yave1964 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Jackets have been a non factor and a laughing stock for years, several years ago the Jackets blew up their roster with a series of unfortunate trades. Nash to the Rangers for Dubinsky and Anisimov. Dubs is a solid second liner and Anisimov is okay, Nash led the Rags to the cup finals and leads the league in goals scored this year. Brassard and Dorsett to the Rangers for Gaborik who was meh, and then donated for a third rounder to the Kings. The biggie, Voracek and a pick which turned out to be Couturier for a few months of Jeff Carter before donating Carter to the Kings for Jack Johnson, a solid d-man but certainly not elite like Voracek. Essentially they traded Nash, Brassard, Dorsett Couturier and Voracek for: Dubinsky, Anisimov and Johnson. Ugh. I know every cause has an effect, but lets say the Jackets had held on for a year or so longer, giving Voracek time to improve and using the pick the same as the Flyers for Couts. The regular rotation, if they had held off on those three deals, among the forward would look like: Nash Johansson Voracek hands down, no ifs ands or buts the best line in hockey. Period. Foligno Brassard Hartnell for a second line. wow. Jenner Couturier Atkinson as fast and deadly of a third line as their is Dorsett Letestu Calvert This would be the best group of forwards in hockey, beyond debate. Now I know, it is easy to say that the Jackets might not have done this or would still have a porous defense but with this group of forwards and Bob (or Mason) in net I really think this would have been a near elite team and a Stanley Cup contender in the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbulb Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Would never have thought "coots" would be included on a line labeled as fast and deadly ;-0 Pretty sad to see how damaging long-term a few poor decisions can be.... (see VLC, Rask for Raycroft, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Would never have thought "coots" would be included on a line labeled as fast and deadly ;-0No kidding. Next thing you know people will say Cooter has some actual hockey skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Jackets have been a non factor and a laughing stock for years, several years ago the Jackets blew up their roster with a series of unfortunate trades. Good points but they have a good young cast about to take flight soon with Bjorkstrand, MIlano joining Rychel, Wennberg and Heatherington and Mike Reily skating on the blueline. So they have some horses in the stable as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Yea, way too many ifs and or buts here to say "The Jackets should had held on longer". Fact is, the Jackets were floundering near the bottom of the league when the first salvo of trading Nash started.In fact, many, on this site too, thought the Jackets made out pretty well with the haul of players they got for Nash, and it really wasn't until THIS year that Nash is being looked at as en elite player once again. If you guys remember, Rick Nash was the butt of many jokes....and well deserved too. As for the others, well, Gaborik did what he did for the short while, but ultimately would ALWAYS be an injury risk...can't blame the Jackets from wanting to get out from under that while they could...and Jeff Carter, well, he simply didn't want to play in Columbus.And I am of the mind set that if a guy really doesn't want to be there any longer (see Marty St. Louis in Tampa Bay), then you find a way to help him find his way out the door. Despite the the way some of these trades turned out for the Jackets, during the meantime, they DID get themselves an identity (that of a tough-to-play against, good defensive team) where they had NONE before, and honestly, it has been one injury after another that has derailed this team.The various pieces they got for trades made...when can one say that they ALL were working together at the same time to pull this team up the standings? It simply has not worked out that way due to the injuries. And during the stretches where the team HAS had their major pieces playing together, the team has enjoyed stretches of winning and success. So, yea, easy to say now that the Jackets made 'poor decisions in trades', but at the time they made them, they didn't seem so poor, and it is a cruel twist of injury fate that has the Jackets still near the bottom of the league as contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briere48 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Jackets have been a non factor and a laughing stock for years, several years ago the Jackets blew up their roster with a series of unfortunate trades. Nash to the Rangers for Dubinsky and Anisimov. Dubs is a solid second liner and Anisimov is okay, Nash led the Rags to the cup finals and leads the league in goals scored this year. Brassard and Dorsett to the Rangers for Gaborik who was meh, and then donated for a third rounder to the Kings. The biggie, Voracek and a pick which turned out to be Couturier for a few months of Jeff Carter before donating Carter to the Kings for Jack Johnson, a solid d-man but certainly not elite like Voracek. Essentially they traded Nash, Brassard, Dorsett Couturier and Voracek for: Dubinsky, Anisimov and Johnson. Ugh. I know every cause has an effect, but lets say the Jackets had held on for a year or so longer, giving Voracek time to improve and using the pick the same as the Flyers for Couts. The regular rotation, if they had held off on those three deals, among the forward would look like: Nash Johansson Voracek hands down, no ifs ands or buts the best line in hockey. Period. Foligno Brassard Hartnell for a second line. wow. Jenner Couturier Atkinson as fast and deadly of a third line as their is Dorsett Letestu Calvert This would be the best group of forwards in hockey, beyond debate. Now I know, it is easy to say that the Jackets might not have done this or would still have a porous defense but with this group of forwards and Bob (or Mason) in net I really think this would have been a near elite team and a Stanley Cup contender in the East. i think if they had a killer defense like boston, chicago, La, i would think columbus would be good team, problem is they keep getting forwards and not defensemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 @fishbulb@Podein25 Okay maybe not fast but responsible in his own zone, enough offensive ability to be considered solid on the third line. The problem in Philadelphia is he is expected to do too much, as a skilled third liner he would be solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 @fishbulb@Podein25Okay maybe not fast but responsible in his own zone, enough offensive ability to be considered solid on the third line. The problem in Philadelphia is he is expected to do too much, as a skilled third liner he would be solid.For sure. If you've read any of the many threads on Cooter, you'll know that I'm one who thinks he can be an elite second liner. With some fast skilled wingers, playing against teams' weaker lines he could put up 70 points.But this thread is about Columbus so I will spare you reading about his 100 points in Jr as a 17 year old.