Game 53: Flyers at Red Wings; 2/3/20 @ 7:30 PM

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Mike Richards did ads for West German BMW here in Philly Backinnaday

 

 

 

Ok now that makes sense...not privy to your local ads...now I can laugh.

[radoran]

 

32 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Giroux earned the constant questioning. Whe you are the best player on your team, and you dont play to that level, criticism is just.

 

I think we saw with Giroux that playing wing is really where he should be at this point in his career. As a center he was on a clear glide path of declining production from 13-14 through 16-17. Moving to wing (his natural position) in 17-18 changed the game for him.

 

I'm not one of those going "JVR should have 12-15 more goals and Giroux should have more points off those assists" which seems to be a popular theme.

 

He is what he is and the results are speaking for themselves. I don't think he's "useless" and does contribute. But, yes, they are going to need much more from him if/when they get to the playoffs.

 

I can appreciate that with the team on a roll and actually getting positive results that it's not the best time to be on the "G is suk" bandwagon. 

 

And I say this as one of those beating the "longest serving captain during the most disappointing stretch of hockey in organizational history" drum.

Edited February 4, 2020 by radoran

[fan4ever]

9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

You probably would have had to have been local when Richards played here.   Or Centre Ice accidentally carried the Philly feed.

 

West German BMW is a BMW dealership local to Philly.  Richards was their sports celebrity schlump on their commercials--during Flyers' games, anyway.  He delivered all of his lines like a hostage victim.  

 

 

"hostage victim" is the perfect description!!!  Thanks for the belly laugh!

[CoachX]

G has been my favorite player since that shift againt Pitrsburgh. I dont think he sucks, and Im noy advocating his removal. I just think he is playing uninspired, ineffective hockey.

 

They need to figure out where best to use him, and he needs to figure out how to give more

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Giroux earned the constant questioning. Whe you are the best player on your team, and you dont play to that level, criticism is just.

 

You see him doing alot of things right. I see him not doing the things he's expected to do. For the Flyers to be successful (i dont consider just making the PO a success), he will need to be an imapct player. They beat DET 3-0, with the game still in question in the 3rd. Hayes is the one who stepped up and made the crucial play.

 

We have seen this team go into slumps. I have no confidence it wont happen again, not when the captain is playing the way he is

You know what that's a fair take.  Reads really different from "Where's the captain ?".

EDIT: I'm sure some of this is posted because, people know it will start a conversation with some friction.  I think timing is important, and in the troll handbook, your timing should be cited , because it is nearly impeccable - and I mean that in a complementary way. 

 

I saw, JvR get stopped on a great chance. I saw TK sprung on two breakaways where he couldn't beat Bernier. All plays were set up by Giroux, he's been unlucky and not as good as last year. Also Bernier played really well last night that game could have been 5 or 6 -0 if the Wings had typical Flyers goaltending. 

I'm glad Hayes stepped up.

I'm happy for the win. 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by mojo1917

[mojo1917]

36 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Hagg has actually played well, I think.  So, do you sit Hagg for Ghost?

I trade Ghost for that  young scoring forward.

he's the best piece on the best contract for trading.

I think Hagg has been  playing his role very well. I don't think Ghost will be better than Sanheim or Myers at this point, I don't split them up either. Unless it's to move Myers to Provorov's right. Then Sanhiem and Niskanen would be a very difficult pairing to deal with. 

[Podein25]

 

28 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

He delivered all of his lines like a hostage victim. 

 

Lol

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

they are going to need much more from him if/when they get to the playoffs.

 

I think they are going to need more from him to get through this tough stretch of games the ones which are 4 points and with the teams they are battling for said playoffs.

 

I'm afraid if he is thinking he is going to save himself it will be for nothing.

 

He has gone pointless in the last 3 games.

 

Only 5 points in the last 12 games.

 

We know this is a results based job.

 

If he doesn't get his line firing none of this will even matter they will be outside looking in.

 

This isn't all on him but first thing he needs to worry about is producing on the ice.

 

It seems to me the other are coming around.

 

As AV said he needs his best players to be his best players....and like it or not it starts with him.

 

And I know you know this. Just chiming in I want playoffs this year!

 

 

[radoran]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I'm afraid if he is thinking he is going to save himself it will be for nothing.

 

I don't think he is "saving himself" - I think he's playing the wrong position, which is asking him to do other things. It's not an excuse, as much as an observation. As a center his production was on a persistent downward slide. As a wing, he exploded.

 

Now he's having to be a center again...

 

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

As AV said he needs his best players to be his best players....and like it or not it starts with him.

 

It absolutely starts with him. And I would rather that he be producing more than he has been.

 

But, as has been noted, they've won the past three games and taken 7 of 8 points without him scoring.

 

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

And I know you know this.

 

I'd be more concerned at this point if they were losing when he wasn't producing.

 

In the end, he's got to produce if the team is going make the playoffs and succeed in the playoffs.

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, radoran said:

But, as has been noted, they've won the past three games and taken 7 of 8 points without him scoring.

