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WordsOfWisdom

Kasperi Kapanen to Flyers in exchange for...... Philippe Myers?

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15 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

They really need a Provorov. 

 

Sorry they ain't getting that guy....he's off limits. Not even going to comment on that any further.

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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

And you know you're not allowed to criticize the Captain ya know...consider yourself REPORTED!

 

I'll get a Global Moderator on that ASAP.

 

:thumbsu:

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13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sorry they ain't getting that guy....he's off limits. Not even going to comment on that any further.

 

Yeah, I really don't mean Provorov himself.   That's the type they need.

Sanheim MIGHT actually fit the type they need, but they'd need a heck of a lot more than Kapanen, IMO.

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2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, I really don't mean Provorov himself.   That's the type they need.

Sanheim MIGHT actually fit the type they need, but they'd need a heck of a lot more than Kapanen, IMO.

 

It's really the first time in Flyer history that they've had this many potentially good young defencemen. Why you'd trade them for middle 6 wingers (no offence to Kapanen but it's the easiest position to replace) is beyond me. 

 

 i'd rather wait and see how many of these guys pan out. Then see where the tweaking needs to be done.

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50 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 i'd rather wait and see how many of these guys pan out. Then see where the tweaking needs to be done.

 

Well, there's a little bit of prospecting involved here, though, right?

I mean, we can wait to see how many of the guys pan out.  Presumably, if they pan out  you keep them, or you know to demand a king's ransom.  But what about the others who don't pan out?   If you wait until you know they're not going to pan out, everyone else knows it, too.  So, instead of trading a what if to someone and getting value, you're trading the whiff for a 5th round draft pick or Dale Weiss.

 

I tend to lead toward you and take both my wins and losses.  
I mean, Nashville went the "trade the what if" route and I wonder if they or anyone would trade Seth Jones for  Ryan Johansen today.  Maybe.  I wouldn't.

 

But, I mean, at some point we're simply going to have more people trying to pan out than we have slots to see.   I don't have good answers, but there's none of them that I'm willing to part with for a 3rd line winger.

Edited by ruxpin
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My gut says the type of trade we might see is an experienced player going for picks.  We don't have much salary cap.  A generation of our high picks has health challenges or may not pan out.  

 

We are a marginal playoff team.  Fletcher and Company know that.  So do most fans. While there is noise about making the playoffs, deep down, I don't think there will be a lot of tears shed if that doesn't happen.  Fletch has stabilized the patient and reduced scoring.  But we are still struggling for a wild card slot.  

 

Patrick's continued absence is a bit scary and one that Fletcher needs to factor.  We are effectively down a 2-3 Center and sadly, NP's career may be in the balance.  Lindlbom's health case is scarier but the wing is different.  

 

Bottom line--if we could trade Niskanen (yes), Braun, Elliott, or Jake for a high pick and prospect, I say fine.  Our rebuild isn't going as fast as many hoped.  

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46 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I mean, Nashville went the "trade the what if" route and I wonder if they or anyone would trade Seth Jones for  Ryan Johansen today.  Maybe.  I wouldn't.

 

True. But if Johansen had worked out to be the #1C they were looking for, they wouldn't "miss" Jones all that much. It was a gamble, as any trade really is.

 

The conversation really can't just be about Kapanen for Myers. I don't think anyone outside of Tronno would do that rightnow.

 

Suppose the Finn in question was Rantanen? Still a RW, but clearly more established than Kapanen. Is moving Myers for a Rantanen and then Voracek (to make room in the top 6 for Rantanen) more appealing?

 

Doesn't matter because Colorado likely wouldn't do it. But would that be more of the kind of deal people would approve of?

 

I honestly don't know. In the end, there's no reason the Flyers should be in a rush to move any of the young D.

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1 minute ago, radoran said:

Suppose the Finn in question was Rantanen? Still a RW, but clearly more established than Kapanen. Is moving Myers for a Rantanen and then Voracek (to make room in the top 6 for Rantanen) more appealing?  Doesn't matter because Colorado likely wouldn't do it. But would that be more of the kind of deal people would approve of?

