The Elephant in the Room: #28

[BearOnIce]

Could it still all be stemming from the injury he recieved over in Europe during the lockout?  I agree...something is not quite right with him or with this team...

 

Claude Girouz has post-concussion. Pretty obvious.

[delcofan]

He might also be a bit gun shy after the concussion issue.

 

My sense is that's the problem with G.  It may even go back to the year before when he was hit in the head by Simmonds knee.  

For someone who was able to play during the lockout, I thought G looked off when the season started last year.  There's an aggressive edge that's been missing in his game.  He seems less likely to head full speed into a scrum, through a shoulder and emerge with the puck which like how he made a physical name for himself in the past.

 

I still think he's a very good player, but to be great he needs to mix in the physicality with the talent and intensity.  I think fear of another concussion is holding him back a little.

[BearOnIce]

Just look at the "logic" behind each of the moves.

 

Primeau - was essentially traded for to replace Lindros. Putting the C on him was the final part of that replacement. Had a good playoff run, lost the C due to injury.

 

Hatcher - injured when he got it, very much playing out the string. A great leader elsewhere who simply wasn't going to have the time to do it in Philly.

 

Forsberg - Again, IMO, an attempt to vanquish the Lindros Ghost. "Put the C on your best player" even if he had never been captain of a team at any level. Injured when he got it, "Footpa" never took off in Philly. Traded to Nashville.

 

Smith - With former captains Briere and Timonen on the roster and signed long term, management picks the elderly journeyman signed on a one-year deal. He leaves after the season. 

 

Richards - Was "captain in waiting" before he had played an NHL game. "The Next Bobby Clarke." Thrust into the role with, again, two former captains on the roster and a third veteran captain who had never played second fiddle to anyone except Scott Neidermeyer added later to "help." Signed to a 12-year deal. Makes it to the Cup Final, at which point there are rumors about a vet/youth split in the locker room. And, yes, partying and whatever. Traded to Los Angeles before his NMC took effect.

 

Pronger - Never having played second fiddle to anyone but Scott Neidermeyer, is given the C and a long term 35+ contract to go with it. Gets injured and career ends.

 

Giroux - The new, new face of the franchise. Thrust into a position of responsibility and team misses playoffs for first time in six years.

 

I didn't understand then and don't understand now most of these decisions. Giroux blossomed under the cover provided by more experienced leaders like Timonen and Briere. I do think that failing to put Kimmo in instead of Smith was a fatal mistake for the team. Said so then. Timonen was the perfect bridge guy to Richards, who could take the reins in his late 20s and ride as captain for a deade.

 

But since Crosby and Toews got the C early, the Flyers, IMO, felt that they had to give it to their younger player as well. They are a knee-jerk reactionary group that allows their decisions to be coloured and shaped by the moves of those around them.

 

When I look at Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston and Detroit, that's not how I see those franchises being run,

 

 

 

He's seriously afraid of not seeing another Cup win.

 

Nothing changes until Snider is potted up on Lemon Hill with the rest of the Sniders. I have never understood why there is such reverence for this guy, just another rich guy sucking the hard eaned money from the pockets of local sports fans. Two Cups in 40 years is an abberation in a style of play that has long left the NHL. 

[jammer2]

To point #2, I would add this offseason too.

 

You've got the young guys that you're brining along and expect them to take a step (like Coots, Schenn, and possibly Laughton), but then you sign VL because you're impatient.

 

You have Gus as an up and coming PMD, homegrown, and young. But you sign Streit because you're impatient.

 

You have the "most athletic goaltender" you've ever seen, but you sign an aging goaltender to 9 years because you're impatient. 

 

In all of these cases, it demonstrates impatience and not trusting your own players. And in all cases the team overcommitted.

 

The Flyers are becoming a caricature of themselves.

 

 

 Great post, been saying that stuff for a while now. Striet is not only brutal in his own end and a defensive liability, his presence stunts the growth of Gus big time. No patience as you said. A lot of it has to do with Homer and his job security. He will continually make moves which make us better now, with no eye to the future, in order to save his sorry ass. Sickening, really.

 

 Vinny is making me eat my words right now, but let's see if he continues to be excellent, or starts to take shifts/games/weeks off as was the case in Tampa. I was not even concerned about this year, thought he would be more than respectable, it's the last few years of the deal that will haunt us, like SO MANY of Homer's deals.

 

 I'm so sick of filling every conceivable hole with high priced vets. This cycle will not stop until Ed dies. 

[pilldoc]

 I'm so sick of filling every conceivable hole with high priced vets. This cycle will not stop until Ed dies. 

Sadly..that is probably the truth.

[icehole]

I think you're onto something there. We all fell in love with him because of what he did in the playoffs his first partial season when Richards and carter were here. Then he had a a decent season. Then Richards and carter left, he took on a bigger role, pronger goes down, and giroux becomes captain by default. Then it's the typical lul after a players signs a big deal. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have signed him, but he isn't living up to what we expected. Imagine if Crosby didn't have a point and was a -1 in three losses...we don't expect that to ever happen.

Also, I've been blaming the defense but you should come out with at least one point if your defense only gives up 2 goals...especially when the other goalie is Khudobin. I'll give the defense an A if they can keep teams to 2 goals a game. I'll give the offense an F- if they average 1 goal a game. They have no plan or chemistry. They just go up and down the ice hoping that something will develop.

[Polaris922]

What if Giroux is a really good player but not great? A .85 point per game guy who had one season where he just outdid himself? Those kinds of guys are still top dollar, and nothing to be ashamed of, but don't score every game.

I haven't seen him yet this year, and judging from your comments I get it that he's been a bit off out there, but ALL players have bad streaks. Even the Lemieux's and Gretzky's went a few games here and there without points.

