn sight higher than 3rd line winger. I'm not at all saying he's worth Myers or Sanheim rightnow. But it's not like Sanheim is blowing the doors off and Myers, at 23 as well, hasn't exactly been a consistent presence on the team this season.

 

Maybe they can send the Leafs Friedman?

[WordsOfWisdom]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sorry but I missed this part so you honestly think a kid with this potential is worth a 3rd line winger?

 

I must have missed something else.

 

The Leafs could always "sweeten the pot" by tossing in another player or prospect with Kapanen in the trade or upgrading from a Kapanen to a Nylander for example. So there are options there to make a deal work. But once you start talking about proven NHL players the calibre of a William Nylander, then you have to be willing to part with something "real" on defence, and obviously the Leafs would want to pluck the guy who has the greatest potential to be the next Zdeno Chara off your roster.     

 

 

 

 

 

[radoran]

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

So it would seem that Hagg I'd a fair trade for him.

 

There's no way in hell that a borderline third pairing defenseman gets you a 23-year-old 20-goal scorer.

[mojo1917]

40 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

obviously the Leafs would want to pluck the guy who has the greatest potential to be the next Zdeno Chara off your roster. 

That would  be Samuel Morin but he broke his knees again, I think that kid has the potential to be a Chara-like late bloomer.

Chara was nothing with the Sens, a bust...just took him longer and damn he turned out fine for a long damn time.

Morin could be that player should he be able to stay healthy. He's got a great motor and could really skate for a being a giant too. 

 

[radoran]

25 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Chara was nothing with the Sens, a bust...just took him longer and damn he turned out fine for a long damn time.

 

Just adding, he was the "bust" in Uniondale for the Islanders when noted hockey genius Mike Milbury was the GM. They dealt him for Yashin, who, I think, they are still paying on the buyout*?

 

He put up pretty good numbers - two 40 points seasons - in Ottawa. The Sens opted to sign Redden instead of Chara who then went to the Bruins.

 

 

 

* they're not - that's DiPietro who's still pulling down $1.5M a year through 2028-29 to not play hockey for the Islanders. Yashin only got $2.2M a year from 07-08 through 14-15 to not play hockey for the Islanders.

 

In other news, Mike Milbury is "open" to another decision-making job in a hockey organization. He hasn't had one since 2007.

Edited January 23, 2020 by radoran

[Lindbergh31]

12 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Ghost (no way I'm spelling his full name) is one of those players who might bounce back with a change of scenery... but even if he did, he's yet another offensive defenceman on a team that is basically just 18 forwards playing at this point. 

 

As for Haag, he's got ordinary size and nothing that really jumps out at me with his career numbers thus far. 

 

The Leafs would need to get someone who has the potential to be a #1 defenceman and to me that's Myers.    

 

 

Kapanen is a proven commodity. Given a bigger role, his numbers would probably increase as well. Myers hasn't really proven anything yet, but you can see the potential is there for something great. Could be a colossal bust, or he could be a future Norris trophy winner. Who knows? 

 

This is all purely hypothetical, but I believe these are the kind of moves the Leafs need to be looking to make. They need to find the "next big thing" on defence. The price may be steep, but the Leafs need real help back there, not just spare parts.   

Problem is finding right-handed shooting defenseman with potential is hard to find and if you do find them you don't trade them away, so it would be a no for me when it comes to trading Myers for Kapanen (and I like Kapanen). You build your team from the goalie out and the Flyers seem to have a good one in Hart then you had Provorov, Sanhiem and Myers on D for starters and some decent forwards and go from there. The problem for the Leafs is Dubas is building from the forwards back, he's going to have to trade Nylander to get a top end defenseman.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

A "third line winger" who is 23 and has already put up more goals and more points in a season than our currently injured 2nd overall pick?

 

Kapanen's upside is a damn sight higher than 3rd line winger. I'm not at all saying he's worth Myers or Sanheim rightnow. But it's not like Sanheim is blowing the doors off and Myers, at 23 as well, hasn't exactly been a consistent presence on the team this season.

 

Maybe they can send the Leafs Friedman?

 

All that is true.  And yeah, the Friedman thing may have some legs to it, but I don't know that that helps Toronto right now, this season.  And I think that's the idea.

 

The thing about Kapanen is that he's currently a 3rd line winger, but that has to be more about who he's playing behind (Marner & Nylander).    So, both the "3rd liner' moniker and the 40-4x points thing may not be fair.

