Game 18: Columbus Blue Jackets at Philadelphia Flyers; 11/19/23 @ 5:30 PM, NBCSP

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

We are favorites (-148) with a 58% win probability.

 

The O and B are better statistically:

https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/cbj-vs-phi/2023/11/19/2023020268

 

Laine and Johnny Hockey are underperforming and frequently benched.  Both squads will be on back-to-backs.  I suspect Ersson is in goal. This is a potential San Jose redux.  Let's hope not.  

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

 

Tank Wars!!!

[Samifan]

Jackets coming into today’s game on a 8 game losing streak.

We’ve all seen this movie before…..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, Samifan said:

Jackets coming into today’s game on a 8 game losing streak.

We’ve all seen this movie before…..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tank battle is on...

[OccamsRazor]

Ok so the Flyers have a Wild card spot.

 

Rebuild officially over.

 

Stanley Cup or bust here on out...

[Howie58]

Well, I'd assign a 50/50 odds to Sandstom going. The dude is the odd man out here. Of course, he will be an excellent backup elsewhere.

[Howie58]

Does anybody know about a 5:30 start? Seems early. 

[Samifan]

Of course he scores, Provocop pots one against his former team.

#unwrittenrule

#formerplayersmustscore

[Samifan]

11 minutes ago, Samifan said:

Of course he scores, Provocop pots one against his former team.

#unwrittenrule

#formerplayersmustscore

Never mind. They took the goal away from him and gave it to Bruce Jenner! 

[Howie58]

According to Jordan Hall, this five-game win streak is first since 2019-20. We have outscored the opposition 22-11. WTF + Tortorella.  My tired eyes say a 3-point night for Poehling makes him a cost-effective pickup.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Howie58

[mojo1917]

Flyers goal song: ain't talkin' about love is ****** awesome.

have a great day

[mojo1917]

I'm so glad the Flyers are not tanking.

I really kind of dig the f-all attitude they seem to have.

The team is playing for one another, they compete their asses off.

If eventually the lack of high-end talent catches up with them, I think it will, then okay we all kind of knew the roster at the beginning of the season and the expectation bar has been set appropriately.

If these dudes outperform expectations and some are still on the roster when the two top 5 picks make their way to the league...those new talented dudes will be coming into an atmosphere of accountability and a belief that they're never out of a game. What's not to like?

I think some of these young cats are growing into players. I'm here for it.

This team is so much more fun to watch than the late-model Giroux teams and the Hayes unled squad of a year ago.

 

[SCFlyguy]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

If eventually the lack of high-end talent catches up with them, I think it will, then okay we all kind of knew the roster at the beginning of the season and the expectation bar has been set appropriately.

It’s going to suck if that catches up to them not this year but in 1-3 years and the team then realizes they don’t have enough talent.  Now is the time to get that talent.

[albertaflyer]

22 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

It’s going to suck if that catches up to them not this year but in 1-3 years and the team then realizes they don’t have enough talent.  Now is the time to get that talent.

1-3 years when they have Gauthier and Michkov. I think that's some pretty good top end talent coming through.  Ask Buffalo how all these top end draft picks are working out.  You can draft all the top end talent all you want. If you don't surround them with good Vets and develop them properly it won't matter.  That's one reason I have some faith in the Flyers now. I think they have the right guys in place now to lead this franchise.  I'll take this team any day. They work their asses off and they are actually fun to watch.  

[GratefulFlyers]

5 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

It’s going to suck if that catches up to them not this year but in 1-3 years and the team then realizes they don’t have enough talent.  Now is the time to get that talent.

Sure but I doubt anyone in management thinks they’re done. They’ve beaten some real good teams and they’re doing it “by committee” as Tortorella likes to say. But the rebuild is a multi-year project; a hot streak (or two or 3) won’t derail it. 
 

The Flyers’ needs won’t become obvious until Ristolainen’s back in the lineup (and to a lesser extent as a 3rd-pair guy, Staal). Tortorella will have to juggle the pairs to squeeze in Ristolainen and a roster spot that Zamula, Walker, York etc. really need for their development will be taken up by an overpaid, under-skilled stiff. 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

It’s going to suck if that catches up to them not this year but in 1-3 years and the team then realizes they don’t have enough talent.  Now is the time to get that talent.

There are some pretty good hockey players on this Flyers team. They just don't have the guy that when they come over the boards the other team is thinking oh ****...

I can compare what I'm seeing now to what I thought I saw of the really good LA Kings and even the Colorado Avalanche teams before they opened their window for championships.