The guy scored .979 points per game last year. That's pretty damn good.

Tell ya what... I'll trade you Tanner Glass for him, but ONLY if you absorb most of his salary.

[doom88]

What if Giroux is a really good player but not great? A .85 point per game guy who had one season where he just outdid himself? Those kinds of guys are still top dollar, and nothing to be ashamed of, but don't score every game.

I haven't seen him yet this year, and judging from your comments I get it that he's been a bit off out there, but ALL players have bad streaks. Even the Lemieux's and Gretzky's went a few games here and there without points.

The guy scored .979 points per game last year. That's pretty damn good.

Tell ya what... I'll trade you Tanner Glass for him, but ONLY if you absorb most of his salary.

Throw in Malkin, holding back his salary and it's a deal

[Polaris922]

Throw in Malkin, holding back his salary and it's a deal

Hahaha!

[murraycraven]

Malkin has to wear a mask though... Otherwise he might frighten the children in Philly

[radoran]

What if Giroux is a really good player but not great? A .85 point per game guy who had one season where he just outdid himself? Those kinds of guys are still top dollar, and nothing to be ashamed of, but don't score every game.

I haven't seen him yet this year, and judging from your comments I get it that he's been a bit off out there, but ALL players have bad streaks. Even the Lemieux's and Gretzky's went a few games here and there without points.

The guy scored .979 points per game last year. That's pretty damn good.

Tell ya what... I'll trade you Tanner Glass for him, but ONLY if you absorb most of his salary.

 

My math could be off, but I believe 48 points in 48 games is pretty much a 1.000 point per game average.

 

I think he's a 25/"82" guy who can be an integral part of making a line more than the sum of its parts. That, for me is where the higher production with Jagr came from. With another player who can create that sort of space, Giroux becomes much more dangerous. As the focal point of a line, I think he can be relatively neutralized.

[murraycraven]

My math could be off, but I believe 48 points in 48 games is pretty much a 1.000 point per game average.

I think he's a 25/"82" guy who can be an integral part of making a line more than the sum of its parts. That, for me is where the higher production with Jagr came from. With another player who can create that sort of space, Giroux becomes much more dangerous. As the focal point of a line, I think he can be relatively neutralized.

Agreed!

[Polaris922]

My math could be off, but I believe 48 points in 48 games is pretty much a 1.000 point per game average.

I think he's a 25/"82" guy who can be an integral part of making a line more than the sum of its parts. That, for me is where the higher production with Jagr came from. With another player who can create that sort of space, Giroux becomes much more dangerous. As the focal point of a line, I think he can be relatively neutralized.

My fault for trusting a Flyers fan's stat from this thread rather than looking it up myself. I should know better than to trust Flyers fans to get anything right by now.

[Samifan]

Giroux has to be still feeling the effect of his recent finger/hand surgery, right? What other explanation could there be for him being pointless 5 games into the season and being a turnover machine? He has a decent shot but he is insisting on doing that dipsy doodle bullshit rather than shooting when given an open look.

 

I'm not a doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently and I say he is still hurting.

[brelic]

Giroux has to be still feeling the effect of his recent finger/hand surgery, right? What other explanation could there be for him being pointless 5 games into the season and being a turnover machine? He has a decent shot but he is insisting on doing that dipsy doodle bullshit rather than shooting when given an open look.

 

I'm not a doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently and I say he is still hurting.

 

Call me crazy, but taking away his linemate Voracek probably wasn't the best idea. I remember watching them last year, and seeing the chemistry develop over the season. It was really exciting to see. It was very much like a Jagr/Giroux combo. 

 

And then for no reason, they move him away from Giroux.

 

I'd start looking there.

[Samifan]

@bre

 

I have not seen much of the Berube Era, but isn't Jake back on the line with him?

[brelic]

@bre

 

I have not seen much of the Berube Era, but isn't Jake back on the line with him?

 

No, he's with Vinny and Schenn.

 

Giroux was saddled with Simmonds and Hartnell.

 

Because of injuries, it looks like tonight we'll see Schenn/Giroux/Voracek.

 

I betcha that line generates two goals tonight.

[Samifan]

thanks for clarifying.

 

I can't believe there is actually a Berube Era. :unsure:

[doom88]

B Schenn has 2 goals, what's Giroux's excuse? Mike Richards had crap linemates and still got it done. He needs to cut out the fancy crap and work on the basics.

[murraycraven]

B Schenn has 2 goals, what's Giroux's excuse? Mike Richards had crap linemates and still got it done. He needs to cut out the fancy crap and work on the basics.

 

 

Well said Doom... very well said and I agree.  

 

8 more years at 8M - yikes!   I love Giroux but I just dont see him as a 8M player... he is not in the Crosby/Malkin category as much as it hurts to say it.

[radoran]

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=686382

 

“One day I’ll wake up and breathe and be ready to play,” said Claude Giroux on Tuesday night. 

[murraycraven]

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=686382

“One day I’ll wake up and breathe and be ready to play,” said Claude Giroux on Tuesday night.

That quote does not instill much confidence...

[EDI-Flyer]

Well said Doom... very well said and I agree.  

 

8 more years at 8M - yikes!   I love Giroux but I just dont see him as a 8M player... he is not in the Crosby/Malkin category as much as it hurts to say it.

 

It might look pricey now but in three or four years when the cap goes up that 8 mill will look cheap... Welcome to the new NHL. 

[murraycraven]

EDI.. I hope that is the case... Again, I love Giroux but it is time to step up his game...

[Spinorama]

It might look pricey now but in three or four years when the cap goes up that 8 mill will look cheap... Welcome to the new NHL. 

 

better not, ticket prices are high enough as is