radoran Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I put this into the "Flat" thread, but rather than split it out, will restate here for comment. This team has no identity. There is no indication of what kind of "team" they are, what they are expected to be. What they even want to be. This team has individual talent, but no collective presence. There is no "core" to the team. Part of that is that they have changed 18 of 23 roster spots in the past two years. Part of it, IMO, is not having a captain that has ever given that identity to any team throughout his career. That's not to say it's impossible that it does happen, but that the organization is likely further away from that goal than 'almost there'. Do you see the Flyers with any sort of identity? Any sort of passion? Any great cameraderie to build upon? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 @radoran - are you suggesting that they need a fresh perspective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Maybe the talent i snot there? Couple that with a not so good work effort and this is the product that shows up on the ice. Having said that I have to question why so many times they have come from behind and have led in hits. They can not afford to coast till OT and or a shoot out. They don't have the goods for that. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I see a bunch of millionaires saying the same things I have been hearing for years - we need to skate harder, we need to find a way to get he lead and hold it, we need to outwork the opponent, yadda, yadda , f'ing yadda... I thought when the Flyers went on that nice little run they actually outworked teams but that has not been the case lately and it certainly was not the case at the beginning of the year. Going back for years this Club has had a problem coming out of the gate ready to play night in and night out. Numerous head coached and different players but the result is the same which begs me to question the culture of the Flyers as an organization. To directly answer the question I dont think there is any identity with this Team. When I look at this current group of players I am not sure if everyone has the burnign desire to win and play tough. I would put G, Simmonds and Hartnell in the category of truly wanting to win but I have to be honest I want some snarl - aka: what Pronger brought to the Team. They have talent but I would nto consider them a Team like the Pens who are incredibly skilled. They are not a blue-collar working Team either... I think they really do not have an identity. Then again how can you get an identity when the Team and Coaching Staff is a continuous revolving door. Edited January 23, 2014 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 @radoran - are you suggesting that they need a fresh perspective? I don't know about "perspective" as much as they need something to light some sort of fire under this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't know about "perspective" as much as they need something to light some sort of fire under this team. 10,9,8,7,6.... the countdown to the dreaded "homer locker room appearance" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 10,9,8,7,6.... the countdown to the dreaded "homer locker room appearance" talk about going to the well too often... All of these "appearances" through the years have made such a difference, haven't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamflyers Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 They just need to show us something they have not shown in years...patience. They do have a good core of forwards currently, though they could use more depth at the wing. The D is pathetic and ultimately, it is their biggest weakness. What I am encouraged by is that fact that they have some good D prospects in the pipeline for the first time in ages and hopefully the timing is such that the young forwards are really coming into their own just when these young d-men are making their jump to the NHL. With the right "veteran" moves made around them, we could see a very nice mix of young talent with some veteran experience to help them along. Morin, Hagg, Laurdisen, MAB (if he stays healthy) are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Obviously there are no guarentees that Morin and Hagg become the players they were drafted to be, but it is exciting to finally see good D prospects developing and having talent on O already developing at the NHL level. Of course, Homer could screw it all up in an instant, but as of now, if they play their cards right, they might have a nice young team on both sides of the ice in a few years. I wish it was the young core of D already developing at the NHL level and the good O prospects waiting in the wings since D-men seem to take longer to develop, but at this point, I'll take what we can get! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Berube wants his team to skate.His roster makes that tough, does Homer or Hextall go out and try to find skaters ?I know what Berube wants to do, he wants to forecheck and constantly pressure the other team, he just can't do with this group of players. and that's not to say there isn't room for guys like Downie and Couturier who don't list skating as their #1 skill, those guys need to be out with mobile guys behind them and the roster just doesn't have the right kind of players on the blue line to break them out effectively and to allow them to reverse the puck around the boards in even strength situations. kind of sucks to know you can't get to where you want to go with who you're riding with. Edited January 23, 2014 by mojo1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 @radoran Who says there is no identity for this team? There There, they are a team of two Schenns. One who scores for the Flyers and the other who allows the opposition to score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Solid points mojo and I think you are right on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Play bad for Ekblad! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Play bad for Ekblad! Nice trademark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam1986 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Shake up but wait for summer! What's scares me is 2 weeks off to get rusty! The guys going to the O are mostly old Edited January 24, 2014 by Jam1986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorado_al Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Two weeks to "get" rusty? They look pretty rusty right now <g>. Hay pull the C of G and let him concentrate on scoring rather then being the perfect "team" ( pass before shots ) guy. Heck put the C on someone else. I don't think there's a rule out there that the C has to go to the guy with the most talent. I'd rather put it on the guy who gives everything he has every second he's on the ice and can fire the team up. Trade 40 and 41... bring in some new vets who give 100 percent day in and day out and let the rest of the team grow up and learn what it takes to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) JackStraw, on 23 Jan 2014 - 9:52 PM, said:Play bad for Ekblad! ™Nice trademark!Flyers Marketing team, put it on a T-shirt! Edited January 24, 2014 by Samifan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 @colorado_al alGive it up with the "it's the captain's fault BS". This is a team of mismatched and slowish parts, take last nights beat down by CBJ the Flyers were putting out until Horton's rocket made it 5-2 , that was a soul crusher... Up to that point , they were getting beaten to every puck by a faster team, maybe not more talented but faster. Effort doesn't fix that, leadership doesn't fix that. They are not fast and when they play teams with speed and active sticks 5-2 losses will most likely be the result. Not because G is a bad captain , but because team speed and quickness is the team's weakness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Berube wants his team to skate.His roster makes that tough, does Homer or Hextall go out and try to find skaters ?I know what Berube wants to do, he wants to forecheck and constantly pressure the other team, he just can't do with this group of players. and that's not to say there isn't room for guys like Downie and Couturier who don't list skating as their #1 skill, those guys need to be out with mobile guys behind them and the roster just doesn't have the right kind of players on the blue line to break them out effectively and to allow them to reverse the puck around the boards in even strength situations. kind of sucks to know you can't get to where you want to go with who you're riding with. Isn't that quite similar to Laviolette's desired system of marmalade, er, um, jam? I have also heard that Chief was more concerned with being more responsible defensively than demanding on the forecheck. It's hard to tell, given the mess that they often look like out on the ice. You're advocating for a change up in the fundamentals of the roster - given that four of the defencemen who "don't fit" are signed for two more years, along with seven of the forwards and a goalie. If we presume that BSchenn and Raffl are extended, that's nine. And Rinaldo and Rosehill are signed for next year. That's 16 of the "23" players. Two important questions - why was this team assembled in this way if the systems of the current and past coach don't fit the personnel? What can be done about it? And, quite frankly, none of it addresses the fundamental question of this team's identity. There still isn't one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) I think that our identity is to play bad defense and rely on the offense to make a 3rd period comeback! Broad St. parade here we come! Oh and also to just get the playoffs becasue you know....anything and I mean anything can happen! Edited January 24, 2014 by Poulin20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Two important questions - why was this team assembled in this way if the systems of the current and past coach don't fit the personnel? What can be done about it? I wish I knew. I do think some things didn't work out, Pronger for the future plus I think Eminger was a mistake that turned into Carle whom 90 % of Flyers fans hated until he wasn't resigned , because Homer was after a true #1 who was never going to sign here ? Offer sheet to Weber and let's sign Kurtis ****** Foster and Bruno Gervais ? I mean it is not like an effort hasn't been made to make the defense good, things have just not worked out in spectacular fashion. Mezaros when he was acquired was a bright spot then he broke, now he's not trusting his body and his play suffers. the team was assembled before this coach took over, so there is that. Berube knows the game, he knows the league favors speed and skill, he's gotten this bunch to look cohesive where Pete was at the track rather than in camp. Laviolette must have known what a **** sandwich this team was going to be. The culture is broken, there needs to be a statement of goals, and then a plan created to reach the goal, the current method is proving ineffective. the goal of make the playoffs is bullshit. the goal needs to be