Suspension for Gryba?

[ruxpin]

Shanny's fantasy video: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=60&id=245071

[pilldoc]

Found this great video on youtube. This guy Jeremy Weiss does a GREAT JOB of dissecting the play. As I stated before, it was a clean hit with an unfortunate ending for Eller. (PS Diaz's teammates should tar and feather him for giving Eller a suicidal pass!)

Edited May 3, 2013 by pilldoc

[hf101]

If Gryba "waits a second" in that situation, that can be the difference between the puck being stopped in the neutral zone and Eller, with speed, on a breakaway.

And if he lines up Eller straight on a breakaway this hit becomes legal. The other thing Gryba can do it poke check the anticipated pass.

Oh, so now players have to wait for the opponent to see the hit coming, hold up, and then hit them? This ruling is a *****g joke. And I would say the same thing if Giroux got hit that hard.

Basically waiting one second isn't really my point but it is the timing to deliver the hit once Eller is square facing forward. I'm completely fine with penalizing hits like this because Eller doesn't have time to brace himself for the hit or sidestep, stop, or whatever to lessen the blow.

WHILE explaining that the head is the principle point of contact CLEARLY shows it is not.

I disagree Rux, I see Ellers head pop up and back when hit by Gryba. By the way Eller falls to the ice he is unconscious. Eller makes no attempt to brace himself for the fall to the ice.

It isn't the worst blindside hit we've ever seen but it is exactly the hits the league wants removed from play.

[MaineFlyFan]

yeah...i have nothing to add that has not already been said. WOW. So now I guess you can get suspended in the NHL for being involved in a legal hockey play that results in another player getting injured?!?! There was not ONE SINGLE THING illegal or "dirty" about that hit......PERIOD.

This in my mind is no different than suspending the guy who was involved in the play where pronger took the stick in the face. 100% accident, nothing illegal, and a HOF's carrer was ENDED!!!......But no suspension there. (as there shouldn't have been, just to be clear...).

I know I don't need to say this here but sports are dangerous. Especially hockey....I'm actually surprised A LOT MORE players don't get hurt on a nightly basis to be honest. I think the NHL, the players, and the industry do a damn good job of keeping serious injuries to a minimum considering......but Every so often something random and tragic like this happens and they blow everything out of proportion.

Best thing that could happen from this is for Eller, #1, to be alright, and #2, come back to the media and make a statemnt that the hit was clean and HE, THE INJURED PLAYER, does not agree with the suspension. I just don't think the leauge should be sending the message they are with this suspension....on a guy with a crystal clear history......

Alright I'm done. (and I started that post with "I have nothing to add....."

Edited May 4, 2013 by MaineFlyFan

[radoran]

And if he lines up Eller straight on a breakaway this hit becomes legal. The other thing Gryba can do it poke check the anticipated pass.

Look at the video and tell me that the head was the "primary source of contact."

They just suspended a guy for two games for making a clean hit on a hit who's teammate set him up.

I really, really don't think that you can honestly say differently.

And, yes, I'll go here: If this was, say, James Neal making the same hit on, say, Kyle Okposo - no suspension. I honestly doubt he even gets the 5 and certainly not the game.

[flyercanuck]

BS call on a great hit. Diaz owes Eller an apology.

[yave1964]

I read in a book where Gordie Howe told young Mark one time the best analogy for a pass ever: "You should treat the puck like a pile of cow ****. The slower you move it the more flies it draws." Diaz threw a soft pass over the middle to Eller who was destroyed by Gryba. Soft passes draw flies, soft passes draw crunching checks. Clean hit.

[yave1964]

And if you want to suspend someone for the principal point of contact being the head, suspend the ice. Gryba lead shoulder to shoulder in a split second play, but the ice went for his head. actually, the face.

[radoran]

Shanny's fantasy video: http://video.nhl.com...id=60&id=245071

OK, this is as you say - ridiculous.

The head is an incidental point of contact with Eller. The "primary point of contact" is where the "primary" force of the hit goes - and that is clearly into the upper body of Eller.

The game is too fast to parse this frame by frame. For example, I see Eller looking directly at Gryba as the hit is happening - frame-by-frame. Clearly there is no chance for him to react.

I agree with Shanahan that the pass itself has nothing to do with whether or not this was a good hit or not. It *did* result in the contact, however, and players *should* know not to put their teammates into that position.

Now, the fun part: Shanahan explicitly states that they believe Gryba didn't intend to cause injury with this play.

The five minute major and the game misconduct specifically states "intent to injure" as one of the criteria.

