Flyers Sign Garnett Hathaway

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Definitely prefer Hathaway in the line up to JVR. 

 

Flyers won that walking away.

 

I don't care if JVR played for free Flyers still win that trade off.

[mojo1917]

7 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Well considering 95% of his staff are ex-Flyers.....

So?

That's not an automatic disqualifier.

It shouldn't be at least.

Can the person do the job? 

We will see.

 

The knee jerk reaction to Patrick Sharps's hire was ****** ridiculous. 

The automatic assumption  that a former player can't be successful in another role is dumb as well.

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

56 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

So?

That's not an automatic disqualifier.

It shouldn't be at least.

Can the person do the job? 

We will see.

 

The knee jerk reaction to Patrick Sharps's hire was ****** ridiculous. 

The automatic assumption  that a former player can't be successful in another role is dumb as well.

 

 

 

Flyers should for Sharp and bring in Matt Ellison.  Definitely an upgrade.

[mojo1917]

9 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I don't think anyone hates or has knives drawn for Briere. What I think some are upset about is that we have a GM that says that they're going to play young players, yet they make moves to fill spots with veterans, so that the young players don't get a chance. And the veterans they sign? They're players that one would expect Bobby Clarke, Paul Holmgren and Schmuck Felcher would have targeted. Why do they insist to sign crap to fill roles? The management of this team talks a good talk, and then when it comes time to deliver, it's the same disappointing player types they sign. It's as if this franchise just can't help themselves.

I'm wondering if the Flyers bottom six type guys need some mentoring?

I'm also wondering if the organization has the right "kind" of, or "desired by KJ & DB" players for those spots.

There really isn't a Hathaway type guy on the roster, he adds  some offense to go with his wheels and sandpaper. Nor do I see a banger like him in the system pushing for a role. Maybe Wisdom ? Most of our bottom six guys are there because they don't have the ability to play farther up in the lineup.

The team needs to have guys with high compete levels. That's Hathaway. 

As far as Poehling... I'm seeing 1 year- maybe he sticks,  he is fast... if he doesn't start to put it together in the NHL, he doesn't need resigned. 

If he does, he's cheap & fits with the new crew / core. 

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Flyers should fire Sharp and bring in Matt Ellison.  Definitely an upgrade.

 

#Typo

[flyercanuck]

11 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

So?

That's not an automatic disqualifier.

It shouldn't be at least.

Can the person do the job? 

We will see.

 

The knee jerk reaction to Patrick Sharps's hire was ****** ridiculous. 

The automatic assumption  that a former player can't be successful in another role is dumb as well.

 

 

 

 

It shouldn't be an automatic disqualifier, no.

 

It also shouldn't be the main reason you hire people (Did anyone on here get hired because you were qualified, or because you'd never done anything like that before and your employer said "Here's your paycheck and we will see whether you're any good" ? ) , which is exactly what they've been doing on the Flyers for decades and decades and decades....or about as long as they've gone without winning a cup.

 

But that's just a coincidence. So let's just keep on hiring the exact same way....it's got us where we are  This isn't about Patrick Sharp, ...it's about having a pool of potential hockey minds that reaches outside of ex-Flyers. 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by flyercanuck

[radoran]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

It also shouldn't be the main reason you hire people

 

If "the main reason" they hired Sharp was that he's a "former Flyer" then you have a point.

 

To blithely ignore the rest of his resume is not helpful.

 

This isn't hiring your former teammates. These guys didn't play together.

 

And until they've put the worst coach, worst GM, and average player into the Hall of Fame I'll give them some leeway while we see where this goes.

 

At the very least it's different from "go for it and spend to the cap" every year while winning one playoff round in a decade.

[jammer2]

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

If "the main reason" they hired Sharp was that he's a "former Flyer" then you have a point.

 

To blithely ignore the rest of his resume is not helpful.

 

This isn't hiring your former teammates. These guys didn't play together.

 

And until they've put the worst coach, worst GM, and average player into the Hall of Fame I'll give them some leeway while we see where this goes.

 

At the very least it's different from "go for it and spend to the cap" every year while winning one playoff round in a decade.

You and FC both have valid points. I'm more than willing to give anyone a chance, judge on a results based criteria over a fair amount of time. It is however fair to ask just how far the scope of this search went. It does not feel like an earth scorching search went on here...but don't our prospects deserve the very best of the best from a development standpoint? Perhaps a huge search for the perfect person went on, but from the outside looking in...it feels lazy. 

[CoachX]

25 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

If "the main reason" they hired Sharp was that he's a "former Flyer" then you have a point.

 

This isn't hiring your former teammates. These guys didn't play together.

How about, they hired KJ who is a former Flyer, who hired his buddy Sharp who he worked with as a broadcaster

 

As eluded to, the issue is hiring a person because of your personal connections, not their abilities. It isn't as simple as playing together. It is also playing for

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Perhaps a huge search for the perfect person went on, but from the outside looking in...it feels lazy. 

