The KHL problem

[yave1964]

The Kontinental Hockey League is not an inferior league where players are dying to jump out of and come to the United States and Canada to make a fortune and marry a woman with less armpit hair and a smaller mustache than they have. The KHL is a genuine threat to the NHL and it will get worse moving forward.

The KHL has been laughed at by uninformed hockey fans since their inception. Big mistake. Truth is they don't have but a half dozen arenas that are up to NHL standards, and the ownership is dominated by men with less than stellar reputations, more than a few would even be considered sleazy, at least.

What they do have is money by the bucket full and a desire to build their league. Even their planes and pilots were forced to improve since the tragic Lokomotiv Yaroslavl incident a few years ago. To just write them of as your Fathers Russian league, or even your older brothers league would be a huge mistake. A weary eye needs to be cast.

About six months ago I wrote that the day was coming when a Russian in their prime would return home spurning North American Gold for even more gold at home, and once one, than more would follow. Pavel Datsyuk seriously considered it before signing a three year extension with the Wings, it was not a ploy to squeeze out more money. More will follow. And look at Kuznetsov of the Capitals, easily their top prospect who has continued to exasperate the club by staying in Russia and the KHL for four years now. Supposedly he is coming to Washington next season. Supposedly.

Now here is the kicker, I predict that next year, or at the latest the following will happen:

A BIG NAME NORTH AMERICAN BOY WILL SIGN AS A FREE AGENT IN RUSSIA.

It is going to happen. I am convinced that if it weren't for the tragic plane crash it would have happened before now. Imagine if David Clarkson had signed in Russia instead of Toronto. Six million Canadian dollars with current tax rates versus ten million dollars in Russia.

I know that people talk about the Russians don't honor their contracts, simply a myth when it comes t this leaue, at least to north Americans and superstars. Kovy and Radulov are in their prime, they are the first shots, not the last. Grabovski may wind up there. And bank it, book it, within the next year to two tops we will start seeing North American big boys going there too. We almost lost O'reilly from the Avalanche during the lockout.

I predict within five years it will be the biggest topic in the game, and within ten years the new hockey summit will be NHL stars against the KHL stars in a super series. And we will have Russians on our team, they will have North American stars on theirs. This is not in some distant future long after we have all shuffled off of the stage, this is within a decade.

Sound flaky and something t be dismissed as unrealistic? Did it sound unrealistic that a super Russian league would steal home one of their own superstars to be the face of the league? Or that realistically they can pay their players more than we can? Not saying it is right or wrong, just saying it is going to happen. Stay tuned.

[Digityman]

@yave1964 Good points all around.

If it does start going the way you describe, you'd also have to assume that any Russians in the draft would be pushed much lower down the list. There's already an uneasiness with taking a Russian player higher in the draft, could you imagine in 2-3 years if what you describe comes to fruition?

[brelic]

I agree, good points, and not a stretch to think some players might prefer to play in Russia, including NA born players.

But what's the problem? If the KHL becomes a better league, I can see myself following that league instead. Or if the NHL were to break up into a US league and a Canadian league (not so much a possibility now as it might have been a decade or two ago), then I guess I my "team" might change as well.

In fact, healthy competition to the NHL is a much needed thing. Maybe help them make the game better (eliminate shootouts, weed out weak markets, etc).

Change is constant. It's ok.

[flyerrod]

We were discussing possible ramnifications of these moves in the shout box today. We are still trying to figure out how a player locked in to a mammoth contract(Kovalchuk) is able to simply change his mind and go play in the KHL and no buyout required and no penalty to the Devils. It is a win/win for the Devils as they shed and inordinate amount of cap at ZERO cost....I mean seriously Bryz wanted to play in the KHL, right?

[phlfly]

it's bs since you didn't even live there or have relative in Russia. None of N. American respectful player will go there and live, because everyday mode of life is bad, environment is bad, none of their wives be able to survive more than one year, and she will take kids back to N. America.

The long flight and travel make is undesirable place to sign.

We don't know why Kovalchuk went back but my guess it's his wife wanted back to Russia and sing again, may be relatives are sick , maybe he found another woman there. Well we don't know why but it should be a reason. It's easy for me or Kovalkchuk or Ov back to Russia, but none of you (Americans) will go along there for long time. Even people in Russia, like my friend moved to Finland to make sure his son can play hockey in Finland and have better everyday mode of life.

Believe me it’s harsh life there.