[ruxpin]

OK, this is as you say - ridiculous.

The head is an incidental point of contact with Eller. The "primary point of contact" is where the "primary" force of the hit goes - and that is clearly into the upper body of Eller.

The game is too fast to parse this frame by frame. For example, I see Eller looking directly at Gryba as the hit is happening - frame-by-frame. Clearly there is no chance for him to react.

I agree with Shanahan that the pass itself has nothing to do with whether or not this was a good hit or not. It *did* result in the contact, however, and players *should* know not to put their teammates into that position.

Now, the fun part: Shanahan explicitly states that they believe Gryba didn't intend to cause injury with this play.

The five minute major and the game misconduct specifically states "intent to injure" as one of the criteria.

Agree with everything you said. There's so much wrong with this decision we could list one thing per post and end up with over a hundred posts. This has to be in the top five ridiculous suspensions I've ever seen, if not the MOST ridiculous.

Sorry, @hf101, out of respect to you I'm deliberately not responding to your post.

[hf101]

Look at the video and tell me that the head was the "primary source of contact."

They just suspended a guy for two games for making a clean hit on a hit who's teammate set him up.

I really, really don't think that you can honestly say differently.

And, yes, I'll go here: If this was, say, James Neal making the same hit on, say, Kyle Okposo - no suspension. I honestly doubt he even gets the 5 and certainly not the game.

I still see the video as Eller's chin is the point of contact. Watch his head snap up and back. He is out cold from the hit. I really don't see this hit as clean. To me it is in the definition of a blindside hit that the league is trying to rid itself off since the Richard's - Booth hit.

I do think if Neal makes the same hit on Okposo with the same amount of damage caused.....the penalty is the same. However if either player makes a similar hit without a knockout shot to the chin.....then no foul.

Just to put a different spin on this how the hell is Eller knocked out prior to planting his face on the ice if the hit is not a headshot?

[MaineFlyFan]

"Just to put a different spin on this how the hell is Eller knocked out prior to planting his face on the ice if the hit is not a headshot?"

See.... I don't believe for a second that Eller was knocked out before he hit the ice....not for a second. The hit spins him around and his face smashes off the ice knockinghim out....there is NO WAY he was unconsious from that hit.....in my opionion....NO WAY.

[hf101]

"Just to put a different spin on this how the hell is Eller knocked out prior to planting his face on the ice if the hit is not a headshot?"

See.... I don't believe for a second that Eller was knocked out before he hit the ice....not for a second. The hit spins him around and his face smashes off the ice knockinghim out....there is NO WAY he was unconsious from that hit.....in my opionion....NO WAY.

Then why doesn't Eller brace himself at all for the fall? A conscious player would fall on his hands and forearms as a reflex. Instead Ellers arms are limp and out to the side. I think he was out cold.

[ruxpin]

I still see the video as Eller's chin is the point of contact. Watch his head snap up and back. He is out cold from the hit. I really don't see this hit as clean. To me it is in the definition of a blindside hit that the league is trying to rid itself off since the Richard's - Booth hit.

I do think if Neal makes the same hit on Okposo with the same amount of damage caused.....the penalty is the same. However if either player makes a similar hit without a knockout shot to the chin.....then no foul.

Just to put a different spin on this how the hell is Eller knocked out prior to planting his face on the ice if the hit is not a headshot?

I'm sorry. I do NOT see a hit to the chin. At full speed, slow motion, or frame by frame. I just don't. Primarily because there simply isn't one. His head hits him in the back shoulder blade subsequent to his being hit in the hip and the chest. It is very hard plastic. The combination of the whipping action from the unsuspected hit and the head hitting the hard plastic (which is what should be outlawed, by the way) is what makes him lose consciousness. It's really not that hard to explain.

[hf101]

I'm sorry. I do NOT see a hit to the chin. At full speed, slow motion, or frame by frame. I just don't. Primarily because there simply isn't one. His head hits him in the back shoulder blade subsequent to his being hit in the hip and the chest. It is very hard plastic. The combination of the whipping action from the unsuspected hit and the head hitting the hard plastic (which is what should be outlawed, by the way) is what makes him lose consciousness. It's really not that hard to explain.

I see it differently I guess, I see the hit on the left side of his jaw ( a better explanation than chin) and then the quick snap (up and back) of Ellers head. I see the head snap best in the above view at the 54 sec mark of the Shanny video.

[flyerrod]

I see it differently I guess, I see the hit on the left side of his jaw ( a better explanation than chin) and then the quick snap (up and back) of Ellers head. I see the head snap best in the above view at the 54 sec mark of the Shanny video.

