JVR trade

[trevluk]

I have tto admit that I have been pretty much disinterested in this season and think it's a joke so I havent been following the games very much, but I just saw that JVR already has 11 goals this season! I for one really liked JVR and am happy that he is doing well in his new environment. As I said, I havent really been following the games this year so I cant comment on how valuable Luke Schenn has been to our team - maybe some of you guys could give me your opinion on that - but I would have to say that right now the Leafs are pretty happy with the trade. Hopefully it turns out to be a win-win for both teams.

[flyercanuck]

I thought it was a trade that would turn out good for both. I honestly thought we should have got a 2nd or 3rd as well. But defenCemen are more valuable. You honestly liked JVR? I liked his talent, his size, his skating ability. His effort pi22ed me off game in and game out.

[brelic]

There's no doubt that JVR's 11 goals are probably more valuable to the Leafs than Schenn's hits have been to the Flyers, spectacular as they might have been.

But for my money, I'd much prefer a hard-nosed, hard hitting, defensive defenceman over a soft, shows-up-when-he-feels-like-it forward. To be fair, that's how I saw JVR in Philly, but of course he's only 23 and things can change pretty quickly. I had him pegged as a Jeff Carter without frosted tips, and if that's what he turns out to be, then I won't feel too bad for letting him go. But if he turns into something closer to Rick Nash or Bobby Ryan, then we may regret giving up on him so early.

At the end of the day, though, we *did* need to address defence, and we did get a nice young 23 old with a high ceiling of our own who could be a fixture on the top pairing for a decade or more. I think those guys are more 'valuable' in the long run.

[jammer2]

@brelic "I had him pegged as a Jeff Carter without frosted tips, and if that's what he turns out to be, then I won't feel too bad for letting him go. But if he turns into something closer to Rick Nash or Bobby Ryan, then we may regret giving up on him so early."

That's what I thought also bre, but his play has been much more inspired as a Leaf that a Flyer...in general. He's taking the puck to the net with alarming consistancy....something we have not seen out of him with regularity since that one wicked playoff year. That was really his downfall in Philly, he showed us fans and the team what he *can* do, and then refused to do it. Maybe somebody got to him and shook the hell out of him..."this is your career here, you can't make this much money in the real world".....whoever, or whatever woke him up, I don't believe it would have happened in Philly, maybe the shock of getting dealt woke him out of his slumber...who knows....but I don't miss him.

[brelic]

@brelic "I had him pegged as a Jeff Carter without frosted tips, and if that's what he turns out to be, then I won't feel too bad for letting him go. But if he turns into something closer to Rick Nash or Bobby Ryan, then we may regret giving up on him so early."

That's what I thought also bre, but his play has been much more inspired as a Leaf that a Flyer...in general. He's taking the puck to the net with alarming consistancy....something we have not seen out of him with regularity since that one wicked playoff year. That was really his downfall in Philly, he showed us fans and the team what he *can* do, and then refused to do it. Maybe somebody got to him and shook the hell out of him..."this is your career here, you can't make this much money in the real world".....whoever, or whatever woke him up, I don't believe it would have happened in Philly, maybe the shock of getting dealt woke him out of his slumber...who knows....but I don't miss him.

That's good for him if he woke up. He has the tools, but I think we always questioned his dedication and passion.

I don't miss him either

[jammer2]

@brelic I've always said, it seems as if hockey is a means to an end for JVR, if he could make a few million bucks a year digging ditchs, he would have a shovel in his hand right now....just does not appear to love the game like most....just my take.

[AndyS]

I have tto admit that I have been pretty much disinterested in this season and think it's a joke so I havent been following the games very much, but I just saw that JVR already has 11 goals this season! I for one really liked JVR and am happy that he is doing well in his new environment. As I said, I havent really been following the games this year so I cant comment on how valuable Luke Schenn has been to our team - maybe some of you guys could give me your opinion on that - but I would have to say that right now the Leafs are pretty happy with the trade. Hopefully it turns out to be a win-win for both teams.

I swear every time I see Maple Leafs highlights, they show #21 scoring a big goal.