 

Well yeah, of course.   I have no understanding of why Colorado would do that.   No more than I could figure out why Toronto would trade Nylander for Myers.

 

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

True. But if Johansen had worked out to be the #1C they were looking for, they wouldn't "miss" Jones all that much. It was a gamble, as any trade really is.

 

Yeah, Jones/Johansen is  not really a Myers/Kapanen situation.    Nashville was obviously thinking 1C for Johansen, so a defensive prospect among many for a 1C made sense.  A risk that hasn't panned out (I don't think), but it made sense.   With Kappy, he really slots at 3 RW.   Yeah, we could move Voracek or something, but it hasn't happened yet so I don't see that happening.   So, we're back to defensive prospect with a bit of upside for a middle six winger.   

 

Good point about Johansen.

 

6 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I honestly don't know. In the end, there's no reason the Flyers should be in a rush to move any of the young D.

 

Yeah, I agree.  If they're going to do it, make it worth it.

 

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6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Well yeah, of course.   I have no understanding of why Colorado would do that.   No more than I could figure out why Toronto would trade Nylander for Myers.

 

Obviously Colorado doesn't do that. Tronno doesn't need to move Nylander, but if they're looking to get the #1C that WoW is referring to, that's likely the price they'd need to pay.

 

The point is what would "you" trade Myers for?

 

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

With Kappy, he really slots at 3 RW.   Yeah, we could move Voracek or something, but it hasn't happened yet so I don't see that happening. 

 

Kapanen slots as a 3RW in Philadelphia. He certainly has top 6 potential with "middle six" being the likely thing.

 

That's why the whole concept really doesn't make sense out of the gate for the Flyers even with the family history.

 

Still, having a 15-20 goal scorer on the 3rd line with potential for a 20-25 goal scorer on the 2nd isn't useless.

 

There's just no reason for the Flyers to do it.

Edited by radoran

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4 minutes ago, radoran said:

Tronno doesn't need to move Nylander, but if they're looking to get the #1C that WoW is referring to, that's likely the price they'd need to pay.

 

Yeah, I agree with this.  But if I'm Toronto and I'm trading Nylander, it's not for Myers.  No one is a guarantee, but I don't think I trade Nylander caliber/calibre for a potentially-good but still-unproven Myer.

 

6 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

The point is what would "you" trade Myers for?

 

Right now, it's not likely I do.  I'm bullish on him, so the people I would want for him the other GM would be nuts to do.

 

But I'm higher on the Flyers than some here, so I don't see the gaping hole somewhere that would necessitate moving out a potentially up and coming defenseman.

 

I agree with everything you said in your post about Kapanen.   He's far from useless.   If they want to move him for Hagg or Ghost or even Friedman, I'm game.    Or if it's at the deadline and Toronto is in and we've fallen back, they may take Braun as a rental--though that would be a stretch to get Kapanen, IMO.  

 

I don't really care who his dad is.  He could be a shoe salesman in Peoria.  I'd happily take Kapanen, because he'd be hella valuable on the 3rd line with the ability to move up and he can play the left.    But not at that price.

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28 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

But I'm higher on the Flyers than some here, so I don't see the gaping hole somewhere that would necessitate moving out a potentially up and coming defenseman.

 

I don't see a "gaping hole" either, for that matter.

 

I'm just perhaps more wary of overvaluing the players because we see them more often and they're in the Flyers system. I like Myers. I'm fine with seeing how he develops. I'm just not on the "he's a can't miss #1D" bandwagon.

 

Just hasn't blown my doors off at this point and I see more than a few similarities to another Myers that was tall, highly touted, first round pick, made a splash into the league, and... turned out to be a relatively serviceable 3/4 journeyman defenseman.

 

We'll see.

 

For that matter, I remember when people wouldn't trade Samuel Morin for "anything" because he was "the next Chris Pronger." Yes, injury and whatnot.

 

But that's just the point of "no guarantees."

Edited by radoran
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56 minutes ago, radoran said:

I'm just not on the "he's a can't miss #1D" bandwagon.

 

Yeah, I'm not either. How many undrafted guys do that? He's made the NHL, so that's already bonus territory. 

