Flyers 2023 Entry Level Draft - 7th overall (confirmed)

[SCFlyguy]

12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

But honestly Chuck's drafts have been better than Ron's (but Chuck did trade a 1st 2 years ago so hard to judge that one) and well chose York over Caulfield some will say.

If you looked at Hextall’s drafts + 2-3 years they looked incredible.  None of Fletcher’s picks have accomplished a thing yet.

Edited May 24, 2023 by SCFlyguy

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

If you looked at Hextall’s drafts + 2-3 years they looked incredible.

 

You talking about the two 1st round picks a lot Flyers fans bitch about and want gone because they didn't wear a stupid shirt for pregame skate or shocked they signed to 8 overpaid year contracts too?

 

Sanheim and Provorov yeah so sweeet. Or the average goalie many say you can't even get some nice for in a trade??

 

Sure Konecny is nice. But incredible come bro for real?? No.

 

A'ight maybe...

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

shocked they signed to 8 overpaid year contracts too?

 

 

Who signed them to those contracts? Like I need to ask. 

 

BOTH those players were good at one time. Better than good. Then, whatever it is that happens when you become a Flyer, happened. 

 

Philly has to get better at drafting. They also have to get better at developing. Because they developed Provorov AND Sanheim into terrible. 

 

I doubt playing with Yandle/Ristolainen/Deangelo helped either one of them in their game....

 

The best chance Fletchers draft picks have that Hextalls didn't, is they won't have to develop under Chuckie and what he thinks makes a good team. Briere will hopefully get some quality around them instead of "what can we get from Minnesota"? 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by flyercanuck

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

Because they developed Provorov AND Sanheim into terrible. 

 

Did we really going to put all of it on the Flyers??

 

Crazy that in the military (or atleast when i was in) - you never ever heard really much of drill instructors being blamed for ****** recruits.

 

Sure they were told to not put hands on them anymore but damn sometimes when you soft and not smart enough at what you do then at what point is it on you??

 

Is it the staff that turned off Rubstov playmaking and scoring touch???

 

I'm just saying in today society we seem to always someone else for our issues.....never looking in the mirror and finding heart to do something.

 

Point being is it really on the Flyer's i don't know we'll see after Andrea, Brink, Foerster and Desnoyers come up by then we'll have a clearer picture ........right?

 

One thing is for sure they don't have to to bust right now at all...

 

 

[flyercanuck]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

Did we really going to put all of it on the Flyers??

 

Crazy that in the military (or atleast when i was in) - you never ever heard really much of drill instructors being blamed for ****** recruits.

 

Sure they were told to not put hands on them anymore but damn sometimes when you soft and not smart enough at what you do then at what point is it on you??

 

Is it the staff that turned off Rubstov playmaking and scoring touch???

 

I'm just saying in today society we seem to always someone else for our issues.....never looking in the mirror and finding heart to do something.

 

Point being is it really on the Flyer's i don't know we'll see after Andrea, Brink, Foerster and Desnoyers come up by then we'll have a clearer picture ........right?

 

One thing is for sure they don't have to to bust right now at all...

 

 

 

Rubstov was a bust. Plain and simple. No argument here.

 

Provorov led the league in goals and played solid D..he was our best dman. 

 

Then Sanheim was Phillys best defenceman not that long ago too. 

 

Konecny was on his way up, then flopped....then regained his game.

 

Hart, same thing.

 

What is it that turns good solid players into garbage? I have no clue...but it sure happens to Flyers way more than it used to.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Did we really going to put all of it on the Flyers??

 

Crazy that in the military (or atleast when i was in) - you never ever heard really much of drill instructors being blamed for ****** recruits.

 

Sure they were told to not put hands on them anymore but damn sometimes when you soft and not smart enough at what you do then at what point is it on you??

 

Is it the staff that turned off Rubstov playmaking and scoring touch???

 

I'm just saying in today society we seem to always someone else for our issues.....never looking in the mirror and finding heart to do something.

 

Point being is it really on the Flyer's i don't know we'll see after Andrea, Brink, Foerster and Desnoyers come up by then we'll have a clearer picture ........right?

 

One thing is for sure they don't have to to bust right now at all...

 

 

Drill instructors--and the military in general--have some more disciplinary tools available to them, but yeah.

 

I know the ultimate responsibility is the players and your comments about society in general are spot on.   But I think there's enough evidence at this point to suggest that our player "development" process is anything but.   As a manager and a leader -- and as a managment culture -- you really can undo the skills and, in particular, work ethic of your subordinates.  It's more common than you might think and not particularly new.

 

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I doubt playing with Yandle/Ristolainen/Deangelo helped either one of them in their game....

 

Sure i won't deny it didn't help (PTSD and all)...let's just hope Danny can get them back to playing fun to watch hockey...last real fun hockey i remember even watching and enjoying to the max...

