Flyers-Panthers: How We have Fallen....

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

I didn't see a game thread; my apologies if there was one.

 

Some observations:

 

1) Our effort level the first 15 minutes was pitiful.

2) I had the Florida feed down here; Potvin and Goldstein observed that offensive effort beyond the first line was poor.

3) I have to believe our poor performance in the shootout is a reflection on the offensive talent--we are mucker-grinders.  

 

We used to manhandle the Panthers on a regular basis.  Now we struggle against them.  Tallon has built from scratch with good picks and some character castoffs. Brandon Pirri is a lot better than VLC.   I think we are in for a long, losing, and boring season.  

 

Best,

 

Howie

[hf101]

Hey Howie,

 

I didn't see the game, only the OT and shootout. Luongo was strong in both.   The Flyers gave a good effort in the OT.  And in the shootout they really just have a lack of confidence.

 

Florida is a team that always plays the Flyers tough and it is a lot tougher with quality goaltending.

 

Hextall needs to make some moves.  

[The Quigster]

The whole team get pushed around,they spend a lot of time looking over their shoulder.

[icehole]

The first period effort is inexcusable.  JJ even mentioned that this isnt the start Berube wanted.  Guess what chief, this is the start you get almost every night from your team.  If they can't get up for the game, that's his fault.

There are good game goalies and good 1 on 1 goalies and some that are good at both.  Mason is not a good 1 on 1 guy.  He is too slow to close the small gaps.  In a game, it doesn't hurt too much because the shooter doesn't have enough time to aim.

Speaking of aim, the flyers have none.  I bet 4 out of 5 SO goals are from straight shots...not fancy moves.  The flyers can't or won't take that shot.  Instead, they lose the puck on super dekes.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm convinced Hextall is going to start the blow up at the trade deadline and then really kick it into another gear in the off season. By then, he should have a very good mix draft picks, prospects and cap space to make deals to get the club back on track. They needed to take a step back this year, especially with no legitimate number one defenseman on the roster. Just goes to show how important having that true number one guy is and if it's missing, how much it can set your club back.

 

I know people want Hextall to make moves now, but to do so would be bad in that it would be panic moves. It's probably best to ride out this **** storm and start from scratch in the off season.

[flyercanuck]

@BobbyClarkeFan16

 

Add to that its pretty hard to compete with almost 10 million in capspace being taken up by Umberger and VLC...and sadly that ain't going anywhere it seems other than a buyout.

[Samifan]

Guess what chief, this is the start you get almost every night from your team. If they can't get up for the game, that's his fault.

 

Yep. While I know the players are ultimately responsible, its easier to fire one than 20. That's why in the shoutbox last night I jokingly suggested that Hextall should go down to the bench and fire Berube during a stoppage in play. "Gonna need your keys Chief. Security, please escort Mr. Berube out the loading dock."  Back from commercial JJ and Jonesy announce Berube has been relieved of his duties during the TV time out

[AJgoal]

Buy them out. I'll take the elimination of both from the roster at the cost of keeping the equivalent of Vinny's salary around for two seasons. It's not ideal, but it's much better than keeping them.

[ruxpin]

The first period effort is inexcusable.  JJ even mentioned that this isnt the start Berube wanted.  Guess what chief, this is the start you get almost every night from your team.  If they can't get up for the game, that's his fault.

There are good game goalies and good 1 on 1 goalies and some that are good at both.  Mason is not a good 1 on 1 guy.  He is too slow to close the small gaps.  In a game, it doesn't hurt too much because the shooter doesn't have enough time to aim.

Speaking of aim, the flyers have none.  I bet 4 out of 5 SO goals are from straight shots...not fancy moves.  The flyers can't or won't take that shot.  Instead, they lose the puck on super dekes.

 

Agreed.   

 

The thing about Mason seems true to me.  When he came here, they made a big deal about him staying back in the net and how that improved his game.  I think it did.  But that's not a great strategy in the shootout.  The time to aim thing, plus it leaves more net angle open.  I was going to say I'd have to watch the shootouts more closely to see if this is the case.  But I REFUSE TO WATCH THE SHOOTOUTS CLOSELY!

[ruxpin]

Yep. While I know the players are ultimately responsible, its easier to fire one than 20. That's why in the shoutbox last night I jokingly suggested that Hextall should go down to the bench and fire Berube during a stoppage in play. "Gonna need your keys Chief. Security, please escort Mr. Berube out the loading dock."  Back from commercial JJ and Jonesy announce Berube has been relieved of his duties during the TV time out

 

 

I like this.  Make it happen.

[fanaticV3.0]

The whole team get pushed around,they spend a lot of time looking over their shoulder.

Bbbbbut we have Rinaldo...

