Official…Keith Jones named President of Hockey Operations

[Cheesesteak]

9 minutes ago, Cheesesteak said:

Look guys and gals,

coming from someone who has been watching hockey since the late 80s, at first just the playoffs, then since the Lindros/LeClair era for real and at some point I played EA sports NHL which made watching hockey SO much better since I learned some of the rules, like icing and offsides.  Before EA sports I'd always wonder why the hell they would just stop the game, in my eyes "for no reason" haha.  I learned to follow the puck a bit better too, which also helped, and I've loved watching ever since then.   

I got a bit off track, haha...all the above to say, I've been watching a long time and I still don't know that much about the inner-workings of the game sad to say but I still love it, up until the past few seasons.

 

I don't know how Jonesy and Briere are going to do, no one does, BUT, it's a start. 

 

We ALL wished from Fletch to be gone, and he is.  Take solace in that.   

We are still two years from two years away but it's certain that in four years, they will be better off then the direction they were going.

With these hires, at least it wasn't the same people that hired Chuck.

 

EDIT...and think how pissed off you'd be if they hired Olczk LOL I would've been.

 

Their course has changed and it HAS to be better.  

 

And if not, I'll be right where I am now, disinterested and unengaged in the game on the ice. 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Cheesesteak
not sure why my edit made a new post

[OccamsRazor]

35 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

"And like Briere, Jones is another former Flyer. He’s part of the club, in other words, that tends to have strong beliefs regarding the way the Flyers should be built and play. Jones is a knowledgeable hockey guy, but anyone who has watched locally televised Flyers games for the last half-decade and noted his love of players like Rasmus Ristolainen (long before the Flyers traded for him) will know that he’s very much a Hockey Guy in the traditional sense. For all his strengths as a candidate and a person, he’s not exactly going to be bringing a fresh, outsider perspective to the brain trust mix."

 

Take FWIW .... 

 

Well damn.

 

I'm holding out he just didn't want to damage Flyer assets on live TV.

 

Especially after all the dust up a few years back when he had the hit mic and was talking between intermission about how bad Dale Weise was and they needed to get rid of him and a few other players (can't remember who else).

 

Otherwise yeah that is all I got.

[radoran]

I'll just add in a IIRC because I might not and don't particularly care to litigate it.

 

Point is largely that Jonsey's been on the payroll since he... Wasn't on the payroll.

 

I'll judge by actions going forward not what might have been said in the past.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

I'll judge by actions going forward not what might have been said in the past.

 

Me. Too.

 

Say what ever they want the proof will be in the pudding.

 

I get it talk is cheap.

 

 

Show me the money!!!!

 

Anything less than a Cup will be a failure.

[CoachX]

Jones is getting looked at through a microscope for the things he's said about players, while being an analyst for the team. That almost always means he is going to put a positve spin on it. I'm not saying he's lying, I'm saying he wasn't analyzing the negatives. I've always thought Flyer broadcasters were some of the most neutral and fair I've lasted to. Center Ice exposed me to Jackoff Edwards in Boston. I've had PTSD ever since

 

Anyway, my point is, don't base your worries about future performance on statements from the past. Specifically when it's the person's job to serve up the Kool aid

 

 

Oh....as a side note, I fckn hate Scott Laughton

 

No charge

Edited May 17, 2023 by CoachX

[Cheesesteak]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

I'll just add in a IIRC because I might not and don't particularly care to litigate it.

 

Point is largely that Jonsey's been on the payroll since he... Wasn't on the payroll.

 

I'll judge by actions going forward not what might have been said in the past.

*IDKWTFIIRCM but, to add if I may,

 

there's a HUGE difference between being ON the payroll and the one signing the checks. 

 

 

*(I Don't Know What The Fudgsicle IIRC means)

[flyercanuck]

8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

and noted his love of players like Rasmus Ristolainen (long before the Flyers traded for him)

 

This isn't sticking up for a Flyer asset...this is bad judgement. 

[radoran]

On 5/16/2023 at 11:33 PM, Cheesesteak said:

*(I Don't Know What The Fudgsicle IIRC means)

 

If I Recall Correctly

 

On 5/16/2023 at 11:33 PM, Cheesesteak said:

there's a HUGE difference between being ON the payroll and the one signing the checks. 