 

I still don't trade a Sanheim or Myers for a young winger who hasn't proven anything yet.   What I've seen of Kapanen I really like. And, of course, the pedigree. So, while tempting, I'd shoot for other options than shipping either of San-yers out.  (do you prefer "My-heim?")

[ruxpin]

17 minutes ago, Lindbergh31 said:

The problem for the Leafs is Dubas is building from the forwards back, he's going to have to trade Nylander to get a top end defenseman.

 

Strictly talking players, I'd look at this long and hard.  Myers (and probably something else) for Nylander.    But the cap difference is huge.

 

If the Leafs would take something like Myers/JVR for Nylander or Nylander/something, what do you do?

 

I think on the Leafs' side, Kapanen has shown he can slide up and produce next to Matthews.  I didn't think he did as well next to Tavares, though.   I don't know.

 

Interesting topic, @WordsOfWisdom.   Something fun to shoot the crap about while the league shuts down for its beauty pageant.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

There's no way in hell that a borderline third pairing defenseman gets you a 23-year-old 20-goal scorer.

 

Then I'm fine staying put.

 

Flyers don't need Kapanen they are ok at RW.

 

They can find a taker elsewhere.

 

 

[radoran]

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

All that is true.  And yeah, the Friedman thing may have some legs to it, but I don't know that that helps Toronto right now, this season.  And I think that's the idea.

 

Honestly that was more poking Occ about his current Mark Alt Friedman obsession.

[OccamsRazor]

22 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

The thing about Kapanen is that he's currently a 3rd line winger, but that has to be more about who he's playing behind (Marner & Nylander).    So, both the "3rd liner' moniker and the 40-4x points thing may not be fair.

 

No it's fair.

 

In Philly he would be a 3rd line winger playing behind Konecny and Voracek.

 

I can't sign off on possibly giving up and #2 defenseman who is still developing and only played 53 total NHL games for a a 3rd line winger....as I said he has put up 44 points.

 

ONCE.

 

They only way I do it is if @radoran and you need more bitching thread material for the next few years.

 

Then by all means do it. 

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No it's fair.

 

In Philly he would be a 3rd line winger playing behind Konecny and Voracek.

 

I can't sign off on possibly giving up and #2 defenseman who is still developing and only played 53 total NHL games for a a 3rd line winger....as I said he has put up 44 points.

 

ONCE.

 

They only way I do it is if @radoran and you need more bitching thread material for the next few years.

 

Then by all means do it. 

 

No, I'm with you.   I threw the 3rd line winger myself.  Just saying he's actually not (not necessarily, anyway), but you're right that he would be on the Flyers.   

 

And I really don't b###h on Flyers threads for the most part.  I save that for the Eagles threads.

 

Unless we're talking about a winger that clearly supplants someone in the top 6 (and pushes them down roster), I'm not moving a dman for him.    Kapanen doesn't do that for me.    There are teams out there that Kapanen slides into the top 6.  Those would be my target if he's the bait.

[flyercanuck]

13 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

 

 

The Leafs would need to get someone who has the potential to be a #1 defenceman and to me that's Myers.    

 

 

 

 

Ok, I agree the Leafs need to get a #1 defenceman...but surely you don't mean for Kapanen?!?

[radoran]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

In Philly he would be a 3rd line winger playing behind Konecny and Voracek.

 

I thought you were on the "trade Voracek" bandwagon. We'll save your seat.

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

They only way I do it is if @radoran and you need more bitching thread material for the next few years.

 

As if i would bitch about a Finn... SUOMI!

[WordsOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ok, I agree the Leafs need to get a #1 defenceman...but surely you don't mean for Kapanen?!?

 

You make it sound like this is Kapanen for Dougie Hamilton or something. This is Kapanen for what amounts to a prospect. We have no idea what Myers is or what he will become. What we've seen is a glimpse. He might be Chara-like or he might be Luke Schenn like. Who knows?

 

Kapanen is an established NHL forward. He's a ZERO RISK acquisition. You know you're getting ~20 goals, 40 points AND he has tremendous upside. He MIGHT become a 40 goal scorer. 

 

(Side note: All this forum chat helps me keep my mind off my dying grandmother, so it's nice to be able to escape my life right now and hide here in the forum keeping life fun.)