Edited July 12, 2013 by phlfly

[yave1964]

We were discussing possible ramnifications of these moves in the shout box today. We are still trying to figure out how a player locked in to a mammoth contract(Kovalchuk) is able to simply change his mind and go play in the KHL and no buyout required and no penalty to the Devils. It is a win/win for the Devils as they shed and inordinate amount of cap at ZERO cost....I mean seriously Bryz wanted to play in the KHL, right?

From what I have read the Devils were allowed out based on the fact that they are in a financial pickle. But with a wink and a nod by Bettman towards the rules he has set a precedent for future players trying to do the same thing.

One thing nobody is talking about yet, but I could see it down the road is expansion into Europe. Sweden and Russia and to a lesser extent other Countries like Finland have solid leagues, it is possible with todays world that we could see expansion coming some day. Already the NFL is talking about placing a team in London, so who knows?

[yave1964]

it's bs since you didn't even live there or have relative in Russia. None of N. American respectful player will go there and live, because everyday mode of life is bad, environment is bad, none of their wives be able to survive more than one year, and she will take kids back to N. America.

The long flight and travel make is undesirable place to sign.

We don't know why Kovalchuk went back but my guess it's his wife wanted back to Russia and sing again, may be relatives are sick , maybe he found another woman there. Well we don't know why but it should be a reason. It's easy for me or Kovalkchuk or Ov back to Russia, but none of you (Americans) will go along there for long time. Even people in Russia, like my friend moved to Finland to make sure his son can play hockey in Finland and have better everyday mode of life.

Believe me it’s harsh life there.

No argument about the lifestyle there, but lets face it, Detroit and Jersey aren't exactly the Garden of Eden themselves. And there is one hell of a difference between the lifestyle of a famous athlete making millions of tax free dollars and an average citizen, there and here. To write them off is a huge mistake.

[radoran]

No argument about the lifestyle there, but lets face it, Detroit and Jersey aren't exactly the Garden of Eden themselves. And there is one hell of a difference between the lifestyle of a famous athlete making millions of tax free dollars and an average citizen, there and here. To write them off is a huge mistake.

The idea that someone making $10 million in Russia is experiencing life like the "average" Russian is insane.

And the example of Finland or Sweden or Czech or Slovak players deciding to stay over there is a very real one. What happens if Jake gets a big offer? The KHL is also not "just in Russia" anymore. I'd live in Prague making $10 million in a heartbeat. Bratislava and Zagreb aren't exactly pits of hell like, oh, say, Detroit or Winnipeg ()

Omsk? Magnitigorsk? Not so much. But you don't have to play there and you certainly don't have to pick an Eastern Conference team.

[brelic]

The idea that someone making $10 million in Russia is experiencing life like the "average" Russian is insane.

And the example of Finland or Sweden or Czech or Slovak players deciding to stay over there is a very real one. What happens if Jake gets a big offer? The KHL is also not "just in Russia" anymore. I'd live in Prague making $10 million in a heartbeat. Bratislava and Zagreb aren't exactly pits of hell like, oh, say, Detroit or Winnipeg ( )

Omsk? Magnitigorsk? Not so much. But you don't have to play there and you certainly don't have to pick an Eastern Conference team.

The money comes with strings attached though. Emery went into some detail the first time around here. Even if your team isn't playing anymore (eliminated), you need to keep going to practices to collect your money. I think he said he only received half of what he was promised.

And, travel isn't as glamourous. Maybe it's changed in the last four years, but Emery said he was basically sleeping on a cot in a gymnasium when travelling for away games.

[phlfly]

even living in St.Petersburg is crazy (i'm from there), most car don't have catalytic converter so imagine the smell in the traffic, even you are in S-class Benz. Yes of course, his family can live outside city, but they will need to built 10 feet brick wall, well nice living, looks like you are free man but behind brick wall like a prison with cameras around. Education sucks even the private schools, I will never take my kids to live there, well they can chose go back there if they like so.

To really understand take a trip to Russia for vacation, you can use Norwegian cruise it stops in St Peter for 2-3 days.

[flyercanuck]

@phlfly

My nephew played over there twice. His wife just could not handle it.. He said it wasn't too bad playing in Moscow, but if you're in one of those industrial cities in the middle of nowhere it's just hell. There's obviously a reason you moved over to NA.

[yave1964]

If we keep talking about how lousy it is over there and falling for all of our own propaganda it will be the worst thing we can do.

Does Russia have a sub standard living for the lower class?

Yes. So do we.

