ruxpin Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Just an interesting fact about age - we are the 4th oldest roster in the NHL. I was surprised when I read that this morning. I didn't read it. Is that by average? Is that because VLC raises the average? If we don't include him, are we 5th youngest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I didn't read it. Is that by average? Is that because VLC raises the average? If we don't include him, are we 5th youngest? I thought I read 4th oldest in Carchidi's article this morning, but this site has us as 5th oldest. http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams Plus, VLC ain't the oldest dude on this team! That would be Streit. Buf and Edm are the two youngest teams in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 seems to me we haven't won since Pronger got hurt. seriously...since Pronger went out for good it's been a pretty rapid spiral downhill for the Flyers.you know... I think you are right Canoli... feels like it has been forever ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Flyers forwards, everyone besides BSchenn, Laughton and Couturier is over 25. On D and in net everybody is over 25. Streit is 37, Medvedev and Schultz are 33, Umberger is 33 and Lecav is closer to 50 than he is to 25 (!). Streit and Shultz cap hits, this year and next at $5.25 and $2.25 respectively. Umberger, this year and next at $4.6. VLC? Just another 234 games (at $54,878 each) and we're in the clear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Have we won since Timonen got hurt?You're nothing if not an a- hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Have we won since Cooter got injured? Yes actually...he went down in the Bruins game along with Neuvirth and they actually beat the Rangers without him...and that was the last win for them...a downward spiral ever since! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 and Chicago is in a cap hell created by giving their top players (who have at least won) huge contracts so they've been forced to play youngsters. Oh, and they're sixth in their division. Oh and btw Chicago has 15pts to the Flyers 10pts. Chicago is also 8th in the western conference while the Flyers are 14th. Chicago has 10 players 25 and younger to the Flyers 6. And to take it one step farther the Flyers have only 3 players under 25 to Chicago's 8. I don't think Hextall has said "youth" needs to "earn" spots - I think he's said that they need time to properly develop their games at the pro level. I do think that's a big difference .as in Manning right? prime example there I don't think there is a person on this forum that doesn't believe Ghost would be a better d-man on the Flyers than he is on the Phantoms and that Ghost's talents would be better served on the Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 You're nothing if not an a- hole. I'll go with a-hole. Nobody wants to be a nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I didn't read it. Is that by average? Is that because VLC raises the average? If we don't include him, are we 5th youngest? Him and Streit raise it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I'll go with a-hole. Nobody wants to be a nothing.It's hard to argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't think there is a person on this forum that doesn't believe Ghost would be a better d-man on the Flyers than he is on the Phantoms and that Ghost's talents would be better served on the Flyers.Well, here is one. You think gostisbehere would do better in the NHL than he is doing in the A? I'm not sure I follow that logic at all. Now, granted, his +/- down there is pretty bad (while Macdonald's is actually pretty good), but I don't know why anyone would think that would change if he were playing against more talented and experienced opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't think there is a person on this forum that doesn't believe Ghost would be a better d-man on the Flyers than he is on the Phantoms and that Ghost's talents would be better served on the Flyers. Ghost is truly a casualty of Homer's bad cap mgmt ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Well, here is one. You think gostisbehere would do better in the NHL than he is doing in the A? I'm not sure I follow that logic at all.Now, granted, his +/- down there is pretty bad (while Macdonald's is actually pretty good), but I don't know why anyone would think that would change if he were playing against more talented and experienced opponents. Ghost proved he could play at the NHL level in pre-season. He proved he's got offensive talent and his D game didn't suffer either. Sure, it's pre-season, but he played mostly NHL lineups toward the end and did not look out of place. Without a doubt, imo, he would be an improvement over most of our D corp RIGHT NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Now, granted, his +/- down there is pretty bad (while Macdonald's is actually pretty good) Plus he is playing the most minutes out of anyone on the blueline against the other teams top talent night in and