 

Sure but how do we know the teams they beat (the good ones) were playing down to their level of competition thinking they could just play the Flyers and bring their B game and win???

 

I guess we don't/won't be able to know. But his huge stretch will tell us a lot about where they stand amongst the good teams

[radoran]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

Sure but how do we know the teams they beat (the good ones) were playing down to their level of competition thinking they could just play the Flyers and bring their B game and win???

 

A wise man once told me: two points are two points. Oh, no, wait - that was you 

[King Knut]

9 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I don't think he is "saving himself" - I think he's playing the wrong position, which is asking him to do other things. It's not an excuse, as much as an observation. As a center his production was on a persistent downward slide. As a wing, he exploded.

 

 

I think this is a pretty big thing.  

The other thing to keep in mind is that the PP has been awful and he's still (mostly) playing absolutely out of position there too.  

 

I still contend that if they fixed the PP, we wouldn't be so worried about Ghost, G or JVR as much as we are.  AV and Fletcher have some explaining to do when it comes to why Therrien hasn't gone to what has worked in the past.

 

9 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

It absolutely starts with him. And I would rather that he be producing more than he has been.

 

But, as has been noted, they've won the past three games and taken 7 of 8 points without him scoring.

 

 

There's definitely something a little more tentative and less aggressive with him right now.  Part of that is the position most likely, maybe he's fighting a nagging injury, I'm not sure and I'm not sure it matters.  If he does anything aggressive it's trying to spring TK and hope JVR comes up with rebound or something, but here's the thing I noticed in the last two games at least:  He's not necessarily trying to score goals or points.  He's trying to win.  And I'm not sure he's trying to just win games, but I think he's thinking about the whole season.  

 

If they're up by a goal or two, Giroux's going to do exactly nothing to risk that lead.  He's playing extremely conservatively.  Part of that may have to do with being sick or banged up or frankly as a Dad myself I can say sometimes spending 9 days at home with a tiny baby is more exhausting than I could have ever imagined.  

 

No matter what it is, there may be something a little off with him, but I think that's just pushing him to put his focus on the fundamentals of executing AV's system exactingly. 

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

A wise man once told me: two points are two points. Oh, no, wait - that was you 

 

There you go listening to me.....that explains a lot now...

[CoachX]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I think this is a pretty big thing.  

The other thing to keep in mind is that the PP has been awful and he's still (mostly) playing absolutely out of position there too.  

 

I still contend that if they fixed the PP, we wouldn't be so worried about Ghost, G or JVR as much as we are.  AV and Fletcher have some explaining to do when it comes to why Therrien hasn't gone to what has worked in the past.

 

 

There's definitely something a little more tentative and less aggressive with him right now.  Part of that is the position most likely, maybe he's fighting a nagging injury, I'm not sure and I'm not sure it matters.  If he does anything aggressive it's trying to spring TK and hope JVR comes up with rebound or something, but here's the thing I noticed in the last two games at least:  He's not necessarily trying to score goals or points.  He's trying to win.  And I'm not sure he's trying to just win games, but I think he's thinking about the whole season.  

 

If they're up by a goal or two, Giroux's going to do exactly nothing to risk that lead.  He's playing extremely conservatively.  Part of that may have to do with being sick or banged up or frankly as a Dad myself I can say sometimes spending 9 days at home with a tiny baby is more exhausting than I could have ever imagined.  

 

No matter what it is, there may be something a little off with him, but I think that's just pushing him to put his focus on the fundamentals of executing AV's system exactingly. 

 

This team is full of ghosts

 

GHOST the defenseman

GHOST powperplay

GHOST captain....

 

And now, the always popular and always present

 

GHOST injury

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

He's not necessarily trying to score goals or points.  He's trying to win.  And I'm not sure he's trying to just win games, but I think he's thinking about the whole season.  

 

If they're up by a goal or two, Giroux's going to do exactly nothing to risk that lead.  He's playing extremely conservatively.  Part of that may have to do with being sick or banged up or frankly as a Dad myself I can say sometimes spending 9 days at home with a tiny baby is more exhausting than I could have ever imagined.  

 

No matter what it is, there may be something a little off with him, but I think that's just pushing him to put his focus on the fundamentals of executing AV's system exactingly. 

 

I can appreciate the "new kid" thing - but he is being paid $8+M to do this job and that's a little more than you or I or most people in that situation are.

 

Hire a nanny

 

I think part of the fans' issue is that it's been quite a while since we've seen him assert himself or take over a game. I appreciate the "wants to win" aspect and playing conservatively when they get a lead.

 

I just don't think that mindset will work in the playoffs.

 

People - fans and coach - want to see the "best player" be the straw that stirs the drink. That means doing the little things to protect a lead, but it also means doing the big things to get one.

 

If they miss the playoffs and/or bow out in the first round again with him not being a presence on the scoresheet, it's only going to get worse for him.

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, CoachX said:

GHOST injury

 

This guy's been on the team for years. There was an entire season (16-17) of Giroux being "100%" that ended with him saying he was still recovering from injury all year and needed to heal up.