Does Russia have crime and grime and filth and a substandard education system?

You bet. So do we.

Can Russia treat their star players like kings and their wives like queens to lure them over?

Absolutely, and so can we.

It is a reality we have to face. They are catching up to us and we need to keep an eye on them. I am not a cold warrior believe me, this is not a USA versus the Soviet Satan rant, this is a simple reality. A European Super league may be a reality sooner than later then good players, not over the hill vets looking for one last paycheck or kids who are not quite good enough will be gone like a cool breeze. Ignore the threat to our North American game at your own peril.

[flyercanuck]

@yave1964

I'll take my nephews word for it. And phlflys. They've both experienced it. Like phlfly said, it's one thing for a Russian player to go home. It's completely different for a North American to take his wife and kids over there to live.

[radoran]

The money comes with strings attached though. Emery went into some detail the first time around here. Even if your team isn't playing anymore (eliminated), you need to keep going to practices to collect your money. I think he said he only received half of what he was promised.

And, travel isn't as glamourous. Maybe it's changed in the last four years, but Emery said he was basically sleeping on a cot in a gymnasium when travelling for away games.

For rank and file, I'm not surprised if that's the case. For the $10 million player? I think he can afford a hotel.

At the very least, there's the "Jordan effect" where the AA team's bus is suddenly a luxury liner.

Travel isn't very glamorous anywhere anymore. You think flying Buffalo to Raleigh is a lot of fun?

To really understand take a trip to Russia for vacation, you can use Norwegian cruise it stops in St Peter for 2-3 days.

My mom's touring the Volga right now. Says its lovely. Been there a week already.

Again, a Viking River Cruise ain't what the average person experiences. Nor is what a $10M hockey player would.

[radoran]

@yave1964

I'll take my nephews word for it. And phlflys. They've both experienced it. Like phlfly said, it's one thing for a Russian player to go home. It's completely different for a North American to take his wife and kids over there to live.

Right, but yave said "North American Boy" - imagine your Alexandre Daigle getting a $10M offer from SKA while getting a SPC slotted amount from his drafting team.

Cash in early, come back to the NHL later.

Plausible?

[yave1964]

@yave1964

I'll take my nephews word for it. And phlflys. They've both experienced it. Like phlfly said, it's one thing for a Russian player to go home. It's completely different for a North American to take his wife and kids over there to live.

I understand the difference of a foreign county, I lived in Germany as both a solder and as a civilian. My wife got homesick as hell and that is how we wound up back stateside. Valid points all around. Hell, even when Quebec had the Nords John Ogrodnick and many other English only speaking players were so miserable they practically would have paid there own way out of town. Lindros didn't want to go there. I get that, like I said, not everyone will go but some will. Hudler returned to Europe for a huge payday before returning. So did Jagr. This is happening more and more

What about a single guy? Ten million a year tax free to hang and bang in Moscow for a couple of seasons versus three million a year to play or Winnipeg or Detroit or the Blues? You have to admit it would be tempting to some players and some will take the chance

[phlfly]

If we keep talking about how lousy it is over there and falling for all of our own propaganda it will be the worst thing we can do.

Does Russia have a sub standard living for the lower class?

Yes. So do we.

Does Russia have crime and grime and filth and a substandard education system?

You bet. So do we.

Can Russia treat their star players like kings and their wives like queens to lure them over?

Absolutely, and so can we.

It is a reality we have to face. They are catching up to us and we need to keep an eye on them. I am not a cold warrior believe me, this is not a USA versus the Soviet Satan rant, this is a simple reality. A European Super league may be a reality sooner than later then good players, not over the hill vets looking for one last paycheck or kids who are not quite good enough will be gone like a cool breeze. Ignore the threat to our North American game at your own peril.

Does Russia have a sub standard living for the lower class?

NO, there are some places but for very rich people, there is no or almost no middle class. There is poor and very rich by Russia standards and crazy rich.

Does Russia have crime and grime and filth and a substandard education system?

You bet. So do we. well it's there it's kind different crime, they steal everything that is not put away for their eye.. People have doors made of steel for their apartments. Most people are live in apartment/condo, but it's very different then US condo, Russian condo has not definition of how man bedroom, it's only definition is rooms and kitchen and hall way.

About education, well it’s somehow US education system is bad shape as well but there is even worse, they fight with teacher, curse, they could beat them after school, well I tell you it’s crazy, but they have good teachers and very good college education, and a lot smart young people.But drinking, sex and drugs at 13-14 well known fact. Young girls are getting first child at 18 age, all across the country.

