Tanking is hard

[brelic]

Sheesh - I look at the standings today, figuring that 9 straight road losses and 6 straight losses overall must have nudged us closer to McDavid. But no! The other 4 teams are tanking just as hard.

 

I think this group just isn't trying hard enough. Berube needs to get in there and use his superior hockey intellect to drill it in to them. MORE TURNOVERS. MORE LAZY PASSES ON THE BREAKOUT! I WANT TO SEE EVERY PLAYER TRY LOW PERCENTAGE PLAYS THROUGH THE NEUTRAL ZONE!!

 

I'm disappointed with the smartest hockey man Homer knows.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

I really don't see "tanking". I just see some bad teams. Buffalo on the other hand is looking way better than I expected out of them.

If we were tanking, why sit Vinnie?

[brelic]

I really don't see "tanking". I just see some bad teams. Buffalo on the other hand is looking way better than I expected out of them. If we were tanking, why sit Vinnie?

 

I was being more than a little facetious

 

What I really meant was that as bad as this team has been, it's hard to believe that the other terrible teams haven't passed us.

[Bertmega]

VLC will be an Oiler this time next week...... You can bet the halibut farm on that one.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic The Oilers are going to have to actually win a game at some point to pass anyone. I know what you're saying though...how can NHL rosters (meaning more than one) be this bad.

[B21]

VLC will be an Oiler this time next week...... You can bet the halibut farm on that one.

 

If you want to catch the Oil in the McSavior sweepstakes, wouldn't trading VLC to them not be the thing to do?

[flyercanuck]

@B21 Definately. We have to ask ourselves here.....What would the Pens do? My guess is Vinnie becomes first line centre while Giroux and Voracek get sent down to the farm. Mason sits and we bring Bryz back.

[Samifan]

Bryz back.

 

Bryz will be too busy winning a second stanley cup with the Ducks

[brelic]

What would the Pens do?

 

Let's go for lunch and discuss.

[B21]

@B21 Definately. We have to ask ourselves here.....What would the Pens do? My guess is Vinnie becomes first line centre while Giroux and Voracek get sent down to the farm. Mason sits and we bring Bryz back.

 

Sounds about right.

[mojo1917]

If you want to catch the Oil in the McSavior sweepstakes, wouldn't trading VLC to them not be the thing to do?

In the glib ha ha we're tanking sense... yes, but actually LeCadaver's ®-pilldoc  contract will hinder any type of free agent signing to replace which ever useful player we give up to the team that will take Vinnie's contract.  

 

The tank cannot simply be oh let's draft and sign this potentially great player, there should be some decent veteran leadership in place so said new savior doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting alone, the dearth of second round draft picks means the Flyers will not be able to add a group of quality players to rise together the way edmonton did with Gretzky.  So trading VLC and useful player X pokes a hole in the roster in the form of losing useful player X.

 

The tank is becoming a bit of a delicacy in PHI, of course we have to do it better than Pgh... and know more about it

[AJgoal]

With the way the lottery is set up, the flyers at 4 would have a 9.5% chance of landing the #1 overall. The worst team's chance is only about twice as good at 20%. What finishing last does is guarantee you at least Eichel. Next year, the lottery expands to the top three positions.

[pilldoc]

What would the Pens do? 

 

Stack it so all the ping pong balls have Flyers logo's !

[brelic]

The tank cannot simply be oh let's draft and sign this potentially great player, there should be some decent veteran leadership in place so said new savior doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting alone, the dearth of second round draft picks means the Flyers will not be able to add a group of quality players to rise together the way edmonton did with Gretzky.  So trading VLC and useful player X pokes a hole in the roster in the form of losing useful player X.

 

I know we've had this discussion before on the board but I can't help but wonder if the way we treat(ed) Bryz, MacDonald, Del Zotto, VLC, and Umberger is finally enough for other UFAs to think twice about coming to Philly. Maybe it already has for those UFAs who have passed us up over the past few years. 

 

If I were a player, I think I would take another team's offer before Philly if only because of the way they tend to chew them up and spit them out, rarely keeping them around for very long before they're run out of town. I know the player gets paid, but these are still human beings that get put through bizarre situations because the team doesn't have a plan. 

[pilldoc]

With the way the lottery is set up, the flyers at 4 would have a 9.5% chance of landing the #1 overall. The worst team's chance is only about twice as good at 20%. What finishing last does is guarantee you at least Eichel. Next year, the lottery expands to the top three positions.

 

Frankly as long as the Flyers pick 1, 2 or 3.  McDavid, Eichel and Hanflin will all fill a spot on this team.