 

See also, too: Simmonds, Wayne and Streit, Mark

 

Guys going out and playing like crap because they can't play to the level they are expected to play don't help anybody.

Edited February 4, 2020 by radoran

[King Knut]

2 minutes ago, CoachX said:

This team is full of ghosts

 

GHOST the defenseman

GHOST powperplay

GHOST captain....

 

And now, the always popular and always present

 

GHOST injury

 

I think you missed my point.  They're winning.  They're currently on pace for 100 points.  

 

Usually my measure of a captain (especially of a somewhat talented team) is whether they're winning.

They're winning. 

 

He's doing his job.  

 

I want goals, you want goals, I'm sure he wants goals.  I want wins more and I think he's doing what the coach wants him to.

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, radoran said:

If they miss the playoffs and/or bow out in the first round again with him not being a presence on the scoresheet, it's only going to get worse for him.

 

This is no doubt true, but I can almost guarantee you, what we're seeing right now is Claude prioritizing exactly what AV is asking him to prioritize.

 

  

[Podein25]

31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I want goals, you want goals, I'm sure he wants goals

 

Sure goals are nice, but what about sheep?

[King Knut]

29 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Sure goals are nice, but what about sheep?

 

They're 7-2-1 in their last ten.

 

They keep winning, and I will baaah all the way to the playoffs while y'all keep whining about ghost captains and goals and needing help on offense. 

 

Their only goal is to win games.  They are executing a very specific plan of how to do that. 

It's working.  They're playing AV's game and it's working. 

 

I think it's great and intelligent and totally legit to be concerned about them being able to break out and score big goals when the team really needs it.  Right now, they're working on their system... the idea behind which is very simply to not need that big goal.  

 

Let's see if they can execute against the Devils.

Then comes the biggest 7 games stretch of the season.  Likely the stretch of games that will decide if they make it to the playoffs or not. 

 

Rubber meets the road then, but I genuinely look at the last few games and see a team working on the fundamental of its system gearing up for that stretch.  

 

If you look at the last three games, even the Penguins game, they've controlled large swaths of play in the game.  Most of the goals against them have been either kind of flukey or due to someone specific blowing coverage or missing a clear.    That's their goal.  Not to out score in a free for all.  Their goal is to control these games.  They look like they're getting good at it.  Next week stuff gets real.  

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

Sure goals are nice, but what about sheep?

 

Oh we know you know how to score some sheep...

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

Then comes the biggest 7 games stretch of the season.

 

I sure hope Bob doesn't come back to haunt the Flyers like he always has.

 

His number as of right now are 3.25 gaa 898% that is as pedestrian as any Flyer fan could hope for to have to face.

 

They faced him earlier this year and Hart got chased after giving up 4 goals on 18 shots and Bob posted a 946% and gave up 2 goals on 37 shots.

 

They have to find away to solve this guy and stop letting him be a thorn in their sides.

 

Not trying to look a head because they need to beat the Devils and Caps as well but i am tired of seeing that guy cost them points/games.

 

They play them twice more this year and i would love to win both. They need both of those games to stay ahead of the Canes and Isles.

 

Keep winning and the 3rd spot in the Metro is there for the taking because they get to play the Blue Jackets too twice the following week.

 

It's all in front of them and they can control their destiny. Just win baby!

[OccamsRazor]

Blue Jackets won but Canes and Panthers lost.

[Freddy the 13th]

The Redwings fans should not be ashamed, this was bound to happen at some point, this is just a result of making the playoffs for 25 years straight and all those Stanley cups.  Larkin is awesome to watch.

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I sure hope Bob doesn't come back to haunt the Flyers like he always has.

 

His number as of right now are 3.25 gaa 898% that is as pedestrian as any Flyer fan could hope for to have to face.

 

They faced him earlier this year and Hart got chased after giving up 4 goals on 18 shots and Bob posted a 946% and gave up 2 goals on 37 shots.

 

They have to find away to solve this guy and stop letting him be a thorn in their sides.

 

Not trying to look a head because they need to beat the Devils and Caps as well but i am tired of seeing that guy cost them points/games.

 

They play them twice more this year and i would love to win both. They need both of those games to stay ahead of the Canes and Isles.

 

Keep winning and the 3rd spot in the Metro is there for the taking because they get to play the Blue Jackets too twice the following week.

 

It's all in front of them and they can control their destiny. Just win baby!

 

 

I mean can you blame him?  All he did was kick butt, promise to get even better and we traded him and his RFA contract to Columbus.  

COLUMBUS.  

 

These next 8 games will pretty much decide the season.  The good news is that this time last year, the Flyers needed to win 3/4 of the games and everyone else needed to essentially lose at least a majority of their games.  This year if the Flyers keep winning at the pace they're at, they should be in good shape.  

 

These teams are all going to start playing each other more now too.  It would help if they stopped going to OT as much, but that seems to be the way of the NHL and the Metro these days.  This is going to be a huge challenge and we can't get too down on them if they lose one or two, but if they pull out 2/3-3/4 of them, they'll be doing what they need to.