 

Sho'nuff.

[GratefulFlyers]

Well there's nothing "advanced" about Ristolainen's game except the downhill trajectory it's been on since his first few seasons in Buffalo. If Jones is sincere about wanting an "advanced back end" (whatever that means exactly) then the Flyers have no business keeping Ristolainen around.

 

 

[CoachX]

I haven't been able to get on the site for about 24 hours. Did something happen?

[CoachX]

in an interview KJ was asked:

 

What have you seen from him over the last couple of months that makes him (DB) the guy?

 

his response: No. 1, he just has a very keen sense of what this organization needs moving forward. He knows where some changes need to be made, because he’s come up through the system. He’s Really watched everything. He’s interacted with those in our organization that are making key decisions. We have a really big job in front of us, and our amateur scouting is going to be gigantic in this process, probably bigger than any other department that we have. He’s very familiar with all of those guys, what they do, what they represent, what their strengths are, and maybe in some cases what their weaknesses are. I trust that he’s been very thorough in his evaluation because of his inside look at what’s going on here.

That that gives me great confidence that he’s going to do a outstanding job.....

 

I'm humoring myself with reading between the lines. I admit I don't really have a clue, but I found this answer interesting. First, coming up through the system has no real bearing on who is on the roster today. So I took this to mean changes need to made away from the ice. He then goes on to address scouting specifically. Of course there is an old dinosaur ex-flyer in charge of that. Then there are 5 ex-flyers in Player Development roles. My point? I think this answer from KJ means that he, DB, and Torts will be running the show, have the backing of the boss, and won't be taking input from the death squad. I still don't know that it means they will be any better, but any change is better than what is currently happening

[GratefulFlyers]

Well-said @CoachX. We’re all trying to read the tea leaves and I know I’m getting impatient for some actual specifics about the roster. I know, the playoffs are only halfway through and nothing will happen till there’s a Cup winner. But if the new management crew really wants to get Flyers’ fans interested in the team again the sooner we hear something real the better.

[pilldoc]

40 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I haven't been able to get on the site for about 24 hours. Did something happen?

 

Yes ...site was down for about 24 hours.  All is good now.

 

thank you for your patience.....

[CoachX]

15 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

Yes ...site was down for about 24 hours.  All is good now.

 

thank you for your patience.....

Whew! I was worried you'd had enough of me and decided to boot my azz out this time

[OccamsRazor]

20 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

If Jones is sincere about wanting an "advanced back end" (whatever that means exactly) then the Flyers have no business keeping Ristolainen around.

 

That is my think too. Now i know i haven't watched a lot of hockey this past brutal year but c'mon this guy would have had to have taken huge leaps and bounds from what i last saw of him.

 

Can we just say whatever and move him where ever and wish him good luck...like to an Anaheim Ducks club who could use some defensemen and well have plenty of cap space to burn?? I don't even care what comes back just move that contract...

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

I don't even care what comes back just move that contract...

 

Yeah me neither - I don't care - the return isn't as important as getting Ristolainen out of Philly. How can the Flyers expect to get younger and faster with a neanderthal on the blue line skating 18min every night? I'm no fan of DeAngelo but at least he can skate.

[mojo1917]

3 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Yeah me neither - I don't care - the return isn't as important as getting Ristolainen out of Philly. How can the Flyers expect to get younger and faster with a neanderthal on the blue line skating 18min every night? I'm no fan of DeAngelo but at least he can skate.

Both players would need to be on reduced contracts and sheltered minutes to play on a winning hockey team.

It can't be done, but Risto @ 3.2.aav would be fine by me. 5.1 is too much for what's become a one dimensional player. 

DeAngelo can kick rocks. He was the 3rd worst defenseman in the league. 3rd worst, That means there were 177 dudes in the league who were better at defense than him. If he were an EPL team he would be relegated.

I'd pay half his salary to have him play somewhere else. 

[radoran]

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He was the 3rd worst defenseman in the league. 3rd worst, That means there were 177 dudes in the league who were better at defense than him.

 

And had a major problem with being scratched.

 

No, really.

