To all of the Couturier believers

[Philly29]

Wow wonder when the trade Giroux threads will start popping up.... This whole team looks like **** growing pains guys please give this core more time...

[DaGreatGazoo]

what about a strength coach?

what about a heart transplant.

I'm not in the club that he's lazy or lacks heart..he's a 20 year old who has lost his confidence, and on a team--that from the outside-seems to be lacking leadership in a serious way. Those are recipes for disaster to a young player. They kid played well last year when on a set line, with set linemates.

He is in the same toilet bowl as other good players on this team. This is a lost season, and a lousy one. The one saving grace would be a great draft pick that is around for 10 years.

[Philly29]

please watch the first 10 minutes of tonight's game and watch how weak he is on his skates.

he has the strength of a waif out there; not only is he slow, he's weak and passive.

i know, i know, he's a shutdown center. please, spare me the nonsense.

Hes only in his second season for God sake man your just like everyone else who wants instant results and thats why we are never going to win a cup....this isnt really his second season its a short piece of crap put together season because of the TPTB are idiots....Give him some time man, Giroux isnt having a great year lets trade him **** it! The kid is what 6'4" let him grow into his frame the kid can't even order a drink yet....

[brelic]

Hes only in his second season for God sake man your just like everyone else who wants instant results and thats why we are never going to win a cup....this isnt really his second season its a short piece of crap put together season because of the TPTB are idiots....Give him some time man, Giroux isnt having a great year lets trade him **** it! The kid is what 6'4" let him grow into his frame the kid can't even order a drink yet....

Look how incredible Voracek is this year. It took him SIX YEARS to reach this level. JVR is having a similar season in Toronto (though he has really cooled off). Don't expect a top tier performance out of Couturier until at least 2017-2018. He'll have ups and downs all along the way.

(BTW, this isn't a reply to you necessarily, but just to the thread in general

[murraycraven]

6 years!?! That is like 50 years in Flyers years... do we have the patience??

[brelic]

6 years!?! That is like 50 years in Flyers years... do we have the patience??

Well, it appears we did with Giroux (except, of course, giving him the captaincy). But, yeah, this organization gives up on players early.

[caluso]

it's great to compare couturier to giroux, jvr and voracek. however, it's a meaningless comparison. Couturier doesn't have their skill set, specifically, their skating ability. all 3 are excellent skaters - and strong on their feet. Couturier is slow, plodding and weak.

let, Couturier "grow into his frame." he still won't have the foot speed or explosiveness to be a top 6 forward. and please don't tell me he is a shutdown center: he wasn;t drafted that high to win the Selke.

on a separate note: i agree that the whole team has underperformed in this wacky season - not just Couturier. read, giroux, hartnell, briere (equally inept as Couturier), schenn have all had subpar, bad years but, emotions aside, because i have nothing personal against him, Coturier has looked especially bad, entitled and lazy.

i am not for blowing up the team either. i just dont buy the hype that coots should be part of the core of the future because if that's the case, we are in a heap of trouble.

[flyercanuck]

@caluso

How about giving a 20 year old kid a bit of patience for crying out loud. HE'S TWENTY!!! Most players who are in the NHL now, that's MOST, are still playing junior hockey at 20.

[caluso]

i dont care about

@caluso

How about giving a 20 year old kid a bit of patience for crying out loud. HE'S TWENTY!!! Most players who are in the NHL now, that's MOST, are still playing junior hockey at 20.

his play has regressed, not improved, with age. i hate to see how lethargic and slow will be when he is 22.

hamilton,huberdeau, b schenn, galchenyuk, yakupov - to name a few - are also very young with much better games.

so what exactly about his game do you like? how has he impressed you?

[OccamsRazor]

if they slide Talbot elsewhere (and they should for developing Coururier).

he could be slid out the door in a trade....remember he drew a lot of interest before the trade dealdline and with the emergence of Hall and the cap they may have few options...and for Coots a spot...we'll see.

[flyercanuck]

Yakupov was a #1 pick. Galchenyuk a #3 I believe. Huberdeau the same? He was in junior last year (which is where I said Couturier should have been) There's a big difference between that and #8. Scheifele (picked before Couturier) is still playing junior here where I live. Strowe was taken 5th that year and hasn't played NHL yet. Couturier has twice as many points as Zibanijad who was taken before him that draft.