Yeah, it sucks. I did think it was a good trade at the time, though. And Schenn has been pretty good. Hopefully this trade ends up as a win-win.

[Lindbergh31]

@brelic "I had him pegged as a Jeff Carter without frosted tips, and if that's what he turns out to be, then I won't feel too bad for letting him go. But if he turns into something closer to Rick Nash or Bobby Ryan, then we may regret giving up on him so early."

That's what I thought also bre, but his play has been much more inspired as a Leaf that a Flyer...in general. He's taking the puck to the net with alarming consistancy....something we have not seen out of him with regularity since that one wicked playoff year. That was really his downfall in Philly, he showed us fans and the team what he *can* do, and then refused to do it. Maybe somebody got to him and shook the hell out of him..."this is your career here, you can't make this much money in the real world".....whoever, or whatever woke him up, I don't believe it would have happened in Philly, maybe the shock of getting dealt woke him out of his slumber...who knows....but I don't miss him.

Jammer, you have to remember that JVR goes from a fanbase who wants to win a cup to a fanbase who will consider making the playoffs a success. He's doing well but he did that in bits and pieces in Philly also, now we'll have to see if he can do it consistently over the course of a season. As for Luke Schenn, he's doing well and hopefully continues to improve as the season goes. I think it was a good trade for both teams.

[jammer2]

@Lindbergh31 Good point Lind, there is a lot less pressure to win in Toronto....just eeking into the playoffs would be a dream for most Leaf fans, a reason to bitch for Flyer fans.

[brelic]

@Lindbergh31 Good point Lind, there is a lot less pressure to win in Toronto....just eeking into the playoffs would be a dream for most Leaf fans, a reason to bitch for Flyer fans.

Burke has to be so disgusted that he gets fired when his hard work is finally starting to pay off and show in the standings and the makeup of the team.

Seriously, that was the oddest firing I've ever seen.

[jammer2]

@brelic To make it even odder, Burke just quit his role as adviser on the Leafs and took a part time scouting gig for the Ducks....hmmm....

[Polaris922]

I think that was a win-win trade, and if anything you guys got the better of it. Quality defenseman are tough to find, especially someone with a zeal for the physical. Schenn may not be the next Coffey, but he's a tough kid who likes to punch opposing players.

JVR needed a change to wake him up. Nothing your club did was changing his game, and it took being unwanted and realizing you only get so many chances to turn that around.

[peter puck]

Burke has to be so disgusted that he gets fired when his hard work is finally starting to pay off and show in the standings and the makeup of the team.

Seriously, that was the oddest firing I've ever seen.

crazy as the Debs firing the coach while in first place Edited February 23, 2013 by peter puck

[canoli]

I think that was a win-win trade, and if anything you guys got the better of it. Quality defenseman are tough to find, especially someone with a zeal for the physical. Schenn may not be the next Coffey, but he's a tough kid who likes to punch opposing players.

JVR needed a change to wake him up. Nothing your club did was changing his game, and it took being unwanted and realizing you only get so many chances to turn that around.

great post Pol - I think that says it just right. As FC said it would've been *nice* if we'd gotten a pick in addition to Schenn but it was probably a fair trade when you factor in the value of D-men in general. And in our favor is also the fact that Luke's presence has (probably) settled down his brother a bit...hard to know for sure obviously but (unless they hated each other) it has to help having him around. At the very least their folks have an easier travel schedule!

I'm happy for JVR - happier still that he's gone. Like you said "nothing your club did..." so it was a win-win for both clubs. I'm not so sure the pressure is appreciably less in hockey-mad Toronto but it'll be interesting to see if JVR can continue to light it up when the stakes get higher...in April and beyond.

[BearOnIce]

I have tto admit that I have been pretty much disinterested in this season and think it's a joke so I havent been following the games very much, but I just saw that JVR already has 11 goals this season! I for one really liked JVR and am happy that he is doing well in his new environment. As I said, I havent really been following the games this year so I cant comment on how valuable Luke Schenn has been to our team - maybe some of you guys could give me your opinion on that - but I would have to say that right now the Leafs are pretty happy with the trade. Hopefully it turns out to be a win-win for both teams.

