OccamsRazor Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Hall Gill slow ? No one but Hall Gill is that slow. I never said put him on the 2nd line ,I said third line and 2nd pp unit, just to clarify. I'm not sure he can keep up with the guys on the 3rd even. It just like Hextall said when Hak took over he basically didn't see him as a fit even in the new coach's system. Becuase he knows the film don't lie when you watch his speed had demenished greatly...its just how it is.He reminds me of when Knuble who already wasn't fleet of foot in the 1st place left Philly to head to the Caps, the reason they let him go is he struggled to keep up with the play.This is a fast league. Just look at the clinic the Bolts and Hawks put on in the Cup final...the transition game was out standing. Hak system is predicated on speed.And that is the one thing father time isn't to kind on giving back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerfan2 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The thing is, Vinny is a career -140 player. There was a timr when his production and creativity made up for the complete lack of care for the defensive side of the puck. Those days are gone so he's just a liability and an expensive one at that.Well were going to have to disagree on him being a liability and let the up coming season sort that out.As for plus minus well it tells a bit of the story it doesn't tell the whole story and not just for vinny but for all players.It would be interesting to know of his career - 140 how much of that come at the end of games when the goalie was pulled for a extra attacker and the opposing team netted an empty netter. How about how many were as he stepped onto the ice on a change and the team was scored on before he was able to get into the play.Never have been a fan of solely judging a player on plus minus stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Well were going to have to disagree on him being a liability and let the up coming season sort that out.As for plus minus well it tells a bit of the story it doesn't tell the whole story and not just for vinny but for all players.It would be interesting to know of his career - 140 how much of that come at the end of games when the goalie was pulled for a extra attacker and the opposing team netted an empty netter. How about how many were as he stepped onto the ice on a change and the team was scored on before he was able to get into the play.Never have been a fan of solely judging a player on plus minus stats. Wonder how many minus' Vinnies teammates got when the opposition was heading up ice and he dogged it to the bench, to get off just in time for the other team to score? I'd bet there were more scenarios like that. He's not the worst player in the world. But his game without the puck shows zero leadership. And his contract only hurts the Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Lecavalier was -17 when he scored 40 in 07-08There are two other players since then that have scored 40 and been -15 or more.Kovalchuk and Ovechkin.Judging a player by one stat is a fool's errand. Noting overall tendencies based upon multiple statistics, comparable players and historic trends is called analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Lecavalier was -17 when he scored 40 in 07-08There are two other players since then that have scored 40 and been -15 or more.Kovalchuk and Ovechkin.Judging a player by one stat is a fool's errand. Noting overall tendencies based upon multiple statistics, comparable players and historic trends is called analysis.Are you calling me a fool?! jkThing is, that was 7 years ago, which is like 100 years in Vinny years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The thing is he has never been good in his own zone. Even in his prime.Hak's system requires a 200 foot commitment. Berube tried to get that out of him while he was here and benched when he didn't see it.Am i'm glad Berube did Chief messed up because he didn't do that with everyone.But Vinny is also just slow.Like Hall Gill slow...but you wouldn't put Gill on the top D pair because of what he use to be because he can't keep up. So why would you put VLC on the 2nd line...he can't keep up.Berube had a system? It looked like a free for all, even from the top players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Berube had a system?Yes. Skate harder is a system.....google it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Are you calling me a fool?! jkThing is, that was 7 years ago, which is like 100 years in Vinny years.So you're saying his defense has improved since then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 So you're saying his defense has improved since then? He was just doing his part to help the team learn how to play better in their zone and away from the puck!!!#leadership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Monet Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yes. Skater harder is a system.....google it!!!! Stolen from bill barber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingswede Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 He brings leadership, an effort night in and night out, heck he'll even drop the gloves to stick up for team mates even though he knows he probably wont fair well.He still has skill, not the level he once had but he still has skill ,he just needs to be put in situations where he can show it.Vinny last year was basically dumped on and a whipping boy. Miss handled to say the least. Well to me thats excuses. Homer didnt bring him in, with that sallary, for dropping gloves. Ofcourse you can blame Cheif for some of it, maybe he could be more gentle to Vinny and let him play more. The problem is whatever you like Vinny or not, he is not bringing to the ice what he makes in money. If we want more dropping gloves, heart and leadership we could almost get 4-5 players with that for his sallary. This next season I really want VInny to be on the 1st or 2nd line. Why? Becouse its INSANE to have the leagues highest paid 4th line. If Vinny could make some nice passes and goals from the 1st line it would be easier to sell him then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Well to me thats excuses. Homer didnt bring him in, with that sallary, for dropping gloves. Ofcourse you can blame Cheif for some of it, maybe he could be more gentle to Vinny and let him play more. The problem is whatever you like Vinny or not, he is not bringing to the ice what he makes in money. If we want more dropping gloves, heart and leadership we could almost get 4-5 players with that for his sallary. This next season I really want VInny to be on the 1st or 2nd line. Why? Becouse its INSANE to have the leagues highest paid 4th line. If Vinny could make some nice passes and goals from the 1st line it would be easier to sell him then. You know, VLC could probably do a little bit if put in that situation: The offense is far from horrific; he still has some game per 