we will play with speed smarts and skill, we will be relentless in our puck possession and when we don't possess it we will pursue like mad men it until we do. Then we need to find the players who buy in and have the ability to execute it, it's all the corporate bullshit buzzwords i can think of, this stupid team needs it. synergy , leverage the cross functioning efficiencies. Get in and anything can happen is not a goal. Edited January 24, 2014 by mojo1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 the team was assembled before this coach took over, so there is that. Berube knows the game, he knows the league favors speed and skill, he's gotten this bunch to look cohesive where Pete was at the track rather than in camp. Laviolette must have known what a **** sandwich this team was going to be. The culture is broken, there needs to be a statement of goals, and then a plan created to reach the goal, the current method is proving ineffective. the goal of make the playoffs is bullshit. the goal needs to be we will play with speed smarts and skill, we will be relentless in our puck possession and when we don't possess it we will pursue like mad men it until we do. Then we need to find the players who buy in and have the ability to execute it, it's all the corporate bullshit buzzwords i can think of, this stupid team needs it. synergy , leverage the cross functioning efficiencies. Get in and anything can happen is not a goal. I mean, I get the idea that this team was assembled before the current coach, but I just don't see much of a difference in the "styles" of the two coaches in terms of what they are looking for on the ice. And I do believe that the guy who was an assistant coach on the same team before being elevated isn't exactly excused from the repercussions of the team that was assembled. The Flyers have a goal - make the playoffs. And the "anything can happen" is "you can give us your money and when we lose in the first round, we'll credit it to your season-ticket renewal." I wish I felt better about it, but even the blip of November (when they played a bunch of similarly-flawed teams and came out on top more often than not) has been obliterated by the results when they face teams above them in the standings. Or, as it turns out, Carolina, Columbus and the Islanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 And I do believe that the guy who was an assistant coach on the same team before being elevated isn't exactly excused from the repercussions of the team that was assembled. i disagree here but that's really the only place. as an assistant , you're not making the decisions about who stays and who goes , who looks like they'd be worth trading for. you have input but you don't have the direct route to the GM . This group is in transition the young forwards seem to be finding themselves Jacob Voracek excluded the defense as has been stated repeatedly is a mess and this is where as a coach i'm in the GMs office making a case for roster turnover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 just get the playoffs becasue you know....anything and I mean anything can happen! Sadly, I think this is exactly where the flyers are at... I truthfully think they believe this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I mean, I get the idea that this team was assembled before the current coach, but I just don't see much of a difference in the "styles" of the two coaches in terms of what they are looking for on the ice. And I do believe that the guy who was an assistant coach on the same team before being elevated isn't exactly excused from the repercussions of the team that was assembled. The Flyers have a goal - make the playoffs. And the "anything can happen" is "you can give us your money and when we lose in the first round, we'll credit it to your season-ticket renewal." I wish I felt better about it, but even the blip of November (when they played a bunch of similarly-flawed teams and came out on top more often than not) has been obliterated by the results when they face teams above them in the standings. Or, as it turns out, Carolina, Columbus and the Islanders. And not for nothing, but Mason's numbers have returned to normal levels. Aside from a very bad January (3.32, .885 sv%), his numbers (2.57, .915 sv%) are still better than his career average (2.83, .906). In fact, his current save % basically matches his career high (.916) in his rookie year. So, his return to earth is another factor in the Flyers' recent mediocre play. I'm not blaming Mason, but just pointing out that, realistically, this is what we can expect from him. Which makes strong defensive play all the more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 This team has no identity. There is no indication of what kind of "team" they are, what they are expected to be. What they even want to be.This team has individual talent, but no collective presence. There is no "core" to the team.Do you see the Flyers with any sort of identity? Any sort of passion? Any great cameraderie to build upon? I really don't see Rad how having an "identity" helps this team or any team for that matter. How does slapping a label on them render success for the team? The team has leadership, they are able to come from behind and win games. They do believe in themselves. They however are not able to play mistake free or play desperate every shift. Sometimes a team is only as good as your worst player. Minimize the mistakes and this team can win on any given night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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