 

 

...sure they never won anything. 

 

I will never forget being in Hilton Head (where Messier lives a lot and where his parents retired too) on vacation on the playoff run and wearing my Flyers jersey and everywhere i went it was  always happy people screaming at me "Let's go Flyers!!!" and my wife was loving it she was blown away how many people recognized the T-shirt.

 

I love the South growing with the love for hockey but i ain't going to lie never would have thought in 2001 the Canes, Lightning (3) and even Ducks for that matter would all win a Cup before the Flyers.

 

Just want to win again.

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure i won't deny it didn't help (PTSD and all)...let's just hope Danny can get them back to playing fun to watch hockey...last real fun hockey i remember even watching and enjoying to the max...

 

 

...sure they never won anything. 

 

I will never forget being in Hilton Head (where Messier lives a lot and where his parents retired too) on vacation on the playoff run and wearing my Flyers jersey and everywhere i went it was  always happy people screaming at me "Let's go Flyers!!!" and my wife was loving it she was blown away how many people recognized the T-shirt.

 

I love the South growing with the love for hockey but i ain't going to lie never would have thought in 2001 the Canes, Lightning (3) and even Ducks for that matter would all win a Cup before the Flyers.

 

Just want to win again.

 

Me too. I've loved it since I was 3 or 4 years old. Finally had to stop playing about a year ago. About 6 months after I HAD to stop watching the Flyers.

 

I'll start watching them again this fall though. 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Drill instructors--and the military in general--have some more disciplinary tools available to them, but yeah.

 

Yeah but it is...then ultimate is they will put your ass out with a dishonorable discharge on your ass in a minute that usually makes them push through and find a damn way thought that works isn't that basically accountability???? 

 

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 But I think there's enough evidence at this point to suggest that our player "development" process is anything but.

 

 

Maybe but i also we are still collecting data on Chucks draft picks (because that was the start of the convo right?)

 

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 As a manager and a leader -- and as a managment culture -- you really can undo the skills and, in particular, work ethic of your subordinates.

 

And i am in no absolving them either just saying we are still judging Chucks draft picks.

 

And how much of this is on Lappy and the guys below.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

Me too. I've loved it since I was 3 or 4 years old.

 

 

Had i been exposed in my youth down here i am sure i would have played some.

 

But i only played football, baseball and soccer. Must have been hard to walk away...until you stop aching and can see why lol.

[SCFlyguy]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You talking about the two 1st round picks a lot Flyers fans bitch about and want gone because they didn't wear a stupid shirt for pregame skate or shocked they signed to 8 overpaid year contracts too?

 

Sanheim and Provorov yeah so sweeet. Or the average goalie many say you can't even get some nice for in a trade??

 

Sure Konecny is nice. But incredible come bro for real?? No.

 

A'ight maybe...

I'm saying I could probably go back to 2019 and find a bunch of posts of you excited about Hextall's picks.  For Fletcher's picks, it's too early to tell is all.  You're comparing a fully baked cake (a la John Stevens) to some unmixed ingredients.

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

You're comparing a fully baked cake (a la John Stevens) to some unmixed ingredients.

 

Just come back and say you were wrong about Chuck's draft picks is all you need to worry about.

 

So we have to wait now to claim them a success but you are allowed to tell us how bad it can get or will be before it does??

 

Whatever...

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Had i been exposed in my youth down here i am sure i would have played some.

 

But i only played football, baseball and soccer. Must have been hard to walk away...until you stop aching and can see why lol.

 

I miss it every day. Not just playing, but going out for beers after and having a bunch of laughs. I tried to quit the year before and got talked into it. 

[radoran]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Is it the staff that turned off Rubstov playmaking and scoring touch???

 

2016 was a terrible draft. Look at all the players around the 22nd pick and Tage Thompson has JUST emerged seven years later and 20 other teams "missed."

 

The chances that Thompson's career arc matches any time in Philadelphia are slim.

 

The problem is picking 22nd having not actually achieved very much of anything to get there. If you're relying on hitting on a 20+ star player the Flyers had that and tried to build a franchise around him.

 

A superstar is a different thing.

 

"Missing" on Rubustov means little in the grand scheme of things.

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah but it is...then ultimate is they will put your ass out with a dishonorable discharge on your ass in a minute that usually makes them push through and find a damn way thought that works isn't that basically accountability???? 

 

 

 

Maybe but i also we are still collecting data on Chucks draft picks (because that was the start of the convo right?)

 

 

And i am in no absolving them either just saying we are still judging Chucks draft picks.

 

And how much of this is on Lappy and the guys below.

Fair.

 

You know, I want to point at Lappy, and I think it's hard to absolve him.  I want to say he was demonstrably terrible at the NHL level, but we also thought Hakstol was demonstrably terrible. 