[mojo1917]

i dont care about

his play has regressed, not improved, with age. i hate to see how lethargic and slow will be when he is 22.

hamilton,huberdeau, b schenn, galchenyuk, yakupov - to name a few - are also very young with much better games.

so what exactly about his game do you like? how has he impressed you?

this year his play has not impressed anyone. so why sell low , to continue losing out by making rash decisions ?

i think it would be foolish to dump the young guy for a bag of pucks before we see what he is like at 22, I don't think as others have said this is the year to pull the plug on a guy in his second year. Lots of players have had bad second years in the league lots of them have gone on to be very good pros. None of us know what the future holds but to be sure that he's going to really suck at 22 as opposed to be bigger stronger , more mature and have improved the areas where is game is weak ? I don't know how to make that judgement today. I've never read anything about him , or heard anything about him that makes me think he's a prima donna that won't work on his game. i've seen one interview where he said the reason we got him at 8 was because he had mono, but that's as far as i've seen him say anything that has me thinking "entitled" .

he's been bad this year, his skating looks laborious, he has no confidence. he fits right in with this group. I'm not ready to call him a bust though.

[caluso]

Yakupov was a #1 pick. Galchenyuk a #3 I believe. Huberdeau the same? He was in junior last year (which is where I said Couturier should have been) There's a big difference between that and #8. Scheifele (picked before Couturier) is still playing junior here where I live. Strowe was taken 5th that year and hasn't played NHL yet. Couturier has twice as many points as Zibanijad who was taken before him that draft.

you mentioned age, not draft position. and, there are a lot more 20 year olds who can cut it nowadays than before.

and, the point i keep trying to make is that Couturier's weak skating will never allow him to be a top 6 forward (sadly, his speed and explosiveness are insensitive to age: either you have it at this point, or you dont).

the fact is, which people keep skating around, he lacks explosiveness and speed and seemingly desire. a very bad combo.

Edited April 14, 2013 by caluso

[caluso]

this year his play has not impressed anyone. so why sell low , to continue losing out by making rash decisions ?

i think it would be foolish to dump the young guy for a bag of pucks before we see what he is like at 22, I don't think as others have said this is the year to pull the plug on a guy in his second year. Lots of players have had bad second years in the league lots of them have gone on to be very good pros. None of us know what the future holds but to be sure that he's going to really suck at 22 as opposed to be bigger stronger , more mature and have improved the areas where is game is weak ? I don't know how to make that judgement today. I've never read anything about him , or heard anything about him that makes me think he's a prima donna that won't work on his game. i've seen one interview where he said the reason we got him at 8 was because he had mono, but that's as far as i've seen him say anything that has me thinking "entitled" .

he's been bad this year, his skating looks laborious, he has no confidence. he fits right in with this group. I'm not ready to call him a bust though.

i never said to trade him. in fact, i said that we wouldnt get anything decent for him if we traded him now - BECAUSE HE HAS STUNK THIS YEAR.

we have no choice but to hope that he comes back invigorated and motivated next year and his play improves. because the reality is if his skating doesn't improve, he has BUST written all over him...

[Philly29]

it's great to compare couturier to giroux, jvr and voracek. however, it's a meaningless comparison. Couturier doesn't have their skill set, specifically, their skating ability. all 3 are excellent skaters - and strong on their feet. Couturier is slow, plodding and weak.

let, Couturier "grow into his frame." he still won't have the foot speed or explosiveness to be a top 6 forward. and please don't tell me he is a shutdown center: he wasn;t drafted that high to win the Selke.

on a separate note: i agree that the whole team has underperformed in this wacky season - not just Couturier. read, giroux, hartnell, briere (equally inept as Couturier), schenn have all had subpar, bad years but, emotions aside, because i have nothing personal against him, Coturier has looked especially bad, entitled and lazy.

i am not for blowing up the team either. i just dont buy the hype that coots should be part of the core of the future because if that's the case, we are in a heap of trouble.

Coots does not have the skill set....didn't he score like 98pts in the minors while he was playing with mono???Didn't he score more pts then Crosby in the monors the same minor league that Crosby was in? Doesnt have the foot speed....not every player has to have Grabner like speed to be efficient. Not a shutdown center wtf did he do to the entire Penguins team last playoffs...?

[terp]

i never said to trade him. in fact, i said that we wouldnt get anything decent for him if we traded him now - BECAUSE HE HAS STUNK THIS YEAR.

we have no choice but to hope that he comes back invigorated and motivated next year and his play improves. because the reality is if his skating doesn't improve, he has BUST written all over him...

