*SIGH* is it 2013 all over again?

[CoachX]

I will preface my opinions with the disclaimer, "I didn't expect the to be a serious contender this year".

 

This year's team so far, looks a lot like last year. Boring, uninspired hockey. They appear soft to me and seem to be getting knocked off the puck pretty easily. I'm not saying I want the bullies back (of course I do), but they could show some energy, right?

 

Last season wasn't it because Laviolette allowed them to come in soft with a poor training camp? Giroux was injured and blah, blah, blah? So what is it this year? Is it the Timmonen injury? Or is it some other excuse? I get that the defense isn't very good, but that doesn't explain the offense. How is the power play looks out of sync and the second unit is non-existent? At some point shouldn't they realize that little pass into the slot, when covered by two guys, isn't going to work?

 

I know its a long season, and by the end, they will be better. there is hope on the horizon with young players. Right now though, it's just tough to watch

[mojo1917]

for starters if this were a repeat of 2013 i think the Flyers would be 1 and 8  and not 4 and 5.

they did **** the bed there in Florida, but good strippers in Tampa and Sunrise sucks.

 

If I were coaching this group of players with the injuries sustained so far i'd be hard pressed to have any sort of decent rotation too.

top line seems okay, i'd have left Schenn , Simmonds and Bellmare alone , I have been almost liking Couturier's line with Read not so sure about Umberger, maybe that can be an "earned" slot.  

I don't know, there's a lot of pieces that seem to not be fitting too well. 

Straddling the line between playing meaningful hockey and "rebuilding" sucks.

I would almost welcome full on Sixer tank mode, you know what you're getting,  this group, they play very well one night, cannot suck enough the next, very frustrating.

[briere48]

i guess you can say, it's both the roster and coach, we dont have the right pieces and we have a coach that is constantly switching the lines putting them out of position and screwing up the chemistry.

 

for this team to get back into contention, hextall has to get two left wing snipers for first and second lines and get a coach that knows how to put the players in the right postion.this team was playing well, problem with both lavy and berube is that they were screwing up the chemistry, in 2010 we had the right players but homer got rid of them and the team went downhill.

[fanaticV3.0]

Not to poo on anyone's party, but they were in the PO last year after missing the previous year and they are rebuilding. I wish they were better, but it's not as bad as it could be.

 

I agree with you @CoachX about them being soft. They are not a tough team and haven't been for some time, but are particularly soft this last year or two. They need some size and toughness. Not at the expense of skill or anything, but this team lacks physicality.

 

What this team needs is to start thinking about those moves to take the next steps. They have plenty of youth in their core and have even more waiting in the wings. If we're lucky, two of those guys make the team in the next year or two. If you can add 2 from this group: Morin, Ghost, Laughton, Haag, and Alt to the roster, that's a nice turnaround. If more than two of them make it, that's great, I'm just being realistic. But they can't just sit around and wait for these kids to develop and simply expect them to lead the team. They need to be aggressive in adding pieces that are as close to a sure thing as you can get. They need experience, leadership, and toughness. They got a decent young core, but they are lacking a few things. Personally, I think their biggest two targets should be a top line winger (you could arguably play Simmonds there, but you don't want all your eggs in one basket) and an impact defenseman.

[fanaticV3.0]

for starters if this were a repeat of 2013 i think the Flyers would be 1 and 8  and not 4 and 5.

they did **** the bed there in Florida, but good strippers in Tampa and Sunrise sucks.

 

If I were coaching this group of players with the injuries sustained so far i'd be hard pressed to have any sort of decent rotation too.

top line seems okay, i'd have left Schenn , Simmonds and Bellmare alone , I have been almost liking Couturier's line with Read not so sure about Umberger, maybe that can be an "earned" slot.  

I don't know, there's a lot of pieces that seem to not be fitting too well. 

Straddling the line between playing meaningful hockey and "rebuilding" sucks.

I would almost welcome full on Sixer tank mode, you know what you're getting,  this group, they play very well one night, cannot suck enough the next, very frustrating.

 

Their plan is not going to work. Just look at who they are pinning their hopes to. Noel has not play a single NBA game and Embiid is in the same exact boat. They are building their franchise around not one, but two, guys who have not proven anything. Not only that, they are supposedly tried to get rid of MCW - the only player they've got worth a damn. You think attendance is bad now, wait until their "plan" doesn't work out.