 

My thought is solid second pair. Sure, first pair is possible.  But I'd be thrilled if he ends up anchoring the second pair. 

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

My thought is solid second pair. Sure, first pair is possible.  But I'd be thrilled if he ends up anchoring the second pair. 

 

And that's where a 20-25 goal scoring middle 6 LW starts to not be such a ridiculous trade...

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21 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

And that's where a 20-25 goal scoring middle 6 LW starts to not be such a ridiculous trade...

I suppose. 

 

But I'll keep the big, decent skating solid second pair.  YMMV

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4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Well yeah, of course.   I have no understanding of why Colorado would do that.   No more than I could figure out why Toronto would trade Nylander for Myers.

 

If/when Toronto trades Nylander, the price is going to be a lot higher than Myers. I mean we need to be realistic here.

 

4 hours ago, radoran said:

Obviously Colorado doesn't do that. Tronno doesn't need to move Nylander, but if they're looking to get the #1C that WoW is referring to, that's likely the price they'd need to pay.

 

Toronto needs a #1D.  Whether that comes in the form of an established veteran player with credentials or an up and coming prospect, the Leafs need major help defensively... and we have the pieces available to make it happen. If you consider that the Leafs could dangle Marner or Matthews in a trade, the sky is the limit in terms of what Toronto could get back. There's no defenceman in this league that the Leafs couldn't acquire. It's just a question of "how much?". 

 

:) 

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22 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

It's just a question of "how much?". 

If they're trading Matthews or Marner the real question is "who are the new owner and GM?" 

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I suppose. 

 

But I'll keep the big, decent skating solid second pair.  YMMV

 

Sure worked out for Winnipeg and now Vancouver to say nothing of Buffalo...

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1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

Sure worked out for Winnipeg and now Vancouver to say nothing of Buffalo...

 

Sure, I mean we can cherry pick this either way, though.

I'm not making that trade.  Not making that trade has worked out, and there are cases it hasn't.

Same as actually making the trade.

 

I'm not doing it for a 3rd line winger.   YMMV

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I'm not making that trade.  Not making that trade has worked out, and there are cases it hasn't.

Same as actually making the trade.

 

I haven't advocated for the Kapanen for Myers trade. Not once. Ever.

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1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

I haven't advocated for the Kapanen for Myers trade. Not once. Ever.

 

Then I need to be reminded what we're still talking about.

 

Because I said I didn't want to trade the 2nd pair dman for the 20-25 goal middle winger and I got Winnipeg and Vancouver (to say nothing of Buiffalo).  Thought we were still talking Myers and Kapanen.    My bad.   I'll wait to see who we're actually talking about.

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9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Then I need to be reminded what we're still talking about.

 

Because I said I didn't want to trade the 2nd pair dman for the 20-25 goal middle winger and I got Winnipeg and Vancouver (to say nothing of Buiffalo).  Thought we were still talking Myers and Kapanen.    My bad.   I'll wait to see who we're actually talking about.

 

I referenced a LW not a RW. And it's a complete hypothetical about something that's not going to happen anyway.

 

But the concept of trading a middle pair damn for a 20-25 goal scoring winger isn't at all outrageous.

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3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

If they're trading Matthews or Marner the real question is "who are the new owner and GM?" 

 

LOL. Yeah good point. I don't think it'll get to that.  :) 

 

I think the Leafs will look around to see who they can get for a Nylander or Kapanen, and if nothing amazing is out there, then we'll just do it through the draft and get ourselves some first round picks for each of those guys.

 

 

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2 hours ago, radoran said:

I referenced a LW not a RW. And it's a complete hypothetical about something that's not going to happen anyway.

 

But the concept of trading a middle pair damn for a 20-25 goal scoring winger isn't at all outrageous.

 

That's why I mentioned it, because I think that's the trade Toronto makes at the deadline, maybe even TWICE.

 

It'll be Kapanen for a player like Myers, wherever he happens to be in the NHL. A big, young, upcoming defenceman with serious potential... and then it'll be Nylander for an established veteran defenceman like we did last season with Muzzin, that's the kind of trade(s) that would make Toronto into the team it needs to be to win. 