 

Those teams had some upward swings and then took a step back before putting it all together. I can remember the Kings making the playoffs and were everyone's darlings as a team on the rise, then they missed the playoffs, their improvement was a like a sawing a log and not linear. The Avalanche kind of rebuilt their roster on the fly; moving on from a nice core of players and Gabe Landeskog to Gabe Landeskog, Nathan MacKinnon and Cale Makar. They had some luck in the draft but when they shifted from a not great core- the team was still competitive. They weren't an easy night on the schedule. Heck even the stupid Rangers didn't take very long to get pretty good. Those teams had different situations than the Flyers, I know, but the change in draft philosophy ( picking guys with an elite skill and not high floors) recently may turn out to accelerate the Flyers rebuild.

 

Is this upcoming draft so great that the Flyers should hold a fire sale?  

I haven't read that. 

I have heard that once you get past the top 3, there are many "really good" players through the mid 20s... but there are no Bedards at the top, (Last year was the year to lose)  2024 is deep with really good players, particularly defensemen.

If the Flyers pick in the 8-10 range and then get Florida's 20 - 26 range pick that's two more really good players to be added to a team that has a foundation for competing and some good players in place. 

 

I don't disagree with your concern. 

I'd rather watch this brand of hockey than the **** Chicago put on the ice last year or the "going through the motions" of the late era Giroux teams.

 

 

 

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

I agree that there may be some pieces on the roster now who could be important players on a possible serious contender say in 5 years.  Farabee could be a really good player if surrounded by really good talent.  But they feel like mostly complementary players (the Browns) than the stars who will strike fear into opposing teams (Kopitar).

 

(I say 5 years because I don't think its realistic that they can contend until Gautier and Michkov are both on the team and that feels like it will be 2-3 years.  I also don't think it's realistic to expect those two in their first year to be the Flyers' best players on a contending team.)

 

It just feels like they are 1-2 All-Stars short of a Cup winning team at this point, especially on D.  Those guys could be on the roster or in the system now (Bonk), but given what we know about the chances of even first round picks not developing into that kind of player (due to injury or otherwise), I would feel a lot more comfortable if the Flyers cashed in some current assets for some picks or prospects who will be coming into their own on the Michkov timeline, which is when the Flyers' window will open (if it ever does).

 

I think how the current regime handles some limited success this year will tell us a lot about whether they have learned any patience from previous regimes' terrible impatience.

[mojo1917]

@SCFlyguy

1000% agree about needing the #1 defenseman. Maybe Bonk? He's coming out of London so he'll be pretty polished. 

I also agree that the guys on the team now are more supporting type players. Maybe Gauthier and Michkov are the (Kopitar) guys.?

I think it is a tricky balance between creating a winning culture and accumulating assets.  I never think a bunch of young guys Lord of the Flies-ing their development playing professional sports has worked very well, so I would be selective about which current veteran players are used in trades.

 

I'm not deluded by the little winning streak.

I am pleased by it though.

 

[RonJeremy]

The  biggest problems I see is on defense and then center. We have some skilled young wingers now, TK, Tippett, Farabee, Brink, Foerester and Gauthier and Mickov coming in the next few years. On defense we really do not have any legit first pair defenseman. Sanheim is having a career year but at best he's a #2. York could become a solid #2-3, none of our other defenseman in the system are projected to be any kind of game changing defenseman including Bonk. Andrae is probably a top 3 but we don't know if his ceiling is that of a top 2 dman.

 

At center we have Coots, who is over thirty with a bad back, Frost who has great skill and can potentially be a #2 or #3 center, but he has to step it up, the window is closing. Cates is a perfect third line center. Poehling has skill and can be at least a third liner maybe a second. I think Poehling can make Laughton expendable if someone offer a first round pick. Gauthier is being converted to center and if he succeeds, then we have a #1-2 center,  but as of now we have no sure fire #1 or 2 center.

.

This next draft is loaded with good defenseman , so if we have to trade up for a game changer this is the year to do it. Since it seems we are not that bad, we probably pick around 10, so we probably have to move up .If we keep the Fla pick we have to hope a good center is available.  The other option is filling the weakness on defense and center by dealing from our strength which is right wing. TK can certainly get us a top young dman or center plus picks.

[mojo1917]

53 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

none of our other defenseman in the system are projected to be any kind of game changing defenseman including Bonk. Andrae is probably a top 3 but we don't know if his ceiling is that of a top 2 dman.

Bonk's floor is middle pairing.

Maybe he develops into a #1, he's smart, big and right handed... I would put Bonk ahead of Andrae if I were ranking the prospects. 

 

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Bonk's floor is middle pairing.

Maybe he develops into a #1, he's smart, big and right handed... I would put Bonk ahead of Andrae if I were ranking the prospects. 

 

I hope so, because one of the biggest problems with the Flyers for years has been putting players in a position to fail by giving them too much responsibility, putting them in a role they are not skilled enough for and anointing them as something they are not. To me our last legit #1 and 2 defenseman were Howe/McCrimmon and Pronger/Carle. Desjardins with Therein is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.  Therein was in no way a top pair dman, but he was with the Flyers. We ran Desjardins into the ground with overuse ans not getting him a proper partner.