Samifan Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I realize he has had a difficult year but the more I watch him the more I am starting to really hate Voracek. Can't seem to accept a pass, untimely lazy penalties, can't hit the net when forced to play the point on the PP. So glad Hak woke up and took him off the 1st line. Maybe he will play better next year when his salary doubles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 That contact is looking really bad tight now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 There was two or three minutes left in the game last night and I am SCREAMING at my television, "Why the hell is he on the ice with a 2-1 lead and the season on the line??!?!??!?!?" I was really expecting an utterly stupid, lazy penalty from him that would be deadly. Or a bumble-[censored] pass at the top of the Flyers zone that went the other way. I have zero confidence in the guy at the moment. I don't hate him, but he needs to get his head out of his [censored], Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 @ruxpin @Samifan Rad and I have discussed this is in various posts but that contract is going to be a killer. No reason for Hextall to make that deal when he did. Hextall makes this deal a yr too early and after one stellar season. This could have the potential to be noose around the Flyers neck for years to come. He is a good player but making elite money... This deal and the umberger deal are the two black marks against Hextall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 16 minutes ago, murraycraven said: @ruxpin @Samifan Rad and I have discussed this is in various posts but that contract is going to be a killer. No reason for Hextall to make that deal when he did. Hextall makes this deal a yr too early and after one stellar season. This could have the potential to be noose around the Flyers neck for years to come. He is a good player but making elite money... This deal and the umberger deal are the two black marks against Hextall. At least Jake has scored in this series. I tend tend to agree on the contract though. Massive overcommit and now yet another contract no one will trade for. If he earns it at all next year, I'd look to trade him while they can. These contracts have to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Jake has struggled mightily this year, I don't know if I feel comfortable projecting this year as the model year of all the years to come though. I'll worry about the contract when it becomes a problem, as it stands right now it is in "the future" . While I do think he and Giroux play well together, their skills sets overlap too much, they need a finisher, i can't see how the GM can't see it too. I also don't think I will judge his or anyone's play based upon what i'm seeing in this series, this group is spent. watching them struggle to exit their zone in the third period last night was both comical and horrifying . They are all gutting this out. I'll hate him when it's time to hate him, right now I just can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: I'll hate him when it's time to hate him, right now I just can't all good point mojo... I really dont hate Jake at all. I think he is a very good play and I hope to hell he finds his groove and becomes that type of player - the one who earns 7M per year. If not, well... his contract will be brutal before we know it and it could be as soon as next year. That is a lot of money to be tied up in a player that career-wise projects to be in the 60-ish point range. The hardest part of this situation is that Hextall did not need to give him that contract. It was based on one superb year and he could have waited another year to see if he could repeat that performance. I know it is a bit taboo to knock Hextall around here but if Jake does regain that one magical year this will be a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I like Jake and will hold off on judging his contract fro now, but I don't like the way he is playing right now. He is not nearly hard enough on the puck. It's the playoffs, you have to be hard on the puck at all times, especially in the middle of the ice, at their blue line. Right now I don't trust him on that stuff, he makes me nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, murraycraven said: all good point mojo... I really dont hate Jake at all. I think he is a very good play and I hope to hell he finds his groove and becomes that type of player - the one who earns 7M per year. Which would be great, but about $1.25M short of his cap hit... 7 minutes ago, murraycraven said: That is a lot of money to be tied up in a player that career-wise projects to be in the 60-ish point range. In the craziness of the "new NHL" the "fiscally responsible" owners have created a situation where that unfortunately is what a $8M player produces. Perry - 62 points Giroux - 67 Getzlaf - 63 Kessel - 59 That said, your point about not needing to make that deal when they made it is a good one. But for me the real problem is what we have seen in this year's playoffs - the Flyers need goals not points. Even with his 62 points, Perry potted 34 goals this season and is a perennial 30+ guy. Kessel has a history of eating doughnuts scoring 30+ including 5 of six years with the sixth being the lockout where he scored 20 in 48. Getzlaf his 30 two seasons ago in addition to being the face of the Ducks franchise and having won a Cup there. Voracek has never scored 24 (caveat for his 22 in 48 during the lockout). Giroux has tickled 28 twice. No other forward making $8M+ hasn't hit 30 in his career. No one. For that matter, no forward making $7.5M+ hasn't hit 30 in their careers. You have to get to Krecji at $7.25M to get someone who hasn't hit 30. The next is Statsny at $7M even. If Voracek was in the $7M range, we wouldn't likely be as concerned. But the Flyers have committed 20-25% of their cap two these two. We've seen what getting an extra $1M or so can do for a team with Datsyuk's deal in Detroit (making an $8.5M paid player into a $7.5M cap hit allowed them to have a Shehean, Larkin or Jurco on the roster). I don't hate Jake. I like him as a player and he seems to be a reasonably good person. I hate the deal. That said, it starts next season and that's when he's going to have to live up to it. I hope he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 21 hours ago, murraycraven said: @ruxpin @Samifan Rad and I have discussed this is in various posts but that contract is going to be a killer. No reason for Hextall to make that deal when he did. Hextall makes this deal a yr too early and after one stellar season. This could have the potential to be noose around the Flyers neck for years to come. He is a good player but making elite money... This deal and the umberger deal are the two black marks against Hextall. Well it looks like they are stuck with him with that contract so i sure hope he gets better next year...or this could be a stinker contract/player who gets exposed in the expansion draft..........and pray he is plucked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, radoran said: I don't hate Jake. I like him as a player and he seems to be a reasonably good person. I hate the deal. That said, it starts next season and that's when he's going to have to live up to it. I hope he does. There is always the expansion draft. They want them to expose like 25% of their salary anyways that would go towards it. The downside is you'd lose him for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: There is always the expansion draft. They want them to expose like 25% of their salary anyways that would go towards it. The downside is you'd lose him for nothing. does he qualify as to be exposed to the expansion draft? I thought I read somewhere he would be protected b/c of the new deal that he will be earning next year.... ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, murraycraven said: does he qualify as to be exposed to the expansion draft? I thought I read somewhere he would be protected b/c of the new deal that he will be earning next year.... ???? Generalfanager isn't showing him as having a NTC or NMC.....so he could be exposed. Jakub Voracek RW 26 $4,250,000 $8,250,000 $8,250,000 $8,250,000 $8,250,000 So i'm hoping he can be exposed.... Edit: That didn't quite paste like i wanted it to but i don't see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Just now, OccamsRazor said: Generalfanager isn't showing him as having a NTC or NMC.....so he could be exposed. Jakub Voracek RW 26 $4,250,000 $8,250,000 $8,250,000 $8,250,000 $8,250,000 So i'm hoping he can be exposed.... and MacDonald! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Here are some potential expansion draft rules: http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/14987657/nhl-gms-preview-potential-expansion-draft-rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 On @King Knut's statement about the contracts: Prepare to lose all your good players and constantly be in rebuild mode. I'm with @radoran in that the contract lengths and numbers around the league are ridiculous. But at this point it is the cost of keeping your best players, because if you don't shell out, someone will. I thought the money and term on Jake's contract were both high and long, but never signing another Flyer to a contract like that is a pipe dream at this point. I'm not worried yet, but I'm cautious. @Nicholas provided a nice visual representation of the Flyers' top scorers scoring trends here: What I see is a nice, even upward trend for Voracek over several seasons leading to last year's career highs (not unlike Schenn's numbers as he matures). This year he fell off a cliff, which can be attributable to any number of reasons. The key is the long, steady increase. It shows that last year was likely not something flukey. It could be his top-end production, but it shouldn't be viewed as an outlier - I point to Belesky a lot, and he's a good example. If you chart his goal totals and run a trend line, last year is significantly above the trend, and every other year is below it - that's the kind of thing that should make you pause. What's most likely from a purely statistical standpoint is that this is a down year and last year is Jake's tops, and he'll settle in somewhere in between the two in the 70ish range. I still don't think he'll be quite worth his pay, @radoran laid out the reasoning better than me, but I'm not overly concerned that his contract will be a boat anchor (at least not immediately) in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 So if i'm reading that right. the most a team can lose is one player in a one team expansion or two in a two team expansion.... First- and second-year pros -- including those playing pro hockey at any level -- will be exempt from the expansion draft. But if they're entering their third year of pro hockey, they're no longer exempt. Teams would have to either protect them or expose them. The total salaries for the players made available by each team in the expansion draft must be at least 25 percent of the previous season's payroll for that team. Daly explained: "The other variation that makes this expansion draft different is we would contemplate having some thresholds based on salary to