caught up to us tonight

[CoachX]

You're not seeing it because there's nothing there. He hasn't done a single thing that has resulted in anything significant for this team. He's a total non-factor.

 

There is a real bad case of "looks good to me" amongst some folk here. They ignore reality over what their "eyes" tell them. I love a good role player as much as the next person. Some of my favorite players in recent memory have been third liners. But this guy is a complete and total non-factor. He doesn't do anything that helps the team win. They aren't screwed without him and could certainly "survive" if someone else - who has actually contributed - took his place. This guy is Somik or Thoresen. He's not going to be in the league in a year. He'll play with maybe one more team before he goes back to Europe.

 I wonder if "seeing it" is based on the hope of some hidden phenom that the team lucked out on. He has some slick skting ability and few nice stick handling moves. Maybe everyone is hoping he turns into Pavel Datsyuk

 

I imagine if giroux and Voracek were producing, any hype about Raffl would be significantly decreased

[fanaticV3.0]

@fanaticV3.0

 

But Berube, Barber, Holmgren, Stevens and Murray did. And let's not overlook Clarke as GM, President and whatever else title he held, and, Holmgren as GM

 

The point is..... in house loyalty is great, and respectible, but it isn't winning any Stanley Cups

 

Neither has hiring from outside the organization, which they've also done. If you're going to throw a blanket statement out there, at least make sure it's true. There's dozens of reasons they haven't won a championship in decades, but "hiring former players" isn't one of them. They've brought in offensive guys, defensive specialist, players coaches, disciplinarians, guys who have played here, guys who have not, and none of it has worked.

 

To be honest, I think some of the scouts, position coaches, guys upstairs are a bigger factor for the team not winning any championships than the coaches. You can't forget the players either. There's been bad coaches here for sure, but they're all on a short leash with Snider and Clarke in charge.

[fanaticV3.0]

 I wonder if "seeing it" is based on the hope of some hidden phenom that the team lucked out on. He has some slick skting ability and few nice stick handling moves. Maybe everyone is hoping he turns into Pavel Datsyuk

 

I imagine if giroux and Voracek were producing, any hype about Raffl would be significantly decreased

 

How many of the guys I mentioned in my previous post about it have we said the same exact thing about in the past? This guy isn't the next Datsyuk, he's the next Thoresen.

[mojo1917]

I imagine if giroux and Voracek were producing, any hype about Raffl would be significantly decreased

 

I Think there is a lot of truth to that statement. if our "best players" were our best players guys like Raffl could play their role without being under the microscope.

 

as it is with VLC's injury the much beloved Tye McGinn gets the call up , naturally i  expect a Gordie Howe hatrick and 4 bone crunching hits in his 15:00 + minutes now that evil Raffl isn't "blocking him".

[ruxpin]

now that evil Raffl

 

Frankly, Raffl is too utterly forgettable and irrelevant to be evil.  He's just nothing.

[mojo1917]

Frankly, Raffl is too utterly forgettable and irrelevant to be evil.  He's just nothing.

That may be, but McGinn is no daisy either.

 

Raffl is depth, so is McGinn . Depth is good.  

[ruxpin]

That may be, but McGinn is no daisy either.

 

Raffl is depth, so is McGinn . Depth is good.  

Both are arguably out of their depth. 

 

This isn't really a McGinn vs. Raffl thing for me.   Raffl just shows me absolutely nothing.  I don't believe for a second he's NHL caliber.   He's someone taking a roster spot because the front office has done such a horrible job with prospects that they couldn't find a hockey player to fill the position so they went and got an Austrian plumber from the Swedish B league.

[mojo1917]

Both are arguably out of their depth. 

 

This isn't really a McGinn vs. Raffl thing for me.   Raffl just shows me absolutely nothing.  I don't believe for a second he's NHL caliber.   He's someone taking a roster spot because the front office has done such a horrible job with prospects that they couldn't find a hockey player to fill the position so they went and got an Austrian plumber from the Swedish B league.

you know i wasjusthisclose to writing about how if those are our depth guys our team must be pretty mediocre... but i didn't. Trying to stay positive but its difficult when the best players aren't very good and the hot prospects are weak on the puck , slow and unable to break into the NHL.  

 

Tough to root for a team that you know is fatally flawed and locked into those flaws for a long time.  So think of my comment as whistling past the graveyard.