out. With from what i've read a revolving door as his partner. Whereas Mcdud is doing all he can do to stay in the lineup which was mentioned in the prospect thread and has played sheltered minutes against weaker competition should be taken into consideration. I think Ghost would being doing close to the same in the NHL actually he wouldn't have much skill to work with from his partners there either and he sure could boost the Flyers dismal PP. But him staying in the AHL for now is understandable as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Ghost proved he could play at the NHL level in pre-season. He proved he's got offensive talent and his D game didn't suffer either. Sure, it's pre-season, but he played mostly NHL lineups toward the end and did not look out of place. Without a doubt, imo, he would be an improvement over most of our D corp RIGHT NOW. In fact i think you could completely swap Dcorp (with the exception of Mcdud leave him down) and with the Phantoms and you'd might have a slight improvement improvement maybe. Is this ludicrous and far fetched why yes but i stand by it and we'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 As much as I'd rather watch Ghost play over Manning or - well most of the Flyers' D right now - this is exactly the wrong time to bring him up. [edit: the Flyers aren't going anywhere with or w/out Ghost so what's the point? It's certainly not hurting his development playing in the A.] He missed nearly all of last season. He needs this time with the Phantoms to work on his game and be ready when the Flyers will really need him, i.e. (hopefully) next year but definitely in the years after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Whereas Mcdud is doing all he can do to stay in the lineup which was mentioned in the prospect thread and has played sheltered minutes against weaker competition should be taken into consideration. dam skippy OR... there was an article on BSH that stated MacDud was almost a healthy scratch a few times. He sucks plain and simple. Thanks again Homer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 As much as I'd rather watch Ghost play over Manning or - well most of the Flyers' D right now - this is exactly the wrong time to bring him up. [edit: the Flyers aren't going anywhere with or w/out Ghost so what's the point? It's certainly not hurting his development playing in the A.] He missed nearly all of last season. He needs this time with the Phantoms to work on his game and be ready when the Flyers will really need him, i.e. (hopefully) next year but definitely in the years after. I have no problem with him getting some seasoning in the AHL right now. You're right... there's no need to have him up. We're not competing and not going anywhere. My statement was just as a matter of fact. He would be an upgrade over most of our D corp right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 @radoranA paycheck is not a reward. It is compensation for work, based on how important the work is, and how well you do it. I'd say clearing a point per game for a few years is both important and a job well done. Doing your job better than 99.5% of your peers pretty well justifies getting paid better than 99.5% of them. That isn't frivolously hooking someone up, that is paying them based on their contribution as compared to other people doing the same job.Judging an individual's value based on what the larger organization did or didn't do is stupid. Very few hockey games are won by a single player. Mario lemieux couldn't win a cup until the penguins put enough talent around him to put them over the top. It won't be ovechkin's fault if the caps never find a decent goalie, a solid blue line, and a quality RW at the same time. It isn't giroux's fault the Flyer's depth at all positions has been consistently terrible throughout his career. The day my boss tells me I don't deserve a raise because the rest of my department sucks, well, that's the day I politely tell her she is nuts.The term in his deal is crazy. The per-year of it, though, is ball park for a player who put up the points he has. I can see it as a touch high, by maybe $500k, but if you think the team could have gotten away with $6mil or whatever for a player scoring at over a point per game in this day and age, then I'd say the same thing to you that I would my boss. Politely, but still. As you say, the term is crazy. No, I don't think they could have "gotten away" with $6M for Giroux (I do think a serious argument could be made for $6M for Voracek). I didn't advocate for a $6M number - ever. But the larger context of whether or not Giroux - and, now, Voracek - are worth the investment the team has given them is, IMO, a valid one. And whether or not this franchise can legitimately compete with the salary structure they have as a result of those deals is likewise valid. The results in the standings are not encouraging. Judging an individual's value based on what the larger organization did or didn't do is stupid. I don't find evaluating a player - especially a team captain - by results and effectiveness "stupid" at