I really think rux is right on this one. Gryba's primary point of contact is shoulder to chest/shoulder. However, Eller's head whips forward smashing his chin onto the shoulder pad as rux says and that blunt force to the button on the chin is the easiest way to knock someone out.

[radoran]

Shanahan agrees that he was not "targeting" the head.

He agrees there was no "intent to injure"

Again, I see a situation where the head contact is incidental to the play - not the primary focus of it.

Honestly, although it was at the other blue line, it's got an eerie resemblance to the Stevens hit on Lindros.

Also, in real time, Eller has precious little chance to "brace himself" even if he wasn't already at least woozy from taking the hit. I do think that impact with the ice did more damage than the original hit itself.

Lastly, I don't really want a game in which a guy can make dangerous passes, another can put themselves in harm's way to receive it and the guy that is in legal position to stop the play is the one most penalized (aside from the obvious connotations of the concussion).

If you're approaching either blue line and are stretching yourself out across open ice, you're essentially walking into a two way street without looking.

[MaineFlyFan]

Then why doesn't Eller brace himself at all for the fall? A conscious player would fall on his hands and forearms as a reflex. Instead Ellers arms are limp and out to the side. I think he was out cold.

Fair enough argument....

my thinking is that the hit "spun him around" so much and startled him that he didn't know up from down and led with his head.......either way I don't see this as a suspendable hit. What was he supposed to do?? let him skate by and have a break-away?? risk the same outcome with a "poke check"??....Not if I'm coach. I tell that player to make that EXACT same hit the EXACT same way EVERY time. Body to Body.....unfortunate landing

[Polaris922]

I'm gonna don my helmet and join @hf101 on the firing line for this one. Gryba may not have meant to do it, but in the videos I'm seeing I think Gryba hits Eller in the chin with his shoulder initially and follows through the chest. As HF points out Eller's head snaps back before any other shockwave goes through his torso. He is clearly unconscious as he's falling, and I disagree with the idea that the chest was hit THEN his head hit the shoulder pad. The head whipping back is the very first sign of any contact. I don't think it was done with malice but full on reckless.

[radoran]

I don't think it was done with malice but full on reckless.

Full on reckless is Diaz making the pass (which has nothing to do with the hit, but sets up) and Eller stretching out over open ice at the defensive blue line.

@MaineFlyFan has it right - that is the play you want your defensive player to make in that situation. 101 times out of 100.

It's the reckless actions of the other two players that caused the injury.

[flyerrod]

I'm gonna don my helmet and join @hf101 on the firing line for this one. Gryba may not have meant to do it, but in the videos I'm seeing I think Gryba hits Eller in the chin with his shoulder initially and follows through the chest.

Which videos are these? The ones Shanahan uses looks like shoulder to chest. If you have seen different definitive video I really would love a link to it.......and for the record, I am not asking because I am generally a smart ass I am asking because I have seen NO video evidence of which you speak.

[hf101]

@flyerrod

I doubt Polaris is viewing any different video than the rest of us. Re-watch the Shanny video. While watching it try to answer the following two questions. As I mentioned above the 54 sec mark in the overhead video is the most telling, imo.

1. How does Eller get knocked unconscious, because he is clearly out prior to hitting the ice?

2. What caused Eller's head to so sharply snap back?

[Polaris922]

@flyerrod

The same ones posted here. I DO see the head as at least simultaneous as the initial point if impact. His shoulder clearly is above Eller's chest height. Gryba forearm may hit the chest, or follow through hits the chest, but I have damn good eyes and I see the shoulder pad hit the face quite clearly.

[radoran]

@flyerrod

The same ones posted here. I DO see the head as at least simultaneous as the initial point if impact. His shoulder clearly is above Eller's chest height. Gryba forearm may hit the chest, or follow through hits the chest, but I have damn good eyes and I see the shoulder pad hit the face quite clearly.

I'm gonna go ahead an speculate that his shoulder is also above his chest height. He's also got two inches on Eller. And Eller is leaning over.

I'll go to another Lindros hit - Andreas Dackle. The much smaller Dackle cringed in the corner and got hammered by the larger Lindros. Dackle keep his composure and take the hit solid, he doesn't put his head into Lindros' shoulder.

I'm willing to listen to a legitimate description of what was so egregious about this hit.

I still haven't heard it.

[flyerrod]

@Polaris922

@hf101

I have to agree with Kerry Fraser and the rest of the TSN panel on this one. From either view they show, the principal contact is shoulder/body to chest with his head whiplashing into Gryba's shoulder.