[ruxpin]

you know i wasjusthisclose to writing about how if those are our depth guys our team must be pretty mediocre... but i didn't. Trying to stay positive but its difficult when the best players aren't very good and the hot prospects are weak on the puck , slow and unable to break into the NHL.  

 

Tough to root for a team that you know is fatally flawed and locked into those flaws for a long time.  So think of my comment as whistling past the graveyard.

 

 

I think we are now singing (whistling?) pretty much the same tune.   (Do you know "Graveyard Waltz" by The Hooters?  Can we whistle that one?)

[radoran]

That may be, but McGinn is no daisy either.

 

Raffl is depth, so is McGinn . Depth is good.  

 

Seems Raffl took the impending pressure of McGinn's call up seriously with a goal and two points against Ottawa.

 

:blink:

[jammer2]

@mojo1917 "Tough to root for a team that you know is fatally flawed and locked into those flaws for a long time."

 

 A true but alarming little tidbit of info. I think your sentence up there is why all Flyer fans are in arms right now. We don't want fatally flawed, we want a cup. If we can't do that, then have a plan based on that goal.....not this Streit, Vinny stuff, a real plan, not just bagging the biggest FA's to fill needs and trying to force them unto the team. Harry Z would be a better choice for 4th line duty than a few of our vets...and cheaper. 

[CoachX]

Neither has hiring from outside the organization, which they've also done. If you're going to throw a blanket statement out there, at least make sure it's true. There's dozens of reasons they haven't won a championship in decades, but "hiring former players" isn't one of them. They've brought in offensive guys, defensive specialist, players coaches, disciplinarians, guys who have played here, guys who have not, and none of it has worked.

 

To be honest, I think some of the scouts, position coaches, guys upstairs are a bigger factor for the team not winning any championships than the coaches. You can't forget the players either. There's been bad coaches here for sure, but they're all on a short leash with Snider and Clarke in charge.

 

Exactly what was my blanket statement? And how is what I said not true? Have they hired on numerous occaisions coaches and GM's who were once Flyer players? (Holmgren, Clarke, Berube, Hextall, Stevens, Murray, Barber) YES Have they promoted young superstars to Captain only to see them struggle after the fact? YES  (Giroux, Richards) Have they signed veteran players in the latter part of thier careers only to see them spend prolonged time on the injury list and not lead this team to a championship? YES (Forsberg, Hatcher, Lecavalier)

 

You are correct that there are lots of reasons they have not won a cup.  To say it isn't in some part due to the decisions of loyalty has as much chance as beinig correct as saying it does. If you look at the Flyers staff, from management to advertising, you will see numerous employees who wore the sweater. In positions that have little to nothing to do with team roster decisions, I commend the loyalty of the organization. However, when you see scouting, mangement and coaching positions with the same dynamic, then you throw in the obvious antiquated decision making, its reasonable to believe its time to do something different. As to your point about scouts, mangers  and position coaches, well the line up reads as a "who's who" of Flyer history.....

 

Senior VP - Bob Clarke

Exceutive VP - Keith Allen

GM - Paul Holmgren

Assistant GM - Ron Hextall

Head Coach - Craig Berube

Assistant Coach - Ian Laperriere

Player Development - Derrien Hatcher

Player Development - Kjell Samuelson

Head of Pro Scouting - Dave Brown

5 of 14 Scouts (Mark Grieg, Neil Little, Jack Mcillhargey, Antero Nittymaki, Illka Sinisalo)

 

Hell, that's a line up for an old timers game right there.

[fanaticV3.0]

Exactly what was my blanket statement? And how is what I said not true? Have they hired on numerous occaisions coaches and GM's who were once Flyer players? (Holmgren, Clarke, Berube, Hextall, Stevens, Murray, Barber) YES Have they promoted young superstars to Captain only to see them struggle after the fact? YES  (Giroux, Richards) Have they signed veteran players in the latter part of thier careers only to see them spend prolonged time on the injury list and not lead this team to a championship? YES (Forsberg, Hatcher, Lecavalier)

 

You are correct that there are lots of reasons they have not won a cup.  To say it isn't in some part due to the decisions of loyalty has as much chance as beinig correct as saying it does. If you look at the Flyers staff, from management to advertising, you will see numerous employees who wore the sweater. In positions that have little to nothing to do with team roster decisions, I commend the loyalty of the organization. However, when you see scouting, mangement and coaching positions with the same dynamic, then you throw in the obvious antiquated decision making, its reasonable to believe its time to do something different. As to your point about scouts, mangers  and position coaches, well the line up reads as a "who's who" of Flyer history.....