all. YMMV. Of course there are many and varied elements to an effective evaluation and none of them exist in a vaccuum. It won't be ovechkin's fault if the caps never find a decent goalie, a solid blue line, and a quality RW at the same time. It isn't giroux's fault the Flyer's depth at all positions has been consistently terrible throughout his career I'm not at all saying it's Ovechkin's "fault". Or Giroux's. It's not the Sedins' "fault" that VAN hasn't put together a solid team, either (although they did get to the Final). It wasn't Mats Sundin's "fault" that the Maple Leafs were terrible for most of his tenure - and that they never got to the Final under his captaincy But how one is viewed will always be associated with the actual results of the team - especially a team you are the leader of. Every team needs a supporting cast - Gretzky didn't win in Los Angeles (although he got to a Final). If Lemieux hadn't won in '91 and '92 he would, IMO, be viewed much differently than he is today despite his obvious talent. (I will note that the team did make the playoffs during Giroux's "career" - if you want to make it about his tenure as a captain, that's a different discussion. I will also note, however, that the same guy who monumentally screwed up the depth of the team and the decisions regarding the roster is the same one who committed the captaincy and contract to Giroux.) And I also think that questioning whether Tronno made the right decison to stick with Sundin or Vancouver made the right moves to commit to the Sedins is very valid. Sometimes the best decisions you make are to go in a different direction. Yes, saying they were "rewarded for failure" was and is perjorative. Again, though, that was put forward in the context of answering Digity's original question ("One thing I question is if you are a player on this team that's not playing for a contract, what are you playing for?"). And whether or not the lackluster starts (under multiple coaches, over multiple years) are something that the "leadership" of the team needs to own. IMO, they need to own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Ghost proved he could play at the NHL level in pre-season. He proved he's got offensive talent and his D game didn't suffer either. Sure, it's pre-season, but he played mostly NHL lineups toward the end and did not look out of place. Without a doubt, imo, he would be an improvement over most of our D corp RIGHT NOW. I didn't actually see any of the preseason games, so I don't know. Looks like he got into 3 games, early ones against the Rangers and islanders (twice). And those rosters were definitely not nhl rosters. Still, 3 points in 3 games is great. Also, is only 3 games. Maybe he would be an improvement, though, and not a deer in the headlights as many young rookie dmen are. I'm not opposed to seeing how it goes. I just have a hard time with "without a doubt" on most prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I didn't actually see any of the preseason games, so I don't know. Looks like he got into 3 games, early ones against the Rangers and islanders (twice). And those rosters were definitely not nhl rosters. Still, 3 points in 3 games is great. Also, is only 3 games.Maybe he would be an improvement, though, and not a deer in the headlights as many young rookie dmen are. I'm not opposed to seeing how it goes. I just have a hard time with "without a doubt" on most prospects. I actually thought he played more than 3 games. But, that's what I saw in the stats as well. My opinion of his play is not simply based on the fact he scored 3 goals in 3 games with a +1, though. There were intangibles to his play that put him far and away better than most of our D. I don't think we have Corsi or Fenwick on the pre-season, but those stats could possibly point to what I'm referring to. I dunno. I did watch the pre-season games and I think that anyone who did would have a similar opinion. He was quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 @radoran good post, I'm with you. I can't tie overall outcomes on one player, even a team captain, but the reality is the team needs its $8+mil of cap space to pull its weight, and giroux is definitely not doing that right now. and has had some serious consistency problems over the last few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Deleted Aw. I think I would have liked to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 giroux is definitely not doing that right now. I agree with that earlier in the season and i'm not absolving him completely of the issues yet he has played much better of late...but damn he is skating with two snakebitten forwards right now....basically boat anchors...they both have as many goals as you or i and have a combined 5 friggin points...in a combined 24 games so man we have to give G some slack just a gnat's nut hair of some slack but some. If either of his wingers ever wake up i think this team will generate some wins...but right now they are sleep at the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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