60 minutes. It's the rest of his game which is a complete mess now. TLDR - the Flyers could do the pump. It's the dump I'm worried about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Two more years after the next...no calculator needed.Everyone's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerfan2 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Well to me thats excuses. Homer didnt bring him in, with that sallary, for dropping gloves. Ofcourse you can blame Cheif for some of it, maybe he could be more gentle to Vinny and let him play more. The problem is whatever you like Vinny or not, he is not bringing to the ice what he makes in money. If we want more dropping gloves, heart and leadership we could almost get 4-5 players with that for his sallary. This next season I really want VInny to be on the 1st or 2nd line. Why? Becouse its INSANE to have the leagues highest paid 4th line. If Vinny could make some nice passes and goals from the 1st line it would be easier to sell him then. Your right I'm guessing he didn't either, yet that was the roll Berube put him in to a point by putting him on the fourth line. Hard to put up offensive numbers while getting fourth line minutes and playing with less skilled players, or watching from the press box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Your right I'm guessing he didn't either, yet that was the roll Berube put him in to a point by putting him on the fourth line. Hard to put up offensive numbers while getting fourth line minutes and playing with less skilled players, or watching from the press box.Rofl. The same avatar I had to wear for 6 months after I lost the Gorges bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerfan2 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Rofl. The same avatar I had to wear for 6 months after I lost the Gorges bet We can make the same bet , except this time the player involved could be vinny.! You were a lot more reputable sporting this avatar. LMAO. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 We can make the same bet , except this time the player involved could be vinny.!You were a lot more reputable sporting this avatar. LMAO. :-)I ain't betting on Vinny. We could of course do a Kassian vs Prust bet Since I think Kassian might find his stride in Montreal and Prust is bust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 What's $10m when you're miserable? Vinny has already made over $85m dollars in his career. Plus, Tampa Bay will be paying him millions more until 2027 to not even play for them. If I was miserable and sitting in the press box, I would want to get out of here without question. Uncle Ed can just donate a **** ton of money in Vinny's honour to make up for his lost wages.I guess the whole "I want to see how Hakstol uses me" thing is likely true, but I think Vinny just needs to face the facts and realize that he just doesn't have it anymore. He's slow, injury prone, not very good defensively. You'd think he would want to leave the game before it gets any worse, because it wont be getting any better for him at his age.I could put up with all kinds of miserable and eat boatloads of popcorn for $10million. I mean that's like saying because you've made 850k over your the last ten years you wouldn't want 100k more?Why should he cost himself, his families and his charities cash because homer is a GD moron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 He actually did the same thing with Gagner "Im not sure if we kep him or not" - that is a brutal message to a player. BUT I like it. Its all about the team! its the team its about, you play for the logo, the fans and the team. I think thats a good way to send message to the players. Vinny is not a good player, dont hush about it. What does Vinny bring to this team? ofcourse Hexie should be open about it I think. Players ego is big enought anyway. Hextall didn't say he's not a good player. Saying that wouldn't be a very good way to find a trade partner. Berube screwed is all with Vinny the last two years. There are ways to make him look good that may sacrifice the team's overall success for a year, but will get him traded faster which will help the team's overall success more permanently. Chief put his ego and a misplaced dream in the playoffs last year ahead of the next 3 seasons. Hextall let him. Both were mistakes as far as I'm concerned. I think the hope is now with Haksy, that Vinny can look like a bit of a player again. Someone could take a flyer on 2.5 years of Vinny over 3.5 years if he looks like he can contribute. In the mean time he's just costing us cap space to try it out. We don't really have another choice. The buyout will cause longer term suffering for a bit more space in the short term. Short sighted and makes for cap issues in 3+ years when we hope to be competing for real with the kids. Better to have the cap space then than now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Hextall didn't say he's not a good player. Saying that wouldn't be a very good way to find a trade partner. Berube screwed is all with Vinny the last two years. There are ways to make him look good that may sacrifice the team's overall success for a year, but will get him traded faster which will help the team's overall success more permanently. Chief put his ego and a misplaced dream in the playoffs last year ahead of the next 3 seasons. Hextall let him. Both were mistakes as far as I'm concerned. I think the hope is now with Haksy, that Vinny can look like a bit of a player again. Someone could take a flyer on 2.5 years of Vinny over 3.5 years if he looks like he can contribute. In the mean time he's just costing us cap space to try it out. We don't really have another choice. The buyout will cause longer term suffering for a bit more space in the short term. Short sighted and makes for cap issues in 3+ years when we hope to be competing for real with the kids. Better to have the cap space then than now.Just get VLC some jetpack skates to where it may help.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Just get VLC some jetpack skates to where it may help....What's the penalty for jet pack skate violations? Is it a minor or a major? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 What's the penalty for jet pack skate violations? Is it a minor or a major? There's no penalty as long as your stick isn't curved too much and you don't have pine tar too far down the handle. http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/4446224/george-brett-o.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 What's the penalty for jet pack skate violations? Is it a minor or a major?No rule in place yet so let's exploit that...what the hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 No rule in place yet so let's exploit that...what the hell...Might get him booted the same as drugs or border crossings. Worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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