 

Lazy is just looking around the room and making Laperriere your AHL coach.

 

Given that Briere hadn't played with Sharp what's his motivation beyond the qualifications of a two time Stanley Cup winner from a winning franchise with coaching experience?

 

[radoran]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

How about, they hired KJ who is a former Flyer, who hired his buddy Sharp who he worked with as a broadcaster

So we've now moved away from the "former Flyers" realm and into "former broadcasters" which is at least a horse of a different color.

 

 

Look, I'm not entirely disagreeing. I'm saying I'll wait and see what actually happens.

 

Sharp has some coaching experience as well as his broadcaster and playing background.

 

I'm not entirely pleased with "Jonesy" getting OJT and the process of that selection..

 

I've called out the "best available of the former Flyers they interviewed".

 

But this is at least a new bunch of potential stiffs that has a chance to go in some new directions and they appear to be serious about it.

[jammer2]

13 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Lazy is just looking around the room and making Laperriere your AHL coach.

 

Given that Briere hadn't played with Sharp what's his motivation beyond the qualifications of a two time Stanley Cup winner from a winning franchise with coaching experience?

 

Just suspicious based on the past, but totally willing to judge based on results over a fair amount of time. 

[ruxpin]

39 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

If "the main reason" they hired Sharp was that he's a "former Flyer" then you have a point.

 

To blithely ignore the rest of his resume is not helpful.

 

This isn't hiring your former teammates. These guys didn't play together.

 

And until they've put the worst coach, worst GM, and average player into the Hall of Fame I'll give them some leeway while we see where this goes.

 

At the very least it's different from "go for it and spend to the cap" every year while winning one playoff round in a decade.

 

Generally, this was my reaction to it.   But things I've read since (or later altered my interpretation) indicate that his role will be advising players and helping them learn to be professionals, model "winning" behaviors and attitudes, etc.   *IF* that is the case, I think he's qualified and it's clearly not something he learned in his season or whatever in Philly (though he was here on a pretty good team).

 

I like Leclair, but if he's here for similar I question that a little more.  From the outside I'm willing to buy he personally had/has a good work ethic and went about things the "right" way.  But his time here was a coaching carousel, "It's not my fault he got cancer," and "we mortgaged the farm on Him, f**k his lungs, his concussions, and his health."

 

If he learned and modeled the "right way" through all of that, he may want to consider the Headmaster job at Hogwarts.

[CoachX]

History is really the major influence here. If not for the obvious hiring decisions over decades, this would not be an issue. DB, KJ and PS are guilty by association. I think we all want them to do a good job, but it's hard to hold optimism when this practice has failed miserably and has yet to be successful. 

 

Just take Sam Morin hiring. This is a young kid who hadn't had a chance to accomplish anything else in life except playing the game. Right after it was finally decided his injuries ended his career, the Flyers hire him. I personally think it's commendable on their part, but it's obvious he doesn't have real world experience in the role they hired him for

[ruxpin]

I get the skepticism about Jones and share it. I've commented as much.

 

But if (IF!)  the separation of GM and President is similar to the separation of Head of State (President) and Commander in Chief (GM) I'm cautiously okay with it.

 

Pretending because how would I know? -- it seems Fletcher had become a joke in the league and was generally disliked.  I suspect this was other GMs and agents and probably players themselves.  As a result, he was having to add a second round pick as a trade just for a phone call.

 

I can understand why this was the case:  he's a douchebag.  

 

So, when searching for a replacement -- whether a hire or a sig other -- the tendency is to go for what was missing in the ex.  

 

Jones clearly doesn't have contacts experience, but I don't think he has to. It's Briere's department. He doesn't have a ton of experience either, obviously, but probably enough and he has staffers who do. He's not on an island.

 

Jones was uniquely positioned to know nearly everyone and was seemingly widely liked by everyone that previously threw moldy bologna at Chuck in the league commissary.   He's the "get the meeting" part of the sales team. Briere or combination will be the closer.

 

Sometimes when hiring for a leader, you're not looking for high technical ability. You've probably hired a staff based on ability. Sometimes you're looking for strength in areas of people and process; culture. Can they get the group  motivated, rowing in the same direction, and develop them.

 

Similar is true for the new advisors. Presumably, players were drafted because they showed the ability to play.  Let's develop that and get them to the next level as players and as people.

 

It remains to be seen whether it's successful here, but it's a valid approach. I'm onboard with seeing how it plays out.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

If "the main reason" they hired Sharp was that he's a "former Flyer" then you have a point.

 

To blithely ignore the rest of his resume is not helpful.

 

This isn't hiring your former teammates. These guys didn't play together.

 

And until they've put the worst coach, worst GM, and average player into the Hall of Fame I'll give them some leeway while we see where this goes.

 

At the very least it's different from "go for it and spend to the cap" every year while winning one playoff round in a decade.