 

:) 

 

Side note: My grandma just passed away today. So that brings closure to that. Now I have a funeral to go to. Appreciate the distraction as always guys/gals. 

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16 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Well, there's a little bit of prospecting involved here, though, right?

I mean, we can wait to see how many of the guys pan out.  Presumably, if they pan out  you keep them, or you know to demand a king's ransom.  But what about the others who don't pan out?   If you wait until you know they're not going to pan out, everyone else knows it, too.  So, instead of trading a what if to someone and getting value, you're trading the whiff for a 5th round draft pick or Dale Weiss.

 

I tend to lead toward you and take both my wins and losses.  
I mean, Nashville went the "trade the what if" route and I wonder if they or anyone would trade Seth Jones for  Ryan Johansen today.  Maybe.  I wouldn't.

 

But, I mean, at some point we're simply going to have more people trying to pan out than we have slots to see.   I don't have good answers, but there's none of them that I'm willing to part with for a 3rd line winger.

its simple, you trade them at a point when their trade value will never be higher. Thats normally one good game

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15 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Obviously Colorado doesn't do that. Tronno doesn't need to move Nylander, but if they're looking to get the #1C that WoW is referring to, that's likely the price they'd need to pay.

 

The point is what would "you" trade Myers for?

  

 

Kapanen slots as a 3RW in Philadelphia. He certainly has top 6 potential with "middle six" being the likely thing.

 

That's why the whole concept really doesn't make sense out of the gate for the Flyers even with the family history.

 

Still, having a 15-20 goal scorer on the 3rd line with potential for a 20-25 goal scorer on the 2nd isn't useless.

 

There's just no reason for the Flyers to do it.

we have a 30 goal scorer firmly rooting himself on the 3 and 4th lines. Thats the Flyers for you

 

"There's just no reason for the Flyers to do it." 

 

Excellent point. I totally agree. There is no rush when it comes to this. See what you have and hold your cards close. At seasons end you can look to make major changes. Maybe there is a deal at the deadline for Ghost, Jake or JVR.

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    • 8
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      For me, no thank you.    I'd consider Ghost or Haag.    And I really like Kapanen, too.  And I like that Kapanen would probably push Farabee back to his natural left side.   Myers is different enough from our other dmen that I don't do that.    And we don't actually need offense that badly. Sure, we're 15th in the league, so there's definitely room for improvement, but it's not an emergency.    Not a horrible thought, but for me, not Myers. 
    • 4
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      Problem is finding right-handed shooting defenseman with potential is hard to find and if you do find them you don't trade them away, so it would be a no for me when it comes to trading Myers for Kapanen (and I like Kapanen). You build your team from the goalie out and the Flyers seem to have a good one in Hart then you had Provorov, Sanhiem and Myers on D for starters and some decent forwards and go from there. The problem for the Leafs is Dubas is building from the forwards back, he's going to
    • 4
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      Honestly, they may be better off shopping Nylander to "get what they need" and move Kapanen up into that spot.     Colour me unimpressed with Hagg. There are times, as you say, he does something. And then there are the rest of the times.   I just don't see the Leafs moving a Kapanen to get a Hagg.
    • 3
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      Will echo what rux is saying here.  Phil Myers is: 6'5', 215 lbs, a right hand shot defensman, he has some snarl to his game, he skates like a smaller man, he sees the ice very well and has an overpowering shot from the point.  Guys like that don't grow on trees. So while I love Kaspari Kapanen's X-box speed and overall skill set, he's not enough to pry Myers from my team if I'm  the GM.    Rux mentioned Sanheim, again no way, Travis is starting to assert himself in the NHL t
    • 3
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      Then I'm fine staying put.   Flyers don't need Kapanen they are ok at RW.   They can find a taker elsewhere.    
    • 3
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      If/when Toronto trades Nylander, the price is going to be a lot higher than Myers. I mean we need to be realistic here.     Toronto needs a #1D.  Whether that comes in the form of an established veteran player with credentials or an up and coming prospect, the Leafs need major help defensively... and we have the pieces available to make it happen. If you consider that the Leafs could dangle Marner or Matthews in a trade, the sky is the limit in terms of what Toronto could get ba

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