 

The Flyers spent seven draft picks and two players to acquire two of the worst defensemen in the league.

 

As an "upgrade."

 

[GratefulFlyers]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

The Flyers spent seven draft picks and two players to acquire two of the worst defensemen in the league.

 

As an "upgrade."

haha that would be funny, right? I mean As If! 
 

but seriously @mojo1917 it isn’t Ristolainen’s salary or cap hit that makes him such a terrible defenseman - though of course I understand your point - but honestly even at league minimum as a 7th D-man he shouldn’t be part of the Flyers going forward. 
 

Guys have proposed moving TK and even Hart in service of the rebuild. That’s definitely one way to go but I think the most obviously deficient players like Hayes, Ristolainen and DeAngelo (who can skate btw ) need to go first. Prune the dead wood and then we can consider maximizing returns by trading some of the good players.

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

That’s definitely one way to go but I think the most obviously deficient players like Hayes, Ristolainen and DeAngelo

 

I hope Danny can find traction at the draft i would love to at least move Hayes and TDA.

 

But he is going to have his work cut out moving this dude...

 

[radoran]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Guys have proposed moving TK and even Hart in service of the rebuild. That’s definitely one way to go but I think the most obviously deficient players like Hayes, Ristolainen and DeAngelo (who can skate btw ) need to go first. Prune the dead wood and then we can consider maximizing returns by trading some of the good players.

 

TDA will be gone by attrition before the team is anywhere near competition. If they can get anything for him while retaining salary next season, it's a bonus.

 

Spoiler: they're not getting a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th for him because no team has yet hired Chuck Fletcher.

 

Ristolainen has four years on his $5.1M per deal. IMO, that's a bigger challenge than Hextall moving VLC.

 

Spoiler: they're not getting a 1st, 2 2nds, and a 7th for him because no team has yet hired Chuck Fletcher.

 

I'm all for pruning dead wood, but the garden is in such a state of disrepair that all avenues need to be addressed. Don't walk away from opportunity just because they're not going in the "right order".

Edited May 19, 2023 by radoran

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said:

but seriously @mojo1917 it isn’t Ristolainen’s salary or cap hit that makes him such a terrible defenseman -

I thought Ristolainen improved significantly from the start of the season.

We view the value of the player differently. Under the right circumstances I would be fine for him playing on my team.

I think he's got some pretty okay tools, long reach, he can still skate pretty well, when he's not loading up for and missing a big hit, he's serviceable as a bottom pair guy.

Shaw & Co appear to have gotten through to him as the season progressed, he was playing more minutes and was not a black hole of suck-itude. 

To me that $5.1m .aav x now 4 years is where we agree, that's an immovable contract until the salary cap goes up and he is not living up to that middle pairing salary.

 

 

 

[radoran]

34 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think he's got some pretty okay tools, long reach, he can still skate pretty well, when he's not loading up for and missing a big hit, he's serviceable as a bottom pair guy.

 

Right, I think the "terrible" aspect of him is where he's being asked/expected to play.

 

Does he have "Nick Seeler" value at $755K for a bottom pair guy who can play low minutes and have some upside? Sure.

 

He's just not that guy.

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I thought Ristolainen improved significantly from the start of the season.

We view the value of the player differently.

 

 

Wish i had watched enough to agree or dispute that but i haven't.

 

However i had read somewhere about a month before the season ended someone, i forget who said he had made strides of improvement. (i said this part but when you are the floor you have no choice but to rise!?!?!).

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by OccamsRazor

[mojo1917]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

However i had read somewhere about a month before the season ended someone, i forget who said he had made strides of improvement. (i said this part but when you are the floor you have no choice but to rise!?!?!).

Charlie O'Connor for one.

Charlie's commentary and views on players is heavily influenced by analytics. 

The numbers for Risto since December were mostly alright. This year it was Sanhiem dragging him down.

And you're right he started the season terribly, so there was little to do but improve, and he did.

 

His game will never be my favorite, I'd prefer an outlet pass to chipping it off the glass 80% of the time and when he whiffs on a hit, it usually leads to a grade A scoring chance for the opposition. That said, he's not a complete garbage player (like Tony DeAngleo) which is general sentiment around here.