JackStraw Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Well statistics in many situations, speak to a players dominance. Particularly forwards. Oh and the bolded, are you speaking of current players or all time. Because we have a problem if its the second... I consider them to be two of the best Swedish players I've ever seen. If you disagree, you're entitled to your opinion. No problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I consider them to be two of the best Swedish players I've ever seen. If you disagree, you're entitled to your opinion. No problem.Ah, So what you're trying to say is, their the most exciting Swedish players to witness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ah, So what you're trying to say is, their the most exciting Swedish players to witness?"Two *of the* best" is a fair statement, I think. If it were "the two best," that's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ah, So what you're trying to say is, their the most exciting Swedish players to witness? I'm saying what I said, I think they are two of the best hockey players Sweden has produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 "Two *of the* best" is a fair statement, I think. If it were "the two best," that's a problem. I didn't say "the two best". I said "two of the best". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I didn't say "the two best". I said "two of the best". "Two *of the* best" is a fair statement, I think. If it were "the two best," that's a problem.uh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I didn't say "the two best". I said "two of the best". No, I know. That was my point. "Two of the best" is definitely defensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 uh.... LOL You'll have to forgive those of us that are both Eagles AND Flyers fans. We're all having trouble coping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 @ruxpin For myself, the Sedin twins watershed moment came during their trip to the finals. Seeing that little puke Marchand facewash Daniel while Henrik stood there in utter fear was shameful. Cowards, the both of them...when the tough get going, the Sedin's get pushed around. Some may think this is unfair, but they are little weasels who don't have the stones to stand up for themselves. That series turned around for Boston when the Sedin's refused to push back....they were the suppsed "leaders" of that squad and might as well have turtled at center ice. The Bruins *knew* they had them, from that moment on. If someone was doing that to me, I would do more than bat their hand away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 On 23/11/2015 at 10:13 PM, JagerMeister said: The Sedins are truly unique specimens, and I dont believe we will witness anything similar again. They have both attained individual success and combine for a pearson, MVP and 2 art ross trophies, which is enough to be in consideration for induction, but do you think thats enough? And most of all, do you think they are deserving of induction? I think they're too boring to be included in the HOF. I don't think anyone outside the NHL has ever heard of the Sedins. Half the time I forget who they are. No star power. No track record of success. Not respected within the league. Maybe if you added both of their stats together they could get in as one player. Okay I'm done slagging the Sedins now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said: I think they're too boring to be included in the HOF. I don't think anyone outside the NHL has ever heard of the Sedins. Half the time I forget who they are. No star power. No track record of success. Not respected within the league. Maybe if you added both of their stats together they could get in as one player. Okay I'm done slagging the Sedins now... What's all this about Mats Sundin? He didn't even have a Pearson, MVP or Art Ross. Not one. First ballot Hall of Famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, radoran said: What's all this about Mats Sundin? He didn't even have a Pearson, MVP or Art Ross. Not one. First ballot Hall of Famer. LOL. It's a slow day today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 On 2015-11-24 at 9:27 PM, JackStraw said: On 2015-11-24 at 9:27 PM, JackStraw said: I consider them to be two of the best Swedish players I've ever seen. If you disagree, you're entitled to your opinion. No problem. I consider them to be two of the best Swedish players I've ever seen. If you disagree, you're entitled to your opinion. No problem. I don't have either one of them in my top 5....my top 10 1)Nicklas Lidstrom 2)PeterForsberg 3)Mats Sundin 4)Daniel Alfredsson 5)Kent (Magic Man) Nilsson 6)Daniel Sedin 7)Borje Salming 8)Henrik Zetterberg 9)Henrik Sedin 10)Nicklas Backstrom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 On 1/29/2016 at 6:37 PM, jammer2 said: I don't have either one of them in my top 5....my top 10 1)Nicklas Lidstrom 2)PeterForsberg 3)Mats Sundin 4)Daniel Alfredsson 5)Kent (Magic Man) Nilsson 6)Daniel Sedin 7)Borje Salming 8)Henrik Zetterberg 9)Henrik Sedin 10)Nicklas Backstrom No glaring omissions, my list would be very similar. Although, I find it rather untypical of you to rank Daniel Sedin ahead of Henrik when most would do the exact opposite, lol. I think they should just be ranked the same. Or one over the other by one placement. Because they really are identical to each other in every aspect of the game, just that they both prefer different roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 2 hours ago, JagerMeister said: No glaring omissions, my list would be very similar. Although, I find it rather untypical of you to rank Daniel Sedin ahead of Henrik when most would do the exact opposite, lol. I think they should just be ranked the same. Or one over the other by one placement. Because they really are identical to each other in every aspect of the game, just that they both prefer different roles. You are right, they are very similar, offer a lot of the same thing. I rank Daniel ahead of Henrik for one reason.....he burys the biscuit more often. Henrik has never scored 30 goals and Henrik has 4 season of plus 30 goals....and one year of 40+ goals. That breaks the tie for me. Only one real dominant season from both of them, when Henrik had 112 pts and Daniel had 104. If either one made the HOF, I would puke. There has to be some type of penalty for choking when it really matters year after year in the playoffs. The Canucks built their team around them and in many ways, the failed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 @jammer2 Ok, ranking Daniel over Henrik for goalscoring is reasonable even if I disagree.But does it really require him to be ahead of 2 OTHER players when we just discussed them being near identical in every aspect of the game? And this is Henrik Zetterberg (Who is one of the best two way forwards of his generation, with more significant impact in postseason) And Borje Salming (Who played in one of the most difficult eras for defenseman.) We