 

I don't want the Flyers to get rid of G, Voracek, Simmonds and some of the other young core to do something as monumentally stupid as the Sixers have done.

[brelic]

I agree with you @CoachX about them being soft. They are not a tough team and haven't been for some time, but are particularly soft this last year or two. They need some size and toughness. Not at the expense of skill or anything, but this team lacks physicality.

 

You mean like a Hartnell-type? In all seriousness I agree that they lack physicality. Someone like a Lucic, or Backes would fit the bill - physical and top 6 talent. Are you suggesting getting someone like that via trade or FA? 

 

Not a ton of affordable and right age-bracket FAs (I'm thinking late 20s-early 30s) coming up that fit the bill. Chris Stewart had a few really promising seasons in St. Louis, but then tailed off last year, and is terrible on a terrible Buffalo team so far. He's 27.

 

Nick Foligno would be a good pickup. He's also 27.

 

Tyler Kennedy is alright, but he's not that tough, and he's not top 6. He's 28.

 

But they can't just sit around and wait for these kids to develop and simply expect them to lead the team. They need to be aggressive in adding pieces that are as close to a sure thing as you can get. They need experience, leadership, and toughness. They got a decent young core, but they are lacking a few things. Personally, I think their biggest two targets should be a top line winger (you could arguably play Simmonds there, but you don't want all your eggs in one basket) and an impact defenseman.

 

Is this above and beyond the 'adding toughness' bit above? Or does it all kind of blend together in your mind?
 

I certainly agree that those are the two crucial elements missing from this team - but the question is always "How do you acquire those pieces?" 

 

If you're talking top line winger via trade, the price will most certainly involve one or some of our best young players and picks. Couturier, Schenn, Laughton, Morin. One of those guys would likely be going the other way. We're not getting quality pieces back with VLC, Umberger, Read, and Raffl of the world.

 

Personally, I would let this season play out and see how well Raffl can do in that spot. I had my doubts that he could actually be a top line winger, but he's seizing the opportunity. Failing that, I would love to see Schenn get a fair shot - 20-30 games on the top line. Get a rhythm. We may very well have our future top line winger already on our team - he just needs to be developed into one. I see no rush in going out and trading for one.

 

In terms of impact defenseman - what do you mean by that? Top pairing? Top four? And who are we replacing/shipping out? 

[PhilsFanDrew]

Their plan is not going to work. Just look at who they are pinning their hopes to. Noel has not play a single NBA game and Embiid is in the same exact boat. They are building their franchise around not one, but two, guys who have not proven anything. Not only that, they are supposedly tried to get rid of MCW - the only player they've got worth a damn. You think attendance is bad now, wait until their "plan" doesn't work out.

 

I don't want the Flyers to get rid of G, Voracek, Simmonds and some of the other young core to do something as monumentally stupid as the Sixers have done.

 

No one on the Sixers roster that they got rid of was the equivelant of a Giroux, Voracek, or Simmonds.   The Sixers were not going anywhere with the likes of Holiday, Turner, Hawes, Thad Young.   The Sixers plan isn't limited to just Noel or Embiid.  It's about acquiring picks and assets to find the right pieces to build around.  Rather than just add random FA players hoping the can make a mediocre team better.

[CoachX]

Brelic:

 

That would be nice (NOT HARTNELL! I would hang myself)

 

I'm not really suggesting anything at this point. I'm just venting. I want to watch something exciting happen. At this point, I only need to watch the last two minutes of any game

[Podein25]

I want to watch something exciting happen. At this point, I only need to watch the last two minutes of any game

 

I have hardly watched any of our games this year, but from what I've seen I agree. Boring. 

[fanaticV3.0]

You mean like a Hartnell-type? In all seriousness I agree that they lack physicality. Someone like a Lucic, or Backes would fit the bill - physical and top 6 talent. Are you suggesting getting someone like that via trade or FA? 

 

Not a ton of affordable and right age-bracket FAs (I'm thinking late 20s-early 30s) coming up that fit the bill. Chris Stewart had a few really promising seasons in St. Louis, but then tailed off last year, and is terrible on a terrible Buffalo team so far. He's 27.