 

I'm not sure why Patrick Sharp is the focus here, when a lot of the "new regime" are yet again, all ex-Flyers. 

 

I'm pretty sure Briere/Jones/Sharp/Nick Shultz/Dave Brown/ Ross Fitzpatrick/Sami Kapanen/John LeClair/Sam Morin/Mark Greig/Chris Stewart etc weren't all linemates...but they are all ex-Flyers.

 

Still happy Fletcher is gone. Still hoping they can build a winner. Just wishing they'd draw from a larger pool.

Edited July 3, 2023 by flyercanuck

[flyercanuck]

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

History is really the major influence here. If not for the obvious hiring decisions over decades, this would not be an issue. DB, KJ and PS are guilty by association. I think we all want them to do a good job, but it's hard to hold optimism when this practice has failed miserably and has yet to be successful. 

 

Just take Sam Morin hiring. This is a young kid who hadn't had a chance to accomplish anything else in life except playing the game. Right after it was finally decided his injuries ended his career, the Flyers hire him. I personally think it's commendable on their part, but it's obvious he doesn't have real world experience in the role they hired him for

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Sure it's great if you play for them you have a job for life. But so far, it has worked 0% building a champion.

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'm not sure why Patrick Sharp is the focus here, when a lot of the "new regime" are yet again, all ex-Flyers. 

 

I'm pretty sure Briere/Jones/Sharp/Nick Shultz/Dave Brown/ Ross Fitzpatrick/Sami Kapanen/John LeClair/Sam Morin/Mark Greig/Chris Stewart etc weren't all linemates...but they are all ex-Flyers.

 

Still happy Fletcher is gone. Still hoping they can build a winner. Just wishing they'd draw from a larger pool.

I don't care. JVR is gone!

[mojo1917]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

or because you'd never done anything like that before

who are you referring to?

Leclair?-  Maybe you have a point, but his story and route to NHL stardom was non-traditional. I'll bet he has insight to share with young players. 

Sharp? - Worked with his alma mater in a consultant role, Also, was a fantastic national studio analyst. Dumbasses that don't know better don't rise to that level.

Jones? So far Jonesy is ****** killing it. He's glad handling the right people, you know he made ol' Matvei feel like he was a little brother or nephew being welcomed home. 

We don't know how good or bad of a job these "newish" development guys have been doing further down the chain of command.

Maybe they've been in Danny or whoever's ear about what they're seeing other teams do or what they would want to do to develop players better.

You don't know, I don't know their qualifications. 

Plus what would they be?

The automatic hue and cry that goes up anytime a former Flyer does anything with the team is absurd imo, Obviously you feel differently.

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by mojo1917

[mojo1917]

31 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Just take Sam Morin hiring. This is a young kid who hadn't had a chance to accomplish anything else in life except playing the game. Right after it was finally decided his injuries ended his career, the Flyers hire him. I personally think it's commendable on their part, but it's obvious he doesn't have real world experience in the role they hired him for

Taking a young guy with passion for something and training him  ...huh, crazy? amirite?

[flyercanuck]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The automatic hue and cry that goes up anytime a former Flyer does anything with the team is absurd imo, Obviously you feel differently.

 

After watching this team NOT win a cup for longer than most of their fans have been alive, let's just say the "let ex-Flyers run this thing" has worn a little thin with me. 

 

I will gladly eat some crow if it actually works after 4 or 5 decades of it not.

[jammer2]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

who are you referring to?

Leclair?-  Maybe you have a point, but his story and route to NHL stardom was non-traditional. I'll be he has insight to share with young players. 

Sharp? - Worked with his alma mater in a consultant role, Also, was a fantastic national studio analyst. Dumbasses that don't know better don't rise to that level.

Jones? So far Jonesy is ****** killing it. He's glad handling the right people, you know he made ol' Matvei feel like he was a little brother or nephew being welcomed home. 

We don't know how good or bad of a job these "newish" development guys have been doing further down the chain of command.

Maybe they've been in Danny or whoever's ear about what they're seeing other teams do or what they would want to do to develop players better.

You don't know, I don't know their qualifications. 

Plus what would they be?

The automatic hue and cry that goes up anytime a former Flyer does anything with the team is absurd imo, Obviously you feel differently.

 

 

 

Anyone who was in the room when Michkov "hit it off" with them is to be commended. Seems like they came off as genuine non phony assholes and swung things in the Flyers favor....HUGE!!

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I don't care. JVR is gone!

Pretty sure I heard that somewhere else 

 

It should be the 2023 team motto. I WANT A T-SHIRT

[Cheesesteak]

On 7/3/2023 at 10:49 AM, ruxpin said:

I don't care. JVR is gone!

[Cheesesteak]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:08 AM, mojo1917 said:

Jones? So far Jonesy is ****** killing it. He's glad handling the right people, you know he made ol' Matvei feel like he was a little brother or nephew being welcomed home. 

 

 

 

Totally agree with this!

 

Jonesy always was the guy that everyone liked to be around