[murraycraven]

I really don't see "tanking". I just see some bad teams. Buffalo on the other hand is looking way better than I expected out of them. If we were tanking, why sit Vinnie?

pretty much agree... this is not tanking IMO.  This is just bad hockey...

[pilldoc]

I know we've had this discussion before on the board but I can't help but wonder if the way we treat(ed) Bryz, MacDonald, Del Zotto, VLC, and Umberger is finally enough for other UFAs to think twice about coming to Philly. Maybe it already has for those UFAs who have passed us up over the past few years. 

 

If I were a player, I think I would take another team's offer before Philly if only because of the way they tend to chew them up and spit them out, rarely keeping them around for very long before they're run out of town. I know the player gets paid, but these are still human beings that get put through bizarre situations because the team doesn't have a plan. 

 

i don't know brel.  It is a very valid point.  I kind of thought that way before they signed VLC, but then ...poof Vinny signs with this team.  I think players want to play for solid organizations.  Up until recently I always thought the Flyers as one of those very stable clubs. Obviously within the past few seasons that has changed.  With Vinny, he came here expecting to play for Lavy and then Lavy got axed within the first 3 games.  If the Flyers can right this ship in a 2-3 yrs, I think the FA's will come back.  Just my 2 cents.

[FD19372]

VLC will be an Oiler this time next week...... You can bet the halibut farm on that one.

Also, we can tell Lowe and anyone who else who might or might not ask, "You get a Schenn, you get a Schenn, everybody gets a Schennnnnnnn!!!"

[mojo1917]

I know we've had this discussion before on the board but I can't help but wonder if the way we treat(ed) Bryz, MacDonald, Del Zotto, VLC, and Umberger is finally enough for other UFAs to think twice about coming to Philly. Maybe it already has for those UFAs who have passed us up over the past few years. 

 

If I were a player, I think I would take another team's offer before Philly if only because of the way they tend to chew them up and spit them out, rarely keeping them around for very long before they're run out of town. I know the player gets paid, but these are still human beings that get put through bizarre situations because the team doesn't have a plan. 

Of those 5 players only Bryz has a legitimate gripe, Vinnie's gripe maybe legit too, he was lured by Laviolette who then got fired because he spent training camp at Delaware Downs and not the rink... Still LeCadaver's ®pilldoc play hasn't been um, what's the word  or words,  remotely decent. 

MacDud had played terribly this year, he knows it.  DelZotto was going to be watching NHL hockey if not for Hextall, Umberger was a healthy scratch in Columbus here he gets 14 minutes a night.  Money talks, just ask that ******* Nick Markakis (former Oriole) ....signing the big sheet with a loser team when the team he built is finally a contender, because he wants paid... these guys are all mercenaries. Comcast has the deep pockets.  It's a business.

[brelic]

i don't know brel.  It is a very valid point.  I kind of thought that way before they signed VLC, but then ...poof Vinny signs with this team.  I think players want to play for solid organizations.  Up until recently I always thought the Flyers as one of those very stable clubs. Obviously within the past few seasons that has changed.  With Vinny, he came here expecting to play for Lavy and then Lavy got axed within the first 3 games.  If the Flyers can right this ship in a 2-3 yrs, I think the FA's will come back.  Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Of those 5 players only Bryz has a legitimate gripe, Vinnie's gripe maybe legit too, he was lured by Laviolette who then got fired because he spent training camp at Delaware Downs and not the rink... Still LeCadaver's ®pilldoc play hasn't been um, what's the word  or words,  remotely decent. 

MacDud had played terribly this year, he knows it.  DelZotto was going to be watching NHL hockey if not for Hextall, Umberger was a healthy scratch in Columbus here he gets 14 minutes a night.  Money talks, just ask that ****** Nick Markakis (former Oriole) ....signing the big sheet with a loser team when the team he built is finally a contender, because he wants paid... these guys are all mercenaries. Comcast has the deep pockets.  It's a business.

 

 

Good points, guys. 

 

Yes, it's a business and I understand that. We've been hearing more stories lately of players refusing better offers to pick teams that 'fit' them which makes a whole lot of sense and is really how it should be anyway. 

 

I don't believe for a second that Homer had no idea he might fire Laviolette. Firing him 3 games in says he knows he should have fired him the previous year. That was clearly in his head. So he probably pulled the wool over Vinny's eyes and sold him a fairytale.

 

But what I mean is that Bryz, MacDonald, VLC - these guys were all signed to major major contracts which definitely exceeded their actual value, which overcommitted, and which was now asking them to play a role they were not suited for. In other words, the Flyers set them up to fail.