make sure that the expansion club can be competitive based on the ranges we have in the CBA. Teams would have some obligation to expose a level of salary. And in terms of drafting players, teams would have to draft a certain threshold of salary." So i did a rough calculation as if the cap will rise so they would have to expose 18 million of a 72 million cap....Hhhhhhhmmmm....this could get tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 29 minutes ago, Podein25 said: I like Jake and will hold off on judging his contract fro now, but I don't like the way he is playing right now. He is not nearly hard enough on the puck. It's the playoffs, you have to be hard on the puck at all times, especially in the middle of the ice, at their blue line. Right now I don't trust him on that stuff, he makes me nervous. I don't think he can be hard on the puck, he looks off to me sort of like post Steckel Crosby, He looks oka,y until his fine motor skills are required and he just doesn't have them. He took a big shot on the kisser in game 3 from someone...Wilson maybe ? and has been pretty terrible since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 @radoran I'm not even sure how they would expose around 18 million in salary. Sure Mcdud would count 5 mill. Jake would count another 8.25mill. So that would be 13.25 mill. Not sure were you'd dig the other up with the NMC and NTC untouchable. I guess the 3rd option would have to be Coots(4.3mill) to get them there. So this would/could get interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I don't think he can be hard on the puck, he looks off to me sort of like post Steckel Crosby, He looks oka,y until his fine motor skills are required and he just doesn't have them. He took a big shot on the kisser in game 3 from someone...Wilson maybe ? and has been pretty terrible since. He doesn't look that bad to me, just not good enough. You might be right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Just realized we have a potential get out of jail free card at the end of next season. If he's too much for us and his contract looks to be a problem going forward, Hextall can just leave him unprotected. I'm sure he'll be an attractive leader to step into the prime time and help them reach the salary floor in Vegas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 1 minute ago, King Knut said: Just realized we have a potential get out of jail free card at the end of next season. If he's too much for us and his contract looks to be a problem going forward, Hextall can just leave him unprotected. I'm sure he'll be an attractive leader to step into the prime time and help them reach the salary floor in Vegas! You're late to the party i said that a couple posts back. But they will also have to expose more of their salary up to 25% of it. So by that time maybe 18 mill so where does that come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: So if i'm reading that right. the most a team can lose is one player in a one team expansion or two in a two team expansion.... First- and second-year pros -- including those playing pro hockey at any level -- will be exempt from the expansion draft. But if they're entering their third year of pro hockey, they're no longer exempt. Teams would have to either protect them or expose them. The total salaries for the players made available by each team in the expansion draft must be at least 25 percent of the previous season's payroll for that team. Daly explained: "The other variation that makes this expansion draft different is we would contemplate having some thresholds based on salary to make sure that the expansion club can be competitive based on the ranges we have in the CBA. Teams would have some obligation to expose a level of salary. And in terms of drafting players, teams would have to draft a certain threshold of salary." So i did a rough calculation as if the cap will rise so they would have to expose 18 million of a 72 million cap....Hhhhhhhmmmm....this could get tricky. Jake, Mac, Read, Belly, Vandy That's close to 19 right there. Too much of the rest of the team is not signed through the end of 2017 to know anything further. I think we'd be crazy not to keep Simmer and Coots at their salaries and G has a NMC right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, King Knut said: Jake, Mac, Read, Belly, Vandy That's close to 19 right there. Too much of the rest of the team is not signed through the end of 2017 to know anything further. I think we'd be crazy not to keep Simmer and Coots at their salaries and G has a NMC right? 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: You're late to the party i said that a couple posts back. But they will also have to expose more of their salary up to 25% of it. So by that time maybe 18 mill so where does that come from? Yeah Just realized as I read down. I was writing a response when I got yours. Here it is: Jake, Mac, Read, Belly, Vandy That's close to 19 right there. Too much of the rest of the team is not signed through the end of 2017 to know anything further. I think we'd be crazy not to keep Simmer and Coots at their salaries and G has a NMC right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, King Knut said: Jake, Mac, Read, Belly, Vandy That's close to 19 right there. Too much of the rest of the team is not signed through the end of 2017 to know anything further. I think we'd be crazy not to keep Simmer and Coots at their salaries and G has a NMC right? Belly and Vandy aren't signed beyond next season so they can't be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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