 

Senior VP - Bob Clarke

Exceutive VP - Keith Allen

GM - Paul Holmgren

Assistant GM - Ron Hextall

Head Coach - Craig Berube

Assistant Coach - Ian Laperriere

Player Development - Derrien Hatcher

Player Development - Kjell Samuelson

Head of Pro Scouting - Dave Brown

5 of 14 Scouts (Mark Grieg, Neil Little, Jack Mcillhargey, Antero Nittymaki, Illka Sinisalo)

 

Hell, that's a line up for an old timers game right there.

 

You didn't say this?

They hire coaches who are former Flyers and that never works.

That's the only part of your post I objected to. They really don't hire as many former players (Flyers) as coaches as people make it seem. Of their last 10 coaches, 6 of them spent no time playing the the team and 1 of them (Stevens) played like 9 games with the team.

 

If you are talking about position coaches and guys in managment, I agree. But head cooaches? It's really not that many.

[CoachX]

Yes I did say that, but it was by no means "a blanket statement". Also, I was right, it has never worked. 3 of the last five head coaches, encompassing 13 years, have been former Flyer players and/or, guys who have been brought up through the organization. Barber, Stevens and Berube never had any previous head coach experience, and could be argued that they were "groomed" from within the franchise. So 5 of 18 is not that many, but 3 of the last five is. It also shows a trend and direction. When you couple that with three of the last four GM's are also former Flyers, and this extends back to 1984, its even more convincing.

 

And let's not overlook the obvious heir apparent, Ron Hextall. He will be the next one to fit the bill.

[flyerrod]

@CoachX

 

Was that the same dog you tossed into the car to subdue the suspect that I saw on the news?

[DaGreatGazoo]

Exactly what was my blanket statement? And how is what I said not true? Have they hired on numerous occaisions coaches and GM's who were once Flyer players? (Holmgren, Clarke, Berube, Hextall, Stevens, Murray, Barber) YES Have they promoted young superstars to Captain only to see them struggle after the fact? YES  (Giroux, Richards) Have they signed veteran players in the latter part of thier careers only to see them spend prolonged time on the injury list and not lead this team to a championship? YES (Forsberg, Hatcher, Lecavalier)

 

You are correct that there are lots of reasons they have not won a cup.  To say it isn't in some part due to the decisions of loyalty has as much chance as beinig correct as saying it does. If you look at the Flyers staff, from management to advertising, you will see numerous employees who wore the sweater. In positions that have little to nothing to do with team roster decisions, I commend the loyalty of the organization. However, when you see scouting, mangement and coaching positions with the same dynamic, then you throw in the obvious antiquated decision making, its reasonable to believe its time to do something different. As to your point about scouts, mangers  and position coaches, well the line up reads as a "who's who" of Flyer history.....

 

Senior VP - Bob Clarke

Exceutive VP - Keith Allen

GM - Paul Holmgren

Assistant GM - Ron Hextall

Head Coach - Craig Berube

Assistant Coach - Ian Laperriere

Player Development - Derrien Hatcher

Player Development - Kjell Samuelson

Head of Pro Scouting - Dave Brown

5 of 14 Scouts (Mark Grieg, Neil Little, Jack Mcillhargey, Antero Nittymaki, Illka Sinisalo)

 

Hell, that's a line up for an old timers game right there.

 

 

Just remember what Uncle Ed said..."We don't need a culture change  "

 

That's ALL we need to know about how this organization thinks.   :wacko:

Edited December 10, 2013 by DaGreatGazoo

[CoachX]

@flyerrod

 

yes....but in his defense, he was having a bad day

[CoachX]

@DaGreatGazoo

 

Snider is to the Flyers what Jerry Jones/Dan Snider is to their respective teams. You can't tell an egomaniac any different.... I should know

[flyerrod]

@flyerrod

 

yes....but in his defense, he was having a bad day

LOL...probably not as bad a day as the guy that was sitting in the car....

[CoachX]

penalty assessed!