 

Nick Foligno would be a good pickup. He's also 27.

 

Tyler Kennedy is alright, but he's not that tough, and he's not top 6. He's 28.

 

 

 

 

Is this above and beyond the 'adding toughness' bit above? Or does it all kind of blend together in your mind?

 

I certainly agree that those are the two crucial elements missing from this team - but the question is always "How do you acquire those pieces?" 

 

If you're talking top line winger via trade, the price will most certainly involve one or some of our best young players and picks. Couturier, Schenn, Laughton, Morin. One of those guys would likely be going the other way. We're not getting quality pieces back with VLC, Umberger, Read, and Raffl of the world.

 

Personally, I would let this season play out and see how well Raffl can do in that spot. I had my doubts that he could actually be a top line winger, but he's seizing the opportunity. Failing that, I would love to see Schenn get a fair shot - 20-30 games on the top line. Get a rhythm. We may very well have our future top line winger already on our team - he just needs to be developed into one. I see no rush in going out and trading for one.

 

In terms of impact defenseman - what do you mean by that? Top pairing? Top four? And who are we replacing/shipping out? 

 

Money issues aside, I would not have minded if Hartnell retired a Flyer at all. I grew to like him over the years. He used to get on my nerves, but I actually ended up liking him more than some of the other young guys he grew up with here. But when I say they need to get tougher, I don't think it's a matter of one guy - and if it were one guy I don't think he'd be that guy.

 

I would prefer FA, but if they could get these players via trade, and without losing too much, I'm perfectly fine with that. Losing 1 or 2 guys who haven't even made it to the bigs wouldn't kill the rebuilding process.

 

Raffl is not a top line player imo. I'm not trading him anytime soon, I like him a lot, but he's not a top 3 guy. I really liked him with Couturier and Read last year. They were a nice versatile line imo. I agree with the Schenn suggestion on G's line.

 

They desperately need a top 4 d-man. When it comes to defensemen, I'm always a defense first kind of guy. They need somebody who can make up for the guys who can't play in their own end, which is most of this bunch. I'm hopeful Morin can be that kind of guy, but since he hasn't even made the team yet, I don't depend on him. Plus, he could really learn from a vet. If it were up to me, the only guys on D I'd keep would be Coburn and Streit. Maybe Grossman depending on how the prospects panned out. I don't hate him as a 3rd pairing guy.

[fanaticV3.0]

No one on the Sixers roster that they got rid of was the equivelant of a Giroux, Voracek, or Simmonds.   The Sixers were not going anywhere with the likes of Holiday, Turner, Hawes, Thad Young.   The Sixers plan isn't limited to just Noel or Embiid.  It's about acquiring picks and assets to find the right pieces to build around.  Rather than just add random FA players hoping the can make a mediocre team better.

 

No one on the roster is the equivalent of them either.

 

Random/unknown prospects are no better than random FAs. If you're going to rebuild around young players, cool. I got no problem with that. But two of the three guys in their core haven't even played yet!

[brelic]

They desperately need a top 4 d-man. When it comes to defensemen, I'm always a defense first kind of guy. They need somebody who can make up for the guys who can't play in their own end, which is most of this bunch. I'm hopeful Morin can be that kind of guy, but since he hasn't even made the team yet, I don't depend on him. Plus, he could really learn from a vet. If it were up to me, the only guys on D I'd keep would be Coburn and Streit. Maybe Grossman depending on how the prospects panned out. I don't hate him as a 3rd pairing guy.

 

I would add Del Zotto to the list of keepers. He's logging heavier minutes as we go on, and is looking fine doing it. 

 

Like you, I would keep Coburn and Streit. I would move Schenn only because he has more value than Grossmann, and I think Schenn has no future as part of the core of this team moving forward. He's the wrong defenseman playing in the wrong era.

[PhilsFanDrew]

No one on the roster is the equivalent of them either.

 

Random/unknown prospects are no better than random FAs. If you're going to rebuild around young players, cool. I got no problem with that. But two of the three guys in their core haven't even played yet!

 

They may end up being busts but coming out of college they were high selections in the draft so they must have some talent to tap into.  The only one yet to see NBA action yet is Embiid.  Noel has played in the first 3 games this year.  MCW is out right now but had a full rookie season under his belt where he won Rookie of the Year.  He will return this year and 2 of the 3 pieces as of right now will be getting quality minutes.    

[fanaticV3.0]

I would add Del Zotto to the list of keepers. He's logging heavier minutes as we go on, and is looking fine doing it. 

 

Like you, I would keep Coburn and Streit. I would move Schenn only because he has more value than Grossmann, and I think Schenn has no future as part of the core of this team moving forward. He's the wrong defenseman playing in the wrong era.

 

I haven't made up my mind about him yet. I haven't paid as much attention to him as I had planned on yet, but I also haven't heard him being talked about a lot either. I just don't know what to make of him. I was excited at his signing, but you don't read a lot about or hear a lot about his play. I know that doesn't mean he's bad, but it also means he hasn't stood out.

 

I would trade Schenn for a round of crab fries at Chickie and Petes.

[fanaticV3.0]

They may end up being busts but coming out of college they were high selections in the draft so they must have some talent to tap into.  The only one yet to see NBA action yet is Embiid.  Noel has played in the first 3 games this year.  MCW is out right now but had a full rookie season under his belt where he won Rookie of the Year.  He will return this year and 2 of the 3 pieces as of right now will be getting quality minutes.    

 

Oh, I have no problem with MCW. In fact, I was livid when I heard they might move him just so they could attempt to guarantee their stank this year. But he's move proven than Noel, Embiid, or anyone they draft next year. To trade that, especially when he is so young, is moronic. He's the only player on the roster that has proven anything.

[Vanflyer]

I would add Del Zotto to the list of keepers. He's logging heavier minutes as we go on, and is looking fine doing it.

 

While I despise the Hartnell / Umberger move, I really like the MDZ move. I thought he was damaged goods and is proving me wrong thus far.

[Lindbergh31]

CoachX

 

As the old saying goes, the NHL season is not a sprint but a marathon, considering the injuries on the defense, being 4-5-2 after 11 games is not a bad thing. The coaching staff definitely has to figure out eh powerplay and hopefully the goalie duo of Mason/Emery give the team chances to win games. Maybe making a trade with Edmonton with the Schenn brothers going there might be the wakeup call the Flyers players need.

[Vanflyer]

Maybe making a trade with Edmonton with the Schenn brothers going there might be the wakeup call the Flyers players need.

 

Make it so!!! I would do it for picks and call up phantoms to fill the spots.

[Podein25]

Maybe making a trade with Edmonton with the Schenn brothers going there might be the wakeup call the Flyers players need.

 

There aren't many Oilers that I'd want, other than the ones that are untouchable (Hall, Nurse, Draisaitl). Eberle I like, and he might be available in a trade, but he's also soft and seems to be getting softer. If he isn't scoring, he's a liability. Flyer fans would quickly sour on him if he wasn't scoring. 

[Vanflyer]

There aren't many Oilers that I'd want

 

addition by subtraction my friend. Give me a 1st and 2nd for both Schenns and be done with it. In a nano-second. If we are going to rebuild, lets not do it half-assed.

[Podein25]

addition by subtraction my friend. Give me a 1st and 2nd for both Schenns and be done with it

 

 

As soon as we got picks like that from EDM they'd surely rocket up the standings and make those picks go from great to average. 

[Vanflyer]

As soon as we got picks like that from EDM they'd surely rocket up the standings and make those picks go from great to average.

 

Great. Gives me something else to bitch and whine about on here.

[Podein25]

Gives me something else to bitch and whine about on here.

 

 

You need more?

[Vanflyer]

You need more?

 

More is less if you know what I mean. baaahaaaahaaaa

[radoran]

Money issues aside, I would not have minded if Hartnell retired a Flyer at all. I grew to like him over the years. He used to get on my nerves, but I actually ended up liking him more than some of the other young guys he grew up with here. But when I say they need to get tougher, I don't think it's a matter of one guy - and if it were one guy I don't think he'd be that guy.

 

Would Hartnell be one of those veteran types that might be good to have around as you've/we've been discussing?

 

I think he fits the bill for me...

 

I'm starting to come down more with @Vanflyer on the whole Hartnell trade just being an egregious mistake.