Homer got fleeced. Flyers will not go anywhere as long as this stonehead remains as GM. Snider's headstone will read could've, should've... Bye bye Ed.

[flyercanuck]

@BearOnIce

You can tell he got fleeced 20 games in on a couple of 23 year old players who's careers who've have had equal amounts of ups and downs? Really?

[Polaris922]

Homer got fleeced. Flyers will not go anywhere as long as this stonehead remains as GM. Snider's headstone will read could've, should've... Bye bye Ed.

I strongly disagree with this. I'm no fan of Holmgren, but I still think you guys got the better of this trade. You're comparing the trade based on what JVR is doing in the Leafs organization, not where he performed in your own. For whatever reason, he didn't skate hard or battle for you guys. Maybe he was frustrated? Maybe he had no chemistry with linemates? For whatever reason he underperformed for you guys big time, and this season would most likely have been no different as he'd clearly fallen out of favor. New starts often wake up good players... i.e. Markus Naslund.

Rather than an underperforming forward, your squad also woke up Schenn on defense, and he plays harder and more solid now than I ever remember him playing in Toronto. Win - win!

[BearOnIce]

I strongly disagree with this. I'm no fan of Holmgren, but I still think you guys got the better of this trade. You're comparing the trade based on what JVR is doing in the Leafs organization, not where he performed in your own. For whatever reason, he didn't skate hard or battle for you guys. Maybe he was frustrated? Maybe he had no chemistry with linemates? For whatever reason he underperformed for you guys big time, and this season would most likely have been no different as he'd clearly fallen out of favor. New starts often wake up good players... i.e. Markus Naslund.

Rather than an underperforming forward, your squad also woke up Schenn on defense, and he plays harder and more solid now than I ever remember him playing in Toronto. Win - win!

What?

"You're comparing the trade based on what JVR is doing in the Leafs organization, not where he performed in your own.

Why would you compare anything else? It's all about results and mano-mano I ain't seeing it with Mr. L. Schenn.

"For whatever reason, he didn't skate hard or battle for you guys."

Enough of a reason to move his xss out..

Maybe he was frustrated?

Yea, with that kind of money anyone would get frustrated. Maybe he needed his mommy to pull up his Big Boy Panties.

"Maybe he had no chemistry with linemates?"

Yea, that was it. Definately. Injuries or effort had nothing to do with it. Right.

"For whatever reason he underperformed for you guys big time, and this season would most likely have been no different as he'd clearly fallen out of favor."

Players usually fall out of favor when they don't perform. Your opinion about this season is not supported by any proof, all conjecture. In fact, JVR is lighting it up in Toronto while Luke Schenn is nothing more than ordinary for the O&B.

One more example, on top of Bob, Jagr, and Carle, why this Flyers organization will never win anything with Holmgren as GM, Clarke as Senior V.P. doing who knows what, and Old Ed Snider spending money like a drunken sailor to try and get another Cup at whatever cost before he gets plotted up in Laurel Hill Cemetary along with the long line of Sniders..

[doom88]

@BearOnIce

You realize that same group brought in Pronger and came VERY close to winning a Cup? The goaltending meltdown let to the Bryz acquisition. You win some and lose some, but those guys deserve credit where due. Philly is a far cry from Columbus.

[Polaris922]

What?

"You're comparing the trade based on what JVR is doing in the Leafs organization, not where he performed in your own.

Why would you compare anything else? It's all about results and mano-mano I ain't seeing it with Mr. L. Schenn.

"For whatever reason, he didn't skate hard or battle for you guys."

Enough of a reason to move his xss out..

Maybe he was frustrated?

Yea, with that kind of money anyone would get frustrated. Maybe he needed his mommy to pull up his Big Boy Panties.

"Maybe he had no chemistry with linemates?"

Yea, that was it. Definately. Injuries or effort had nothing to do with it. Right.

"For whatever reason he underperformed for you guys big time, and this season would most likely have been no different as he'd clearly fallen out of favor."