are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 You are right, they are very similar It's like they're twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 2 hours ago, radoran said: It's like they're twins. Identical even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 7 hours ago, JagerMeister said: @jammer2 Ok, ranking Daniel over Henrik for goalscoring is reasonable even if I disagree.But does it really require him to be ahead of 2 OTHER players when we just discussed them being near identical in every aspect of the game? And this is Henrik Zetterberg (Who is one of the best two way forwards of his generation, with more significant impact in postseason) And Borje Salming (Who played in one of the most difficult eras for defenseman.) We are talking about. I could see you being right there, upon further review, I put both the Sedin's below Zetts and Borje....I hated Salming growing up, and it may have carried over to my rankings....lol. Totally agree about Zetts, he is a beast when it matters most, and really, one of the grittiest Euro's ever. I'm almost ashamed I put Zetts below a Sedin. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 4 hours ago, jammer2 said: I could see you being right there, upon further review, I put both the Sedin's below Zetts and Borje....I hated Salming growing up, and it may have carried over to my rankings....lol. Totally agree about Zetts, he is a beast when it matters most, and really, one of the grittiest Euro's ever. I'm almost ashamed I put Zetts below a Sedin. My bad. Also, one more thing. You would be repulsed by the idea of Sedins induction? Why? They exemplify civility and generosity, traits to be admired in Athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Absolute no questions asked dont even check ID at the door first ballot if ever there was one Hall of Famers. Not even a subject of discussion, IMHO. They belong in the Hall. The only question is the lack of a cup but Thornton (and likely Marleau) are in without a cup, so are a million other guys. Personally I like my hockey guys a little tougher but that is not what the game is now, it is skilled forwards who know wha tto do with the puck and let guys like Kassian drag their knuckles over to anyone who lays there hands on them. First ballot HOFers. no debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 okay one more thing. DANIEL: five closest comps according to Hockeyreference.com Beliveau Trottier Alfredsson Mogliny Kurri HENRIK: Five closest comps: Oates Zetterberg Lecavalier Mogilny Gaborik Oof. I think it supports the case a little more for Daniel, maybe takes a bit away from Henrik but I still would go with both. Henriks top 5 were all damn good, his next five help his cause a lot more, Clarke, Geoffrion, Lafontaine, Messier and Goulet. Yeah both first ballot. No question in my mind. As a Wing fan I want to see Zetterberg and Datsyuk in some day but to be as unbias as possible I would go with the twins before the two with the Wings. That was hard to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, yave1964 said: okay one more thing. DANIEL: five closest comps according to Hockeyreference.com Beliveau Trottier Alfredsson Mogliny Kurri HENRIK: Five closest comps: Oates Zetterberg Lecavalier Mogilny Gaborik Oof. I think it supports the case a little more for Daniel, maybe takes a bit away from Henrik but I still would go with both. Henriks top 5 were all damn good, his next five help his cause a lot more, Clarke, Geoffrion, Lafontaine, Messier and Goulet. Yeah both first ballot. No question in my mind. As a Wing fan I want to see Zetterberg and Datsyuk in some day but to be as unbias as possible I would go with the twins before the two with the Wings. That was hard to admit. Rather peculiar rankings by Hockey Reference, Henrik Sedin has the higher PPG. Even then though, if one is marginally superior to the other, then shouldn't they have near identical comps? Hockey Reference is an exceptional site, but some things there are simply inapplicable or useless. As a rather frequent Canucks watcher, I would induct Pavel Datsyuk and perhaps even Henrik before the Sedins if it makes you feel better. In terms of two way game, Pavel Datsyuk is the best two way forward of his generation. 2 of his three selkes were won while he was the fourth highest point producer in each year. Only eclipsed by Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby. That's astounding considering how his defensive game was among the best for forwards, while neither Crosby, Malkin or Ovechkin had an sufficient two way game at the time. IMO, that's a higher peak then the Sedins. All that, and he still maintains a higher PPG in regular season and the playoffs. Now its more difficult to make a case for Zetterberg, but I recall someone on here ( I think ) saying that he was actually the better two way forward and deserved more selke recognition than what he received. Nevertheless, his playoffs transcend that of Datsyuk with a Conn Smythe to add to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: Rather peculiar rankings by Hockey Reference, Henrik Sedin has the higher PPG. Even then though, if one is marginally superior to the other, then shouldn't they have near identical comps? Hockey Reference is an exceptional site, but some things there are simply inapplicable or useless. As a rather frequent Canucks watcher, I would induct Pavel Datsyuk and perhaps even Henrik before the Sedins if it makes you feel better. In terms of two way game, Pavel Datsyuk is the best two way forward of his generation. 2 of his three selkes were won while he was the fourth highest point producer in each year. Only eclipsed by Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby. That's astounding considering how his defensive game was among the best for forwards, while neither Crosby, Malkin or Ovechkin had an sufficient two way game at the time. IMO, that's a higher peak then the Sedins. All that, and he still maintains a higher PPG in regular season and the playoffs. Now its more difficult to make a case for Zetterberg, but I recall someone on here ( I think ) saying that he was actually the better two way forward and deserved more selke recognition than what he received. Nevertheless, his playoffs transcend that of Datsyuk with a Conn Smythe to add to that. There was a Penguin power play in 2008 in which Zetterberg simply killed the penalty pretty much by himself, he left Crosby in stunned silence by the end of the P/K. IMHO Zetterberg won the series on that shift, he demoralized the Pens and lifted the Wings. To me it defined the series. He is a very underrated defensive player but Datsyuk to me is a hair better. Datsyuk when he came into the league was a poor postseason performer and his numbers reflected it but they have certainly picked up since. I guess overall ranking I rank Pavel and the Sedins awfully close with Zetterberg a half a step behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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