[icehole]

@Samifan

I don't know if I would want to see that done to Berube because he is a good guy, but there are coaches I would have paid to see get fired mid game.  That should send a message.  Forget about Hextall, Snider should walk down from his box!  Could you imagine Snider standing up behind the players like a coach...they'd S their pants!

[murraycraven]

I dont think Berube has a freakin' clue as a Coach.   I have seen nothing that gives me one ounce of confidence that he can be an average Coach in this league.  However - Berube, VLC and Umberger bring this club closer to disaster and a decent draft pick.  This Team gives no effort whatsoever and I really think they are blocking out Berube and his mindless games of duck/duck/goose when choosing who to sit and who to play.  

 

Wait it out until the deadline and shed as much as possible.  Hopefully, there will be some fools out there to take our garbage.  

[murraycraven]

Bbbbbut we have Rinaldo...

 

 

LOL!   Yeah... his whopping 9 minutes a night really gets this team fired up with his "energy"!

[murraycraven]

Agreed.   

 

The thing about Mason seems true to me.  When he came here, they made a big deal about him staying back in the net and how that improved his game.  I think it did.  But that's not a great strategy in the shootout.  The time to aim thing, plus it leaves more net angle open.  I was going to say I'd have to watch the shootouts more closely to see if this is the case.  But I REFUSE TO WATCH THE SHOOTOUTS CLOSELY!

 

 

Although... it would help if the shooters (except Jake) could actually hold onto the puck before shooting.

[icehole]

@ruxpin

Do you not want to watch the shootout because you don't like it and think it's a gimmick or just because the Flyers are so bad at it?

I don't understand why some fans blame the league for the shootout.  They need to break the tie, so that's their solution.  It has been in the league for 8 or 9 years now so the only ones to blame is the team that doesn't get better at it.  Also, the only skill needed in this "skills competition" is a good shot.  I've seen inline players that could dangle circles around these NHL players but I bet they would have trouble scoring in an NHL shootout.  Pick a corner for pete's sake!

[AJgoal]

@ruxpin

They need to break the tie, so that's their solution. 

 

Fallacious logic. They don't need to. The NHL worked fine when there were ties.

 

Deciding a team game with an individual skills competition is ludicrous.

[murraycraven]

Fallacious logic. They don't need to. The NHL worked fine when there were ties.

 

Deciding a team game with an individual skills competition is ludicrous.

 

100% agree.  It is beyond stupid. 

 

I am going to put thir horse right here b/c this post is turning into the ol' shootout discussion - you know, the one that has been beaten from all angles:

 

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

Do you not want to watch the shootout because you don't like it and think it's a gimmick or just because the Flyers are so bad at it?

I don't understand why some fans blame the league for the shootout.  They need to break the tie, so that's their solution.  It has been in the league for 8 or 9 years now so the only ones to blame is the team that doesn't get better at it.  Also, the only skill needed in this "skills competition" is a good shot.  I've seen inline players that could dangle circles around these NHL players but I bet they would have trouble scoring in an NHL shootout.  Pick a corner for pete's sake!

 

 

Yes.

 

I hate the shootout on principle.  I truly hate everything about it.  Even when it's two teams not remotely affecting the Flyers.  Honestly, I hated it when they were first talking about it, when they voted for it, and before I knew how bad the Flyers would be at it.  I'll never like it.  The DH rule has been in baseball for 40 some years.  It's here to stay.  I've always hated it and likely always will.  The "here to stay" really isn't an argument for me.  For me, it's insanely boring and a horrible way to end a team game.  But the fact that the Flyers have always sucked at it can't help.

 

Not sure Pavel Datsyuk would agree about just picking the corner. Or Oshie.   But the Flyers may want to try that.  I wouldn't want to be the glass, though.

[ruxpin]

100% agree.  It is beyond stupid. 

 

I am going to put thir horse right here b/c this post is turning into the ol' shootout discussion - you know, the one that has been beaten from all angles:

 

 

 

Yes to both you and @AJgoal

 

I just don't personally start out with the premise "you need to break the ties."  Why?

[fanaticV3.0]

LOL!   Yeah... his whopping 9 minutes a night really gets this team fired up with his "energy"!

 

Drinking bottles of 5 Hour Energy before a game would give this team a shot in the arm more than anything The Zac Attack can do.

[icehole]

@ruxpin

I don't necessarily like the shootout either but do you know who should start loving it, eating it, bathing in it.....the Flyers.  We can hate it because we don't alter the game.  I'm afraid that some coaches and players don't agree with it either, and therefore they ignore working at it.

I also don't want a tie though.  It makes me feel like I was ripped off.  I had a system in my head that would award a "winner" in the shootout but it wouldn't affect the points.  A "win in shootout" would only come into play in a points tie-breaker at the end of the season.  I would only award that extra point to the OT winner.  That way there would be more emphasis on winning in OT and not holding on for a shootout.  If two teams are tied for points at the end of season, the team with more wins gets that spot.  The team with more points is more likely to be the team that won the most regulation and OT games since you don't get the extra point for a shootout win.