Players usually fall out of favor when they don't perform. Your opinion about this season is not supported by any proof, all conjecture. In fact, JVR is lighting it up in Toronto while Luke Schenn is nothing more than ordinary for the O&B.

One more example, on top of Bob, Jagr, and Carle, why this Flyers organization will never win anything with Holmgren as GM, Clarke as Senior V.P. doing who knows what, and Old Ed Snider spending money like a drunken sailor to try and get another Cup at whatever cost before he gets plotted up in Laurel Hill Cemetary along with the long line of Sniders..

You can't compare what he does in Toronto with what he'd be doing in Philly. He'd be getting second line minutes at best in Philly, and as his history has shown, not doing much with them. So you think he'd have 11 goals on your roster right now is what you're saying? If that's true, where was it before? You aren't seeing it with Luke Schenn? He has as many goals as your highly touted Timonen with almost zero power play time. Timonen's are both on the power play as usual, Schenn's are even strength. Schenn is plus 6... highest among your defense by 4 points, and on a minus team. He's been your best defenseman on the ice in the games I've seen, and leading the league in hits not too long ago, currently in fifth on that list but with less than half the penalty minutes of those ahead of him.

You agree with me that he didn't try hard with your Club in the same argument you make that he shouldn't have been traded? You're confusing things for me. Are you glad he's gone and just don't like who you got in return? I threw several ideas as to why he didn't perform well, without stating I knew why. So yes, pick those apart all you want, they're still just possibilities. I'm in agreement with you that Holmgren is not doing the job for you. I just think he did the right job in acquiring Schenn for a forward who wasn't performing in Philly. I don't care if JVR gets 50 goals in this short season, he wasn't doing it for you, so why hold onto him? And you got a damn good defenseman just starting to hit his stride it would appear.

[BearOnIce]

You can't compare what he does in Toronto with what he'd be doing in Philly. He'd be getting second line minutes at best in Philly, and as his history has shown, not doing much with them. So you think he'd have 11 goals on your roster right now is what you're saying? If that's true, where was it before? You aren't seeing it with Luke Schenn? He has as many goals as your highly touted Timonen with almost zero power play time. Timonen's are both on the power play as usual, Schenn's are even strength. Schenn is plus 6... highest among your defense by 4 points, and on a minus team. He's been your best defenseman on the ice in the games I've seen, and leading the league in hits not too long ago, currently in fifth on that list but with less than half the penalty minutes of those ahead of him.

You agree with me that he didn't try hard with your Club in the same argument you make that he shouldn't have been traded? You're confusing things for me. Are you glad he's gone and just don't like who you got in return? I threw several ideas as to why he didn't perform well, without stating I knew why. So yes, pick those apart all you want, they're still just possibilities. I'm in agreement with you that Holmgren is not doing the job for you. I just think he did the right job in acquiring Schenn for a forward who wasn't performing in Philly. I don't care if JVR gets 50 goals in this short season, he wasn't doing it for you, so why hold onto him? And you got a damn good defenseman just starting to hit his stride it would appear.

We can boith agree that Holmgren ain't the solution. Good luck tonite against Stamkos.

[Polaris922]

We can boith agree that Holmgren ain't the solution. Good luck tonite against Stamkos.

We're up 3-0 after one so we'll see how it plays out.

[BearOnIce]

We're up 3-0 after one so we'll see how it plays out.

5-3. Nice effort. Crosby looked, well like Crosby. Hope Gino gets better soon.

[King Knut]

I think it definitely is a win win for both teams and both players.

With Pronger's career so sadly on the rocks and Timmo being fairly open about his impending retirement (even at the time, everyone knew it would be coming soon) Something needed to happen on our D pretty desperately. What we had a glut of was talented young former first round pick forwards. I liked JVR too and wanted to see him grow into the player he could become here... but we needed a D-Man and Schenn has the right pieces to be a pretty good one. He's made incredible strides already this season. Pretty impressive from where he started. Playing with Timmo seems to make young D men amazingly better and smarter.

Win Win As long as we win the game tonight, I'll be happy.

Hopefully it turns out to be a win-win for both teams.