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 For sure. If you've read any of the many threads on Cooter, you'll know that I'm one who thinks he can be an elite second liner. With some fast skilled wingers, playing against teams' weaker lines he could put up 70 points.But this thread is about Columbus so I will spare you reading about his 100 points in Jr as a 17 year old....A few years ago after a surprisingly strong rookie year as a kid, someone in here had a post asking if you would trade Couturier even up for Subban, by over a two to one ratio people stated no way would they give up the kid forward for Subban. I agreed with them because of his age and obvious skill set. I doubt too many would vote that way now. I do not believe his skill level has atrophied, I agree completely with you that it is being poorly used and lousy linemates. Not wishing Giroux poor health or an injury but I have wondered what would happen if Couts got a long shot, 10-15 games playing on a top line, I think with Jake he would be a point a game player with no problem. But given my druthers, I would personally put him on a third line with no pressure to allow him to get his game back. A couple of opportunistic fast wingers with skill would change his whole game, and then, only then would I bump him back up slowly. He is still young enough to have a nice career. I have not given up on him, not by a long shot. Worthy of Subban? Well, no, but still should have a hell of a career if the team does not screw him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The Jackets have been a non factor and a laughing stock for years, several years ago the Jackets blew up their roster with a series of unfortunate trades. Nash to the Rangers for Dubinsky and Anisimov. Dubs is a solid second liner and Anisimov is okay, Nash led the Rags to the cup finals and leads the league in goals scored this year. Brassard and Dorsett to the Rangers for Gaborik who was meh, and then donated for a third rounder to the Kings. The biggie, Voracek and a pick which turned out to be Couturier for a few months of Jeff Carter before donating Carter to the Kings for Jack Johnson, a solid d-man but certainly not elite like Voracek. Essentially they traded Nash, Brassard, Dorsett Couturier and Voracek for: Dubinsky, Anisimov and Johnson. Ugh. I know every cause has an effect, but lets say the Jackets had held on for a year or so longer, giving Voracek time to improve and using the pick the same as the Flyers for Couts. The regular rotation, if they had held off on those three deals, among the forward would look like: Nash Johansson Voracek hands down, no ifs ands or buts the best line in hockey. Period. Foligno Brassard Hartnell for a second line. wow. Jenner Couturier Atkinson as fast and deadly of a third line as their is Dorsett Letestu Calvert This would be the best group of forwards in hockey, beyond debate. Now I know, it is easy to say that the Jackets might not have done this or would still have a porous defense but with this group of forwards and Bob (or Mason) in net I really think this would have been a near elite team and a Stanley Cup contender in the East.That is kind of disgusting hahaha Nash did not "Lead them to the finals" though. Nash was a fifth wheel in that finals run. He is definitely having a great year this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 That is kind of disgusting hahaha Nash did not "Lead them to the finals" though. Nash was a fifth wheel in that finals run. He is definitely having a great year this season.True, I thought of that with Nash, he was just a post season spear carrier last year. Anyway you look at it, those top two lines would be as good as any in the game, and the third line, Jenner, Couts and Atkinson would be amazing as well. Columbus is loaded with young near ready forwards, maybe as many as any team in the league. Here is hoping they stay the course and let the kids go through the rough times as they establish themselves in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Lotsa ifs in this scenario.And no guarantee the Hartnell deal still gets made.But, yeah, sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make.And sometimes the best change is in the GM chair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 @radoran The Jackets have just been plain awful at recognizing talent, and their developmental skills are even worse. As a Wings fan Ken Holland drives me nuts sometimes with his patient aproach to building/retooling on the fly, his conservative nature where he would rather stay the course than make a deal because of public pressure from the fans can be difficult. I think from now on, when I get too irate with Kenny Holland and his build from within philosophy I am just going to sit back and imagine a line of Nash, Johansson and Voracek and sigh deeply. Yes, the fans love a trade and love a big signing, but more often than not it does not work out as hoped. The non sexy way of doing things is to stay the course and ride it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The Jackets have just been plain awful at recognizing talent, and their developmental skills are even worse. Oh, I do not disagree with that at all. I just think the biggest change they have made was putting Kekalainen in charge and relieving Howson after what can't be called anything but a disastrous five years in charge. That, for me, is why the Jackets have started in a new direction and, but for injury, might still be challenging for the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 As a Wings fan Ken Holland drives me nuts sometimes with his patient aproach to building/retooling on the fly, his conservative nature where he would rather stay the course than make a deal because of public pressure from the fans can be difficult. I think from now on, when I get too irate with Kenny Holland and his build from within philosophy I am just going to sit back and imagine a line of Nash, Johansson and Voracek and sigh deeply. Yes, the fans love a trade and love a big signing, but more often than not it does not work out as hoped. The non sexy way of doing things is to stay the course and ride it out. What you said about Columbus can be said about the Flyers approach too. This is why we are such a frustrated fan base - giving away talent, prospects, and picks in the name of making the playoffs. The Flyers have always been competitive, but rarely a legitimate contender for the Cup. Over the past 10 years, here are the Flyers draft picks (who play/played mostly with the Flyers) with the highest number of GP: Giroux, 462Couturier, 253Rinaldo, 201Nodl, 183Bartulis, 66McGinn, 66 Lovely, isn't it? These other two have played more elsewhere (or were simply given up on by the Flyers): JVR, 372Maroon, 116 Now, how about Detroit in the same period? Franzen, 600Abdelkader, 367Helm, 338Kindl, 331Smith, 161Nyquist, 144Tatar, 147Sheahan, 91Jurco, 73 There's more of them too. Notice the stark difference in quality and quantity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 played his 1000th game to bad it was a loss.... Congrats Scotty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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