I would ask Datsyuk and Oshie why they dangle instead of shooting but they (or equal skill players) aren't on the Flyers (or many other teams for that matter).  I can ask that putts that won it for the islanders the other week.  I forget who it was but he had a very high shootout %.  Without making 1 move, he skated in slowly and shot an accurate, quick, wrist shot through Mason's 5-hole.  It's that easy.

[AJgoal]

Based on a couple of small sample size (and subjective) reviews, deking seems to give the shooter a slightly better chance to score. However, this doesn't account for the shooter's or goalie's relative skill level, either.

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

I don't necessarily like the shootout either but do you know who should start loving it, eating it, bathing in it.....the Flyers.  We can hate it because we don't alter the game.  I'm afraid that some coaches and players don't agree with it either, and therefore they ignore working at it.   Agreed on both counts.

I also don't want a tie though.  It makes me feel like I was ripped off.  I had a system in my head that would award a "winner" in the shootout but it wouldn't affect the points.  A "win in shootout" would only come into play in a points tie-breaker at the end of the season.  I would only award that extra point to the OT winner.  That way there would be more emphasis on winning in OT and not holding on for a shootout.  If two teams are tied for points at the end of season, the team with more wins gets that spot.  The team with more points is more likely to be the team that won the most regulation and OT games since you don't get the extra point for a shootout win.

I would ask Datsyuk and Oshie why they dangle instead of shooting but they (or equal skill players) aren't on the Flyers (or many other teams for that matter).  I can ask that putts that won it for the islanders the other week.  I forget who it was but he had a very high shootout %.  Without making 1 move, he skated in slowly and shot an accurate, quick, wrist shot through Mason's 5-hole.  It's that easy.  Yeah, I agree the Flyers should probably go to "keep it simple, stupid."  Like I said, though, if the Flyers are going for corners, the glass is going to take a beating.

 

I know my Canadian friends don't like this idea, but I would prefer just going to percentage rather than points for the standings.  Mathematically, any tie would be considered .5    

 

So, 10-3-2   would be (10 + .5 + .5)/15 = .733   That's first on my wishlist.  Make the standings more similar to football, baseball, and whatever that sport is with the orange ball and hoops that no one watches.

 

That's not going to happen, so just to deal with the points, tie, etc.   If tied after regulation no one has earned anything yet, so no points yet.  Play a 10 minute 5v5.   At the end of this period, 2 points for a win, zilch, zip, nadda, nothing for anything else.  You lose, you get nothing.  That's what the word "lose" means.  You lose the chance to get anything.  Don't like it?  Win next time.    If, after the 10 minutes, the score remains tied, it goes as a tie in the standings, but neither team gets anything.  Nothing.   That's what the word "win" means.  You actually "won" something.  As a team.  In the absence of that, you get nothing.   Don't like it?  Win next time.

 

10-3-2 = 20 pts.

10-2-3 = 20 pts.

10-1-4 = 20 pts.

 

In the even of the need for standings tie breaker, use head to head first.   Then versus. division.  Then versus conference.  If you still need a tie breaker after that, least losses (best W+T).  But then tie only becomes relevant as a fourth or worse standings tiebreaker.  You don't end up with a situation where:

 

Team A    35-24-23  (93 pts)

Team B    36-26-20    (92 pts)

 

Where team A, with less actual wins more total losses, gets into the playoffs and Team B doesn't.

[ruxpin]

Based on a couple of small sample size (and subjective) reviews, deking seems to give the shooter a slightly better chance to score. However, this doesn't account for the shooter's or goalie's relative skill level, either.

 

The thing is, that the potential of deking opens up holes/opportunities for the "just pick the hole and shoot."  The converse is true, as well.  I really don't think that icehole is advocating this, but for example, you wouldn't want a team coached to "just pick a hole and shoot."  The team would become too easy to scout.  "Don't move, don't go down, they are going to shoot.  Come out further than otherwise to cut down the angle and wait for the shot."

 

The same is probably true if a team is coached only to deke.  "Wait for the second move."   I think the "only deke" would still be harder to prepare for since the goalie wouldn't necessarily know how many dekes.  

 

I don't know the stats on the shootout.  I pretty much ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist but will watch a really cool Datsyukian move. But I would have to think that the players with the best percentage over time actually mix it up so that the goalie really never knows which it is going to be.  I realize every game is important so maybe this isn't likely, but I swear some players take a shot or do a deke with the ultimate purpose being setting up their NEXT shoutout attempt.  Dunno.

 

But on an individual level, mixing it up with change-ups seems to be the best way to go about it.  1)Shout corner   2) deke backhand to forehand 3) shoot five hole  4) deke forehand to backhand, etc.