This whole "he can't skate" thing is over the top wrong. He hasn't played well this year but it isn't because he's a bad skater. He lacks an explosive first step but he's actually a pretty good skater. Has good balance and good lateral mobility. The more obvious problem is his confidence, which is at rock bottom. This is why it is better to let players develop in junior and the minor leagues, not to work on their skating but to allow them to play where they belong in the line up. Couturier doesn't belong centering the likes of Jay Rosehill and this is more likely to be at the root of the problem.

[LegionOfDoom]

There is so much new technology in sports fitness and the classic good ol' hard work, that can come into play that can improve, Anybody! And I MEAN ANYBODY, Period! I can 100% GUARANTEE that if a piece of shyte skater sucking the hell out of sports, takes the time and effort for a whole summer x 2 and during the season to work on explosiveness, core strength, flexibilty, and all the modern techniques that are out there, they will improve by 70% or more of where they started at.

Now! the question is......

do you wanna to do it?

[flyercanuck]

@caluso

There are a lot of 20 year olds who can cut it. There are a lot MORE who take longer. There is a reason you keep hearing Couturiers name in trade rumours. A lot of teams don't have anywhere near the depth at center Philly has. Couturiers size, reach and defensive responsibility make him a valuable asset to a lot of teams. Guys who want to dump him are the same guys who'll be complaining Homer doesn't have any patience. If Couturier doesn't have the skill, how did he manage to have the most ppg of ANY junior in his draft year.

Edited April 14, 2013 by flyercanuck

[brelic]

@caluso

There are a lot of 20 year olds who can cut it. There are a lot MORE who take longer. There is a reason you keep hearing Couturiers name in trade rumours. A lot of teams don't have anywhere near the depth at center Philly has. Couturiers size, reach and defensive responsibility make him a valuable asset to a lot of teams. Guys who want to dump him are the same guys who'll be complaining Homer doesn't have any patience. If Couturier doesn't have the skill, how did he manage to have the most ppg of ANY junior in his draft year.

He was also a PPG player in the AHL earlier this year (28 pts in 31 games). That shows that he can dominate at that level too, which most 19/20 year olds cannot. So, the NHL is the right place for him, despite his growing pains. It will take time. He may develop into an excellent #1/2 center, 60-80 points, and solid two-way play. I would say that's his ceiling. Or, he might not, and become a version of Michal Handzus. Certainly a useful type player, but well below his projection.

But we really can't know one way or another right now, which is what makes him valuable in a trade. Ideally, I'd like to keep all of our young guys. But the way Homer does business has left us with many holes to fill and it will cost us young prospects to fill them.

Between Schenn and Coots, it's hard to say which one will be better. I think having a Couturier as a #2 behind Giroux in 3-4 years creates a great 1/2 punch, but I would also think Couturier has more trade value than Schenn at the moment.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

Having Laughton should give us a great 3rd line center for years. If Couturier can develop we have the choice of trading him or Schenn. And of course we won't know if we're getting yet another center in the next draft.

[brelic]

@brelic

Having Laughton should give us a great 3rd line center for years. If Couturier can develop we have the choice of trading him or Schenn. And of course we won't know if we're getting yet another center in the next draft.

Are MacKinnon or Drouin centers? I mean, if you get one of those guys, then Schenn and Couturier become somewhat expendable. So the smart move is to do nothing until after the draft (or at the draft).

[flyercanuck]

MacKinnon is a center. Drouin plays right wing.

[aziz]

the point i keep trying to make is that Couturier's weak skating will never allow him to be a top 6 forward

Luc Robitaille

Just throwing that out there. One of the worst skaters ever.

Look, we all agree with everything you are saying. Couturier has looked slow, unengaged, inefficient and ineffective this season. He has, absolutely. Question is why, and what does it say about him and his career going forward. And I honestly don't know. He has a lot to work on, no doubt, but I'm not so convinced he can't or won't.

[OH1FlyersFan]

I still believe in Couturier. If he was pushing mid-twenties, I'd be a lot more concerned. Give the kid another season, maybe two. He's got a lot of growing up to do.

[doom88]

MacKinnon is a center. Drouin plays right wing.

Then the Flyers need Drouin, Jones, or to trade down a spot for the next defenseman.