 

The other thing I want to consider is how bad the medical staff was up until this past year.  Relevant?   Maybe not.  But maybe.   All reports coming out talk about how terrible it was.   I mean we've seen the malpractice as it applies to several players and repeated injuries.   But does this (i don't actually know; does it?) also apply in realms of conditioning, nutrition, etc.  It just seems the organization itself was cancerous and made coaches successful elsewhere terrible here and players whose careers began with promise become increasingly terrible over time; some to resurrect once they move elsewhere.

 

With both coaches and players, the resurrection phenomena is just too consistent to not think something here -- I'm guessing systemically -- is killing people's will to live.

 

Again  we're all responsible for our own performance--or should be.   But something outside of simply players or coaches was (or is) rotten at its core.

 

I think we're each talking about slightly different aspects here  so I want to be clear I really do agree with your points.  And I dislike Chuck, but I also agree we don't know yet about his picks.  There were some I was "meh" about in real time that could still turn out well. Time will tell.

 

If they do turn out well, it's not going to stop the question (an impossible one to answer):  would they have succeeded had the Fletcher regime remained?

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

And I dislike Chuck, but I also agree we don't know yet about his picks.

 

Yes we don't but gauging some of the fans many want to move on from Ron's picks at even barely a good offer.

 

Not all but quite a few and I slightly shocked.

 

But I am wanting to rebuild so if that is what it takes so be it.

[radoran]

28 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Not all but quite a few and I slightly shocked.

 

The issue for many is turning a page.

 

There's a whole group with the stink of the past 5-7 years on them that didn't flee to Ottawa.

 

I think fans are ready to see the players under 25 and not worry whether the Couturiers and Atilkinsons can get them over the hump.

[ctid]

https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2023/05/01/washington-capitals-sign-ivan-miroshnichenko-to-three-year-entry-level-contract/

 

Washington just got their Russian prospect out of his KHL deal early...Just saying, it is not impossible to get Michkov out.

 

 

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, ctid said:

https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2023/05/01/washington-capitals-sign-ivan-miroshnichenko-to-three-year-entry-level-contract/

 

Washington just got their Russian prospect out of his KHL deal early...Just saying, it is not impossible to get Michkov out.

 

 

No, but it helps to have the Kremlin-whisperer, Ovechkin, involved.

[ctid]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

No, but it helps to have the Kremlin-whisperer, Ovechkin, involved.

Good point.

[OccamsRazor]

10 hours ago, radoran said:

2016 was a terrible draft.

 

Crazy right after what many claim to be the best 1st round ever in 2015. But it happens sometimes it is better to trade all the way out of a round.

 

We'll just pretend because we don't know otherwise that they tried and couldn't makes for a better story.

 

10 hours ago, radoran said:

The chances that Thompson's career arc matches any time in Philadelphia are slim.

 

Yeah would've had some freak accident or career ened by migraines anywyas knowing their luck the main reason i ain't tempting fate by selecting Michov if he falls hell no take the next best player let some else roll that dice.

 

10 hours ago, radoran said:

The problem is picking 22nd having not actually achieved very much of anything to get there.

 

Which i think right where they go back to drafting after this upcoming season somewhere between 18 and 22nd sounds about right.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ctid said:

https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2023/05/01/washington-capitals-sign-ivan-miroshnichenko-to-three-year-entry-level-contract/

 

Washington just got their Russian prospect out of his KHL deal early...Just saying, it is not impossible to get Michkov out.

 

 

 

I'm sure AO hadn't nothing to with helping grease some palms with his buddy Putin either just strange luck too.

 

Flyers won't have such luck - i'm not taking the kid sorry...

[GratefulFlyers]

21 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Flyers won't have such luck - i'm not taking the kid sorry...

 

Not unless the exit visa is signed sealed and delivered (plus whatever else...payoffs made, egos placated etc.) before June 28th start of the draft. And unless somehow the Flyers acquire exclusive knowledge of the arrangement he'll get scooped up before the Flyers pick 7th.

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Not unless the exit visa is signed sealed and delivered (plus whatever else...payoffs made, egos placated etc.) before June 28th start of the draft. And unless somehow the Flyers acquire exclusive knowledge of the arrangement he'll get scooped up before the Flyers pick 7th.

 

I don't trust them to let the kid out of his current contract that runs thru 25/26.

 

I just don't i'd rather take the next best player unless you can get a team like say the Blues who have 3rd 1st to deal to move up and take that chance.

 

Just for example Blues #10, Leafs 2nd in 2024 and Zachary Bolduc for the chance to take Michkov.

 

I'm making this trade for the Flyer rebuild.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Not unless the exit visa is signed sealed and delivered and the plane is off the ground and out of Russian airspace.

And preferrably on US soil.