Can Russia treat their star players like kings and their wives like queens to lure them over?

NO, they don't give a f about players, like any other Russian neighbor don't care about other one. If you are going to be beaten or kill on street, you may lucky someone call police, but remember it's not 911 response, by the time it will be there you might be dead.

[radoran]

What about a single guy? Ten million a year tax free to hang and bang in Moscow for a couple of seasons versus three million a year to play or Winnipeg or Detroit or the Blues? You have to admit it would be tempting to some players and some will take the chance

Doesn't really have to even be $10M. With a SPC starting out at $1M and change, even a $2.5/3M offer could be attractive, especially given the tax situation.

Go over, play your 3-5 RFA years, come back and cash the NHL in later.

Sure, they might need to come back in on a Read-type deal, but the long-term prospects plus the money in the bank could certainly be an option.

There will be NHL teams who are willing to take players back under those circumstances. I'll wager some team would even take a shot at Radulov again given the opportunity.

[phlfly]

For rank and file, I'm not surprised if that's the case. For the $10 million player? I think he can afford a hotel.

At the very least, there's the "Jordan effect" where the AA team's bus is suddenly a luxury liner.

Travel isn't very glamorous anywhere anymore. You think flying Buffalo to Raleigh is a lot of fun?

My mom's touring the Volga right now. Says its lovely. Been there a week already.

Again, a Viking River Cruise ain't what the average person experiences. Nor is what a $10M hockey player would.

traveling is always nice, when you paid big buck to travel agency. Also when you have a choice back to US anytime.

[B21]

Can Russia treat their star players like kings and their wives like queens to lure them over?

NO, they don't give a f about players, like any other Russian neighbor don't care about other one. If you are going to be beaten or kill on street, you may lucky someone call police, but remember it's not 911 response, by the time it will be there you might be dead.

Sean Taylor says 'hello'. I can give you any number if stories about someone getting mugged or roughed up in the US and everyone in the vicinity turning a blind eye.

It happens everywhere.

Bottom line, it's home to him and that is all that matters. And if he's making $10,000,000 a year on top of what he has made already, he'll do just fine. Safe, clean neighborhood. Good schools. Nice big house.

[phlfly]

Well players will live and back but one thing is important, NHL should keep same high standarts as any other pro league in US. There is no reason go over the sea unless it's really worth, it's like this Kovy might will get 10 or 20 mil per season, but he can lose a lot, there is not everything nice even looks nice.

I would not go.

I have offers to work in germany and UK now, but I don't go since it's pain to move, then I have friends here already and I want to keep them, I already lost my all friend by moving to US.

[radoran]

traveling is always nice, when you paid big buck to travel agency. Also when you have a choice back to US anytime.

I was saying, she's doing essentially what you suggested people do to get a feeling for what Russia's like

I can't help it if the reality doesn't fit your description.

That's your problem, as always.

If you're making tax-free millions you are living life as a big buck travel agency.

[brelic]

Right, but yave said "North American Boy" - imagine your Alexandre Daigle getting a $10M offer from SKA while getting a SPC slotted amount from his drafting team.

Cash in early, come back to the NHL later.

Plausible?

And again, I don't see the problem. If the KHL is a grand illusion, then young NA kids will figure that out soon enough, stories will make the rounds, and it probably won't happen very often.

If it is for real, then the NHL will have to adjust itself to compete in a global marketplace for players. I really don't see the downside. Competition is a good thing.

[radoran]

And again, I don't see the problem. If the KHL is a grand illusion, then young NA kids will figure that out soon enough, stories will make the rounds, and it probably won't happen very often.

If it is for real, then the NHL will have to adjust itself to compete in a global marketplace for players. I really don't see the downside. Competition is a good thing.

Yeah, exactly.

[phlfly]

I was saying, she's doing essentially what you suggested people do to get a feeling for what Russia's like

I can't help it if the reality doesn't fit your description.

That's your problem, as always.

If you're making tax-free millions you are living life as a big buck travel agency.

Fortunately I lived there, and all money will not buy me back at least now

.

it's exact same thing like people elected Obama here, I know one thing that you had never experienced in your life. A lot left Americans are idealist, so they think it's all going be same well nothing will be same, our (Russia) went from Number 1 industrial country in the world (1900) to civil war then terror, then war again, then steel curtains time, full monarchy and then swing steel man leadership

Edited July 12, 2013 by phlfly