 

Giroux signed an 8 year extension for A LOT of money. But we've had 6+ years of watching this guy grow with the organization, get better every year, and show it on and off the ice that's he's committed to this organization. It makes sense to reward a guy like that - it's not a big risk.

 

Guys like Bryz, MacDonald, VLC, they came from the outside, and they had little (19 games) to no experience with the Flyers, their system, their organization, and the way they do things. Yet they were rewarded with absurd contracts that handcuffed the organization. VLC is already on the decline so from the get-go, it was clear to anyone not named Homer that there was really no reasonable way for VLC to live up to the expectations of that contract. Bryz was signed for NINE years - again, there is just no reasonable way for him to live up to that contract. Name one starting goaltender in the NHL who is over 40 and getting paid $5M per year. That's what Bryz would have had to be to earn that contract. He was signed until his 40s. It's just not reasonable. And MacDonald, a 27 year old earning $500K, got a $30M contract after a 19 game audition. He's very close to being a finished product if he isn't already. Yet we signed him to the kind of contract that demands #1/2 defenseman responsibilities, talent, and time on ice. He is not that. He never was.

 

The Flyers set these guys up to fail. If MacDonald were making $3M - closer to his actual value - and signed for 3 years, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

 

Just some Thursday morning thoughts

[mojo1917]

The Flyers set these guys up to fail. If MacDonald were making $3M - closer to his actual value - and signed for 3 years, we wouldn't be having this conversation

 

He turned down 4 x 4 on the island.

He was not to be had for 3 million whatever his perceived value is/was.  Clearly he expected dolla dolla bills y'all.

I can think of many players i'd rather have than MacDonald at his cap hit number, that's easy.  I too wished the price we paid for him wasn't as steep, two draft picks kind of made resigning him a priority and set the Homercoaster up for this overpayment  which in light of the projected rising cap may not be "horrible" but the revised number makes it a bit of a ball buster.

 

Trust me I'd rather have Hjalmersson or Carle or Seabrook or Pietrangelo or a lot of guys for McDonald's cap hit. 

This team needs to cut the deadwood and there is a fair amount of it , hopefully Hextall knows a good tree service guy...
 

[murraycraven]

He was not to be had for 3 million whatever his perceived value is/was. Clearly he expected dolla dolla bills y'all.

 

Clearly Homer should have let him walk.   I fail to see how not having McDud in the lineup this year would make this defense any worse.   He was looking for the bills yo!

[pilldoc]

 

 

I don't believe for a second that Homer had no idea he might fire Laviolette. Firing him 3 games in says he knows he should have fired him the previous year. That was clearly in his head. So he probably pulled the wool over Vinny's eyes and sold him a fairytale.

 

The Flyers set these guys up to fail.

 

Just some Thursday morning thoughts

 

I think the firing of Lavy was a knee jerk reaction, but that is so typical of this club.  There is no thought process ever with this club.

Maybe Homer / Ed really had no envisions of firing Lavy so early on in the season.....but then again firing a coach 3 games in had to have some thought throught he summer in case the team started off poorly.  If they hold the contention it never entered their collective thought proccess's then this team runs completely on knee jerk reactions.  You will never will win like that.

 

And yes...I completely agree...this team sets players up to fail.

[fanaticV3.0]

I know we've had this discussion before on the board but I can't help but wonder if the way we treat(ed) Bryz, MacDonald, Del Zotto, VLC, and Umberger is finally enough for other UFAs to think twice about coming to Philly. Maybe it already has for those UFAs who have passed us up over the past few years. 

 

If I were a player, I think I would take another team's offer before Philly if only because of the way they tend to chew them up and spit them out, rarely keeping them around for very long before they're run out of town. I know the player gets paid, but these are still human beings that get put through bizarre situations because the team doesn't have a plan. 

 

What do you mean? Overpay them and guarantee them they won't be traded without their ok?

[murraycraven]

What do you mean? Overpay them and guarantee them they won't be traded without their ok?

 

 

I agree that we certainly like to overpay but every player there listed DESERVES to be criticized... they simply are not/have not lived up to the contract they signed.  MDZ is the only one that I think is getting the shaft and RJ can't even be included in the statement b/c he is still playing - lord knows why.  Additionally, another Team gave RJ that stupid contract.

 

It is not like these guys say "you know Homer, I am really not that good so let's lessen the contract by 4 years and few million."   Not saying Homer is not culpable (b/c